Don't give Clipper and his Elves ideas like that Zoe.Originally Posted by Zoe Brain
Who knows where it will end.
Rob.
"Richthofen, der rote Ritter der Luft", 1927, Germany
"Wings", 1929, USA,
"Hell's Angels", 1930, USA
"The Dawn Patrol", 1930, USA
The Dawn Patrol" (Remake), 1938, USA
"Pour le Mérite", 1938, Germany
"Lafayette Escadrille", 1958, USA
"The Blue Max", 1966, USA
"Von Richthofen and Brown", 1971, USA
"The Great Waldo Pepper", 1975, USA
"Aces High", 1976, USA
"Flyboys", 2006, USA
"The Red Baron", 2008, Germany
Don't give Clipper and his Elves ideas like that Zoe.
Who knows where it will end.
Rob.
I voted for "The Red Baron", 2008, Germany and I hope you can forgive me that choice (I know all the criticism and historical mistakes), BUT:
1) I have seen only "The Great Waldo Pepper", 1975, USA , "Aces High", 1976, USA and "Flyboys", 2006, USA from the list so far (maybe YouTube shall help...) and think the fights in TRB are filmed better,
2) The Red Albatros (at least that one) we saw in the movie was constructed by a Polish company and I had a chance to see some shots from behind the scenes - quite interesting,
3) The soundtrack. There are some perfect tracks, like "Friend and Enemy" and "Air battle 1" we use very often as a musical background for our WGF plays.
4) Thanks to the romantic part of the movie I could watch it with my wife, who does not like war filmes at all
You have to treat yourself to the Blue Max. The sountrack by Jerry Goldsmith is also excellent.I voted for "The Red Baron", 2008, Germany and I hope you can forgive me that choice (I know all the criticism and historical mistakes), BUT:
1) I have seen only "The Great Waldo Pepper", 1975, USA , "Aces High", 1976, USA and "Flyboys", 2006, USA from the list so far (maybe YouTube shall help...) and think the fights in TRB are filmed better,
2) The Red Albatros (at least that one) we saw in the movie was constructed by a Polish company and I had a chance to see some shots from behind the scenes - quite interesting,
3) The soundtrack. There are some perfect tracks, like "Friend and Enemy" and "Air battle 1" we use very often as a musical background for our WGF plays.
4) Thanks to the romantic part of the movie I could watch it with my wife, who does not like war filmes at all
Last edited by Willi Von Klugermann; 12-04-2012 at 14:23.
Thanks for info Chris. I had no idea JG was a movie scores composer those days. He IS very good in movie scores...
Last I heard down here re Peter Jackson, was that He was producing a remake of The Dambusters. Filming on the first Hobbit has finished & the world Premier was last week in Welllington
Would have been awesome if He ripped into something like the Red Baron...Less romance, more Dogfights!
Did I say less romance, more Dogfights!
As i understand it Stephen Fry has written the script for the remake of `The Dambusters`, in an interview with him about the remake he talked about the script, certain `Dog` related issues and the soundtrack, in his opinion the film would have 2 pieces of music. the orchestral score and the sound of the Merlins, witch then lead on to his description of the movie trailer witch would be just a blanc screen and with just the sound of the Merlins starting up, take my money now and i`l start queing......
Agree 100%! I still pull it off the shelf now and again and watch it!
Roger that!
Not wanting to get off topic here...but
I was fortunate to see and experience the powerful roar of a P51 at an Armistice Day remembrance last month which I thought was pretty awe inspiring...
Until the Mosquito roared in low over the Dam & the lake.
The sound of that, will be something I will always remember!
Sent a shiver down my spine!
info on "Aces High" (1976) film:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aces_High_(film)
I know Over the Front by Peter Jackson isn't a full length feature film, but it is one of the best aviation films I've ever seen. Lloyd
Merlins do that, amazing soundRoger that!
Not wanting to get off topic here...but
I was fortunate to see and experience the powerful roar of a P51 at an Armistice Day remembrance last month which I thought was pretty awe inspiring...
Until the Mosquito roared in low over the Dam & the lake.
The sound of that, will be something I will always remember!
Sent a shiver down my spine!
I voted for Aces High.
May be over thinking here but in the UK the scars of WW1 in the public memory means all WW1 films have to have sad endings about wasted youth. Not sure if that is just over here but it does mean some of the more gung ho epics leave me cold. Our national memory is date stamped "First Day of the Somme"
I think that its true of films made in France and Germany as well.
The Red Baron being a good German example of the last.
Both WWI and II has left deep scars on all three nations in a way that I dont think our US compatriots really understand sometimes.
"Im Westen, Nichts Neues" by Erich Maria Remarque is, for me, the archetypical story of the Great War.
Best known in English as "All Quiet on the Western Front"
In US terms today... imagine 28 million going off to war, with over 4 million of them killed and 10 million wounded. Even the smallest town has its own memorial.For Australia, as for many nations, the First World War remains the most costly conflict in terms of deaths and casualties. From a population of fewer than five million, 416,809 men enlisted, of which over 60,000 were killed and 156,000 wounded, gassed, or taken prisoner.
