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Thread: Mess of The Daring Young Men !

  1. #51

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    Merry Christmas chaps



    Good luck in the new campaign

    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #52

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    Thanks, Dave.
    And the same to you, sir.


    And the rest of you lot as well ...

    Really looking forward to this one.
    It's now been officially Christmas for 4 minutes here.

  3. #53

  4. #54

  5. #55

    Setarius's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies
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    Merry Christmas to the guys I will be shooting at in the New Year.
    And Merry Christmas to the rest of you.

  6. #56

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    Joyeux Noël from my new escaderille to all fellow Bulldogs and Eagles.

  7. #57

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    Merry Christmas to Friend and Foe alike, I hope you always have a soft landing, no gun jams, the luck of the devil and may your God go with you.

  8. #58

    Thumbs up

    Yes the Christmas Truce will soon be over so drink up & make Merry before the reality of the War comes to bite you.
    Best Wishes to all the Pilots who fly Over The Trenches.

  9. #59

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    Over before you know it..........scenario 1 posted as we speak, or I write to be precise.

    Neil
    See you on the Dark Side......

  10. #60

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    Working on recovering my gaming table even as we drink.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  11. #61

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    Merry Christmas all, albeit a rather late greeting - been celebrating with the family and not had access to a computer - quite refreshing for a change About to look at our first mission in the latest campaign - exciting. Best wishes to all for that and in the coming new year.

  12. #62

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    Looks to be a simple quickie: defend or destroy the balloons.

    ...or is it that simple...?

  13. #63

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    Still no sign of me getting the table back yet


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Still no sign of me getting the table back yet
    You need to put your foot down or commandeer the Dining Table, Bed or Floor.

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    You need to put your foot down or commandeer the Dining Table, Bed or Floor.
    We're talking airplanes.

    Use the ceiling!

  16. #66

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    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  17. #67

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    Ready to rock 'n roll, once a certain bunch of little people have gone home Please advise if the set up looks wrong or if there appear to be any glaring errors. Otherwise kick off should be around 7.00 p.m. today. Two BE2c and two Bristol Scouts with seriously impaired firing arcs, against an Aviatik CI, with one gun, not two (following consultation with a knowledgeable member of the drome), a Pfalz EI and a Fokker EIII. Altitude will be played and at the start the CP aircraft are set at altitude 8, the entente at 7. Positionong of the aircraft was done with a D6, for each model, within the limits shown on the set up map. The boundaries of the play area are set to the same as two mats, marked out by shell craters, which I doubt anyone else will pick out
    So, one very nervous rookie by the name of H E Roe is about to try his luck in a Bristol Scout. Ye Gods, can he even fly the thing properly?

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  18. #68

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    Well it looks pretty good to me, especially the balloons I went skip diving and came up with some thick insulation foam and I'm making my balloons out of that. I'm having a lot of problems sealing the stuff, I'm using dilute PVA to seal and fill holes and it's doing neither at the moment. Just on with making the fins which I expect to be the difficult part, there won't be a basket and ropes cause that is way beyond my tolerance level. I just knew you would have some spiffing balloons to go with the spiffing terrain.
    Looking forward to reading the report and good luck to H.E.Roe he might need it.
    Cheers

  19. #69

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    Cheers John. Good luck with the balloon making

  20. #70

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    Looks busy Mike, hope yours goes better than mine did...

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #71

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    Thinned polyfiller painted on and sanded sometimes tworks depending on the foam type


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  22. #72

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Ready to rock 'n roll, once a certain bunch of little people have gone home Please advise if the set up looks wrong or if there appear to be any glaring errors. Otherwise kick off should be around 7.00 p.m. today. Two BE2c and two Bristol Scouts with seriously impaired firing arcs, against an Aviatik CI, with one gun, not two (following consultation with a knowledgeable member of the drome), a Pfalz EI and a Fokker EIII. Altitude will be played and at the start the CP aircraft are set at altitude 8, the entente at 7. Positionong of the aircraft was done with a D6, for each model, within the limits shown on the set up map. The boundaries of the play area are set to the same as two mats, marked out by shell craters, which I doubt anyone else will pick out
    So, one very nervous rookie by the name of H E Roe is about to try his luck in a Bristol Scout. Ye Gods, can he even fly the thing properly?

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    That table looks super great Mike!
    Will look forward to seeing the result.
    wont get to play mine for a while yet due to Qld Holiday.

  23. #73

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    Cheers Baz, well have a great holiday!!! I might be later than I expected myself. Every time I think I'm going to start, something else happens

  24. #74

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    Looks good to go to me.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  25. #75

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    Looks great Mike.
    Hope to get my show on the road this weekend.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  26. #76

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    Did the B.E.2c observers have Lewis guns or just carbines, Mike?

