There are Giants & then there are Really Big Giants!
G'day All!
Well I finally got my Gotha from Milsims yesterday & I must say its very nice----but its so small compaired to my Handley Page 0/400.
I always thought the Gothas were really big but I guess its the Strakken models that are the real Giants.
I will take a pic of both together at Wintercon & post over the weekend.
Is it the ARES Gotha?
This has to have been the biggest of the lot!
the Mannersman-Poll Triplane.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2786225...n/photostream/
Just to give you an idea of how big this was, this is one of the wheels!
It was never compleated so we`ll probably never know for sure whether or not this ten-engined monster would have got off the ground.
Last edited by Rabbit 3; 06-08-2012 at 04:55.
As far as German aircraft designations go, G is simply 'grosse' = great. The AEG G.IV is considerably smaller than a Gotha; really not much bigger than the DH4 which had a single, more powerful, engine.
G - Grosskampfflugzeug - Large twin engined types, mainly bombers
R - Riesenflugzeug - "Giant" aircraft - at least three, up to four or five engines
Last edited by Baldrick62; 06-08-2012 at 10:03.
Quick Robert delete this picture before Clipper sees it. For the sake of his Elves.Originally Posted by Rabbit 3
This has to have been the biggest of the lot!
the Mannersman-Poll Triplane.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2786225...n/photostream/
Just to give you an idea of how big this was, this is one of the wheels!
It was never compleated so we`ll probably never know for sure whether or not this ten-engined monster would have got off the ground.
Rob.
I'm sure Clipper's industrious elves could handle a wheel, but what you really need to be worried about is this:
Already looked at it. If it had only flown, I'd be building it. My personal boundary. At least for a while. . .
Clipper lurking, Elves elving . . .
(Imagine whiny voice) But Cliiiipuuuuur!!!!!!
If you build it, weeeeee can fly it!..............
James
James - I think Pflanzer would need what three tables set up for us to turn that monster...be fun trying it!
R
Now I hear it would be fun . . . hmm two days off in a row . . . where's me Elves!
Clipper reaching for his drawing set
Hmmm 165 foot wing span becomes 13.75 inch wing span at 1/144" scale, a wee bit bigger than anything in my collection. Who will join me on this noble quest? Think "Fame," "Fortune," "Fellowship of the Wings!" Maybe an epic movie in our future!? Bring on the Elves! But how many? I await your patronage!
Clipper getting that drifting '70's look in his eyes
Interesting size comparison with a Gotha and an SE 5a. Nudge, nudge.
Elves starting to gather . . .
Interesting size comparison with a Gotha and an SE 5a. Nudge, nudge.
Elves starting to gather . . .
OMG! You are like a computer, draftsman and printer all in one. It's been what? 20 minutes and you've already drawn up full size plans!
You are amaaaaaaazing!
James
I agree with that assessment James...so Clipper...what do you need for support???
Also, I kinda see the basis for a few other later planes...the DOX for the way engines are mounted for example.
I have to make several at a time and I can't hanger many more, they will need homes. Hunter is an easy victim, who else would want one? Send me your best essay, 200 words or less, why you need the big bomber! The elves will decide who the lucky winner be? Clipper looking at 1/2 a dozen . . .
Can our essay, or groveling prose, contain offers of bribes?
Hey I have friends in high and low places. Make your move, negotiations can come later. Construction begins at dawn tomorrow on 6 of them, likely use the lozenge as in the color drawing above, looks cool enough. Will have to guess on many of the details, but hey that's part of the fun! Not to mention I sent the elves to creativity classes this winter, now its payback time.
I already have 3 of the DO-X's in 1/144" from Revell I think it was . . . also have 6 Boeing 314's in 1/144" from Minicraft. I thought making the smaller scale would take up less room, there are just more of them!
What would I do with out all your help, my condition is getting much better . . . Clipper in de Nile - again!
Silly man!You don't turn the bomber, you rotate the tables under it!
James
Of course, of course! Hadn't thought of adding dancing tables to Enfilade!
FYI,
My old retired, but still somewhat calibrated eyes, have noticed a difference in the leading edges of the wings between Clippers and Baldrick62's diagrams??????
James
HMMMM,
Working on loosening up the old typing fingers, trying to remember my college writing class, takes a couple shots of old baldy, places blarney cap on head,
Tap....tap....tap....tap.....tap....sip.....tap....tap.....sip....tip.....tap...sip...tap...sip....tap....sip....sip....sip....sip..tap.sip............sip.....sip.......