If you haven't, read "Three Soldiers" by John Dos Passos. Its very much an American version of "All Quiet On the Western Front", just not quite as elegant, though.
You're probably correct about Americans not quite understanding it, but from my travels in Canada, and visits to England, Australia, NZ I know that it had a profound effect. It seems every little village and town has a memorial of some sort to the soldiers of both wars. It's not like that here, probably because we didn't have the casualty rates you suffered.
An American equivalent would be the memorialization of the American Civil War.
My vote is Red Baron (2008) because first: from all this films I see Flyboys and Red Baron.And I think Red Baron has the perfect actors and great graphic computation. Flyboys has too much patriotism, I think.
The Blue Max for personal reasons. I had the great honor to talk to George Peppard when he was with us. He flew alot the of the aircarft in the movie. I asked him if he flew under the bridge scene and he said no they would not let him do that stunt. He was a lover of WWI airplanes and love to fly them in the movie.
I was born in 1968 and I still feel I have to clear my plate even now. That's the effect of rationing in WWII. My grandparents and parents WILL NOT waste food.
Think about the effect of the Second World War on my parents generation, the missing relatives, the guys with the burns and the amputations and the mental scars you can only see sometimes.
Now go round the country churchyards and village memorials again and notice the ratio of Great War dead to Second War dead.
I make the average about 3:1.
Makes you think doesn't it?
Mike, thanks for that anecdote. I never knew Peppard was an actual pilot much less interested in WWI. Lloyd
Wow, it must be my age because I remember all those films, but for the life of me only have memories of Flyboys. I guess it’s time to order from Netflix to re-fresh my memory...
Born in 1958, less than 4 years after meat rationing finished (4 oz bacon, 19 oz meat per week - if available). Same here. Best to give me small servings, as no matter how big they are, I will always leave a clean plate.
Most people don't realise that rationing got more severe immediately after WWII, nor that it lasted for nearly 10 years afterwards in the UK.
Europe was a mess, and it was thought better that millions should go hungrier rather than letting other millions starve. The long-term problems of agricultural disruption, crop failures due to severe winters, industrial unrest on waterfronts etc all contributed too, leading to greater privations than expected. Rations were also a maximum - sometimes the ration could not be met. Death from starvation was still happening in Western Europe in 1948.
One of the sheets (dyed green) I use for wargaming is marked with Pacman-like symbollic "C"s, showing how many clothing coupons were needed to buy it in 1948.
I can remember signs saying "Export Quality" when young. The good stuff was all for export, to pay off the ruinous war debt - eventually cleared under Margaret Thatcher in the 80's. But no longer illegal to sell domestically.
The 14-18 war cost as much as the entire GDP of the UK from 1814-1913. WWII cost even more, just as accounts were getting square.
Last edited by Zoe Brain; 12-16-2012 at 17:10.
"Aces High" (1976) movie clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy4e0P6DNWw
I'd be careful when making a generalization about a group of people...war affected everyone is some form & fashion. True, American soil hasn't suffered like those of Europe, the Pacific and elsewhere in the world. However, as time marches on, more and more are lost and becomes a distant memory to those still living. Memorials are all that remains to remind us of what happened there. Only those who have stood on those scared battlefields and seen the cemeteries truly comprehend the cost...and know the sacrifice made by all.
But for those that haven't you can get a very good idea from the long lists of names on war memorials in any European town or village, and in a thousand schools, hospitals and churches across the continentOnly those who have stood on those scared battlefields and seen the cemeteries truly comprehend the cost...and know the sacrifice made by all.
Agreed, the memorials I've seen are quite moving. They speak to us across time about the loss that specific community suffered. This is something that would more than likely not be felt on a battlefield.
Agreed, the memorials I've seen are quite moving. They speak to us across time about the loss that specific community suffered. This is something that would more than likely not be felt on a battlefield.
Tough choice in many ways. It intrigues me to realize that this list also includes a couple that I might call the worst of all time as well. The recent Red Baron shocked me as one of the least accurate--in bizarre ways-- things I've ever seen. I still wonder about the early combat scene where the Germans get jumped out of the sun ((was that supposed to be Hawker in the beard?) and, without so much as a dissolve we then see MvR shooting down a 2-seater that supposedly has Brown flying...and runs to the crash site and saves his life. That takes the cake for me.
I actually thought Flyboys did a nice job of plot line and character development, which some of the others don't seem to even try for, but the German Air Force, entirely all red Tripes, felt like a bad video game. Nope--no more quarters in that one!
Some of the older ones are very nice. I envy the UK folks, as the BBC Wings can't be had in the DVD format we can see in N.America.
Last edited by kduke42; 12-19-2012 at 12:25.
Kevin you should be able to "De-regionalise" your DVD player. I did mine.
You just need to contact the Company/Agent marketing it & you should be able to get a code to input that will allow you to play all DVD's.