James
Well spotted! The widest part of the wings are at the front on Baldrick's and at the back on Clipper's... Come on, own up! Who put the wings on back-to-front?
It was more what was sitting on top of the wheel that I was worried about Balders, but a very good little jest from yourself.I'm sure Clipper's industrious elves could handle a wheel, but what you really need to be worried about is this:
But hey, Clipper is obviously way ahead on this one as well.
Rob.
Clipper your skills are out of this world, I look forward to seeing the finished model, pity I do not have a hanger big enough to house a model that size let alone a games table big enough for a game with that monstor
What became known as the Forssman Triplane, or incorrectly as the Mannesmann (Poll) bomber, was conceived in 1917 as a way to reach the North American continent. The German Navy showed interest in the design and had the entire project moved to the Mannesmann Werke in Koln-Westhoven in spring 1918 and Mannesmann received financing from Deutsche Bank to continue the project.
Construction of the bomber ran into numerable problems due to its size, weight, engine power needed, and because airframe materials were not always available. When finished, the Triplane would have stood as tall as a four story building, with a middle wingspan of 165 feet and a fuselage length of 150 feet. The aircraft would be unarmed, except for the bomb load, and was expected to fly for 80 hours with a crew of four or five, using ten 260 hp Mercedes or Maybach engines paired back to back on the middle wing, and below the fuselage on the bottom wing. With its forty-eight thousand pound fuel load, this would have given it the range and endurance to fly the Atlantic, bomb New York City, and then get back to Germany before the tanks ran dry. Of course, headwinds and assorted other variables may have made it impossible. But in 1918, it appeared to be feasible enough to the German military machine, so its development continued through the summer and fall.
Something for "Homeland Defense" Curtiss Jennys to have a bash at
The illustration I used was a quick screen grab from Wiki Commons however, the image from 'The German Giants' (Putnam, 1988) does show positive wing-tip rake rather than the negative seen in the Wiki image.It was more what was sitting on top of the wheel that I was worried about Balders, but a very good little jest from yourself.
Last edited by Baldrick62; 06-09-2012 at 09:47.
Yes I noticed the wing tip variations. My main source is the same as Zoe's, German Giants. It matches the color sketch and is more aerodynamically correct (meaning it looks faster). Keep up on your typing skills, I find a 3:2 ratio of sips to taps works best for me. Watch out America! (Good thing it cannot reach Arizona!
Clipper cutting . . .
Maybe James, a group of us here in the NW should see if we could sponsor one of these monsters with the idea that it would be the center piece, literally, of some Enfilade 2013! event...Maybe a scenario where it's launched from Germany...intercept over water? If that fails...homeland defense has to take down before it makes it to New York? A bit alternative history, I get that, but it could be a great game none the less...probably could do it within one block of time...if not brought down in the time it take to fly two table lenghts...then move on to the arrival on the Jersey shore....and intercept before visiting the Big Apple?HMMMM,
Working on loosening up the old typing fingers, trying to remember my college writing class, takes a couple shots of old baldy, places blarney cap on head,
Tap....tap....tap....tap.....tap....sip.....tap....tap.....sip....tip.....tap...sip...tap...sip....tap....sip....sip....sip....sip..tap.sip............sip.....sip.......
James
Here's a cool link I have just discovered with some rare pictures! Check out the full article PDF!
https://ortus.rtu.lv/science/en/publ...of+World+War+I
Just catching my breath! Now back to the shop you delightful elves or there will be no chocolate under your pillows tonight! Clipper
Rats! As usual the site files upload thingy refuses to work for me, it will be my first target when this thing gets built . . .
Last edited by clipper1801; 06-09-2012 at 08:29.
In the wilderness of Washington lives a man who loves German bombers of WW1, but alas, was born with three thumbs per hand. This of course makes it virtually impossible for him to utilize scissors, x-acto blades, and glue bottles are completely out of the question. Thus leaving him completely incapable of crafting anything that resembles a sharp stick, let alone a fine model such as those Clipper and his elves have a reputation for making.
But, is having three thumbs per hand cause enough for such an award? Maybe, maybe not. However, consideration of a fine bottle of Asbach-Urault as an exchange from the PNW squadron might entice the elves. For there seems to be some ancient tomes that note that elves do not work for free, and the fey, be they Germanic or Arizonian, delight in the exchange of works of fine craftsmanship. So, members of the PNW squadron, would you be game to this potential exchange? Some of the Rhine’s best for one of Clipper’s best?