Input into what? And how?Kevin you should be able to "De-regionalise" your DVD player. I did mine.
You just need to contact the Company/Agent marketing it & you should be able to get a code to input that will allow you to play all DVD's.
I voted for The Dawn Patrol - remake, as this was the very first WW1 air war movie I saw. As a kid I liked anything that had Errol Flynn. Saw Von Richthofen and Brown about the same time and wish I could find it on dvd. Liked elements of The Red Baron, but found Flyboys to be a waste of my money.
not bad: "Lafayette Escadrille", also known as "C'est la Guerre", "Hell Bent for Glory" (UK) and "With You in My Arms" is an 1958 American war film produced by Warner Brothers Pictures. The film starred Tab Hunter, David Janssen and featured Clint Eastwood in an early supporting role.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayet...adrille_(film)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051840/reviews
LafayetteEscadrille00.jpg
You get a code & use the number buttons to input the required code. Good Luck!Input into what? And how?
Rv & Brown should be available from Amazon USA. Thats where I got mine!
I'd say my generation & back probably have a good grasp of the impact of WWII, better than WWI. (Today generations probably don't get EITHER...)
When you look at the amount of casualties & reflect on the fact that essentially almost an entire generation of young men were wiped off the face of the earth, it's pretty chilling.
Mm. Probably so.
Cool info.
I've been home with a sore throat and minor fever the last two days, and while lazing around the house I watched some of Wings. I have to say I was impressed. So much so that I think I'm going to go back and watch it again from the beginning, with no interruptions.
Definately worth watching in its entirity John.
I think I have watched it 3 times now plus extras of my favourite episodes.
Another movie had some air combat at the end was Suzy. Cary Grant, playing French Ace Andre, flew a silver Se5 against some Fokker D.VIIs. In order to film the aerial sequences, footage was leased from Howard Hughes and one scene was directly lifted from Hell's Angels (1930), which had been Harlow's break-through film. A number of aircraft were prominently seen, including Andre's S.E.5 fighter, German Fokker D.VII and Thomas-Morse S-4 fighters as well as a rare Sikorsky S-29-A airliner filling in as a German Gotha bomber.
What about 'today we live', Gary Cooper 1933?
Just got done watching "Aces High"...
The only flaws were the widely mentioned ones with stand in &/or inaccurate aircraft (I had to smile every time a Fokker E.III showed up dueling an "Se.5a" in 1917...) but I could easily forgive those. based on everything else, including some great aerial action & exciting combat, along with the authentic "feel" of the movie.
If you're interested in what it would be like for a new pilot arriving on the front & what life would have been like for these men, you should make the effort to see it.
Great stuff.
`Aces High` is pretty good considering it`s a fairly low budget British-made film from the 1970`s.
The "Eindekker" is the only fairly accurate replica the film makers were able to get hold of and they
had to rely on using any biplane types avilable to them.
The "S.E.5`s" are actually Belgian Stampe trainers that were rebuilt to look something like an "S.E" and the Avro 504 was a non-flying replica that had I think been built for the TV series "Wings" that had been made a couple of years earlier.
The authentic feel is probably due to the script being largely based on the WWI play `Journey`s End` with some additional elements borrowed from flying classics of the period like `Saggitarius Rising` and `Winged Victory`.
Another similar film from the same period thats worth looking at is `Zeppelin`. Michael York in one of his better roles, some very nice model work on the airship and some very authentic looking S.E.5a replicas.
Yeah, one of the reasons I would cut Aces a little slack vs, say, the Blue Max, is because of the timeperiod it was made in, budget, etc, which makes it harder to make that kind of fim. But with what they had, they did a splended job IMO. I was quite taken with what a job they did in potraying the life of a pilot in the era.
i liked very much the "Blue Max" film with a great George "hannibal smith" Peppard
What a shocker
Wow I'm surprised that this thread reached 88 posts before that cheesy flick Gunbus rated a mention!
I'll have to make a point of looking for that one then chaps.
Kyte.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
It's on my Netflix queue (Aces High). I saw a production of Journey's End, the play it was based on, a few months back at the National World War I Museum here in Kansas City. The play was stunning, honestly - at times very funny and at others breathtakingly tragic.
But it's interesting - the play doesn't portray the lives of pilots at all, but rather is set in the front line of the British trenches in the Somme in the days leading up to Operation Michael, the last great German offensive in Spring 1918. I'm very interested in seeing the movie to see what parallels they draw between the lives of the pilots and the poor bloody infantry.
EDIT: And that reminds me. Sort of a weird place to post this, but given that we're coming up on the 100 year anniversary of the Great War and that I live in the same city as the National World War I Museum, consider this an open invitation to anyone coming down to see the Museum to play a game of planes with our gaming group!
wings the british made mini series pure class
Don't do it WingCo, it's on a par with the Ares Sopwith TrirubbishI'll have to make a point of looking for that one then chaps.
Kyte.
The only good thing is the actual gun bus itself
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