Something so fine as this deserves a home here where flying giants are the norm. Said model could be “Lent” to the Pacific Northwest Squadron. What say you men?
(198 words)
https://ortus.rtu.lv/science/en/publ...5/fulltext.pdf
Here is a link the PDF...I also have tried to load the paper into my files...awaiting the approval of the moderator.
Clipper,
A fascinating find. If you're using 'The German Giants' (Putnam, 1988), did you notice the Adlershof R-plane projects at the back, particularly the 'R-Flugzeug von 10000 P.S. Eindecker' with the 20 engines, 140m wingspan and twin-boom fuselage of similar length to a stretched 747 (which only has a wingspan of 68.5m)?
BofB
Last edited by Baldrick62; 06-09-2012 at 09:45. Reason: sp
BALDRICK -
DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT, Distract the man...or his elves. ;-)
"What say you men?"
This man sayeth: I'm game to contribute to the purchase of this monstrosity and a Zep for the use of the gang here in the Great Pacific Northwest!
Clippers efforts should not be in vain!
Who among you has the heart, nay!, the very soul, to sally forth and meet the requirements to bring these beasts to our soggy Aerodrome!
James
Curtiss JN-4s would not have been used; at best, the "home defense" would have been Thomas-Morse S4s with hastily-added overwing guns:Something for "Homeland Defense" Curtiss Jennys to have a bash at
http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/usa/tm_s4.php (I'm dubious about the "1x 0.30-cal." mentioned; I've never seen a pic of one with it, so unless it was a buried mount...) .
Count me in!"What say you men?"
This man sayeth: I'm game to contribute to the purchase of this monstrosity and a Zep for the use of the gang here in the Great Pacific Northwest!
Clippers efforts should not be in vain!
Who among you has the heart, nay!, the very soul, to sally forth and meet the requirements to bring these beasts to our soggy Aerodrome!
James
Tony
JD, as soon as my buddy at PaperModelers finishes his Zep kit's design, I'll start building an L13 to bring to the party too.
I know, it was more an observation on possibly finally having a use for the Shapeways JennyCurtiss JN-4s would not have been used;
I know, it was more an observation on possibly finally having a use for the Shapeways JennyCurtiss JN-4s would not have been used;
"Curtiss JN-4s would not have been used"
Er? Gents? We're talking about scenarios for a monster Airplane that never flew.I know, it was more an observation on possibly finally having a use for the Shapeways Jenny
I think anything that can be put in the air for defence of NEW YORK CITY will certainly qualify for the situation!
Why....I can see the Army Air Corps requisitioning all the U.S. Postal Service Jenny's for the defence of the homeland!
No...Seriously!
It could'a happened!
James ( wakes up from the daydream!)
I'm sure Clipper's industrious elves could handle a wheel, but what you really need to be worried about is this:
No wonder it never flew Indy destroyed it!
Last edited by gully_raker; 06-09-2012 at 23:52.
I will post a pic of my birds later today for your delectation.
Rob.
Hmmm... since I`m the one that made the original post that started this whole thing off I`m beginning to feel a bit like Baron Von Frankenstein.
I`VE CREATED A MONSTER!
If Clipper gets this model finished It will be interesting to see it displayed beside a 1/144 747 model just to get an idea how big this thing actually was.
It seems that some aircraft designers during the later part of WWI were really thinking big.
Not only is there this thing but in Britain there was the Tarant Tabor and Caproni seemed to get a bit carried away with his huge transatlantic Tandem-Wing (or should that be Trandem-Wing) design post war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnGZBhrrlMk
Warning, dont let Clipper see that video clip.
Last edited by Rabbit 3; 06-10-2012 at 04:20.
That thing is a monster,go Clipper
Barry - that is awesome. Wow...these things had to have been a sight to see take off, fly and land. Wow
Not the JN-4s -- they *couldn't* have intercepted this thing; they lacked the speed and ceiling. And that was without guns.
Ah the Trans Aero, I have amassed over 500 pages of documentation on this beastie, did it in 1/144 static and 13" peanut scale in the '70's. A friend did it in CO2 free flight power scale and another did it 36" indoor electric R/C. Sadly my colleague died suddenly and I shelved the jumbo rubber scale for another time. Thanks for the video though, I have never seen them!
Memories . . . Clipper
Frankly, I doubt the Mannesmann-Poll would have flown, much less been effective -- look up "Barling Bomber" for details.
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