  27. #77

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    Well David, a good question. I haven't had time to find out when the Lewis was first fitted to the RAF BE2c, so I don't know the historically accurate answer. I shall endeavour to establish the facts in due course, but have little doubt in my mind that I'll be beaten to it by multiple members on this site Probably by tomorrow morning That said, I would be surprised if they were not fitted by January 1916, the time of this mission. In any case, for the purposes of this campaign, I have no intention of sending out aircraft on a balloon busting mission without them So the answer, here, whether historically accurate or not, is blo*dy right the observers are using Lewis guns

  28. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    Did the B.E.2c observers have Lewis guns or just carbines, Mike?
    Albatros Productions Centenary Datafile 172 The RAF BE2c At War! (by Paul R Hare) contains a color plate of RAF BE2c 1709 in 1915 with two Lewis guns. And Squadron/Signal Publications' Aircraft Number 123 BE2 in Action by Peter Cooksley has the following text on page 11:

    "Although never intended to carry weapons. the BE2c carried a variety of armament. Most two-seat aircraft carried a single Lewis machine gun for the observer in the front cockpit mounted on pipe-type mounts designed by CAPT L. A. Strange. These mounts became known as “Strange mounts” and often aircraft were fitted with several different mounts in different locations.

    Another type of mounting, which resembled an old fashioned candlestick was also used, and these "candlestick" mounts were also installed in different locations on the fuselage. In this manner, the gun could be moved in flight between several mountings, depending on the direction of the threat."


    I'll take a look at Peter R Hare's Fokker Fodder monograph when I get home from work...

  29. #79

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    Found a reference to a Lieutenant S.W. Caws of Edmonton, Alberta who posted to 10 Squadron after completing pilot training in May 1915. He was KIA while flying BE2c serial 2004 on 21 September 1915.

    This is relevant only because shortly after I found reference to a combat between Alan Duncan Bell-Irving's 7 Squadron BE2c (he was an observer at this point) and an Albatros two-seater the day before Caws was killed. In this combat, in which the BE2's engine was put out of action, Bell-Irving returned fire with both rifle and Lewis gun fire. The Canadian removed the Lewis from "it's simple peg mount" in an attempt to keep the Albatros in his sights, but was unable to return effective fire before the Albatros broke off its attack and Bell-Irving's pilot glided down to a crash landing.

    This seems to corroborate that BE2c aircraft with 7 Squadron were armed with Lewis guns at least as early as September 1915, and there's evidence that "a Lewis gun expert was
    assigned to tour 2 Wing squadrons during April to impart a more systematic approach to 'aiming-off,' based on established theories of fire deflection. Short burst and the idea of traversing fire were also emphasized."

    I'll need to corroborate that last bit, however.

    Edit: RFC Communique No.6 (18-25 August 1915) confirms that the BE2c of LTs Leather & Davis was armed with a Lewis gun on 22 August when they were engaged by a German Parasol-Fokker firing what would appear to be steel-cored bullets.
    Last edited by fast.git; 01-03-2019 at 18:48. Reason: Added info about RFC Communique No.6

  30. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Thinned polyfiller painted on and sanded sometimes tworks depending on the foam type
    Thanks Paul, I put a thin skim of polyfilla on my prototype balloon, but when sanding it smooth went through the polyfilla skin in a couple of places. The substrate foam is so soft that I gouged out quite big chunks of it before I knew it.

    This time I'm using multiple costs of dilute PVA, I'm on the 4th coat and am starting to get a hard shell build up but still with lots of irregularities in the surface from the inherent structure of the foam, my poor original sanding smooth technique and damage from handling because it's so soft.
    Yesterday I bought some powder filler that I shall mix with the PVA to try and get a better result but I don't want to have to risk sanding it. However I don't want to spend too much time on this because I'm keen to shoot them down in flames.

  31. #81

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    Many thanks for the feedback Christopher. No need for me to go further I reckon There you go David, perhaps both Lewis and carbine then

  32. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Many thanks for the feedback Christopher. No need for me to go further I reckon There you go David, perhaps both Lewis and carbine then
    My pleasure.

    I'm considering arming the adversary BE2s with 2 Lewis guns. Limited arcs, to be sure, but one each for pilot and observer.

  33. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    ...So the answer, here, whether historically accurate or not, is blo*dy right the observers are using Lewis guns
    The correct response !

    "He is wise who watches"

  34. #84

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    Question for Mike (or any other more experienced than me) re the BE.2c firing arc(s)

    What card did you use for your mission?

    v1 with a single forward arc
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    or v2 with two forward arcs
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    I assume that for either split arc one must wait one phase to switch from one t'other ? (or longer?)

    Ta very mucha

  35. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Thanks Paul, I put a thin skim of polyfilla on my prototype balloon, but when sanding it smooth went through the polyfilla skin in a couple of places. The substrate foam is so soft that I gouged out quite big chunks of it before I knew it.

    This time I'm using multiple costs of dilute PVA, I'm on the 4th coat and am starting to get a hard shell build up but still with lots of irregularities in the surface from the inherent structure of the foam, my poor original sanding smooth technique and damage from handling because it's so soft.
    Yesterday I bought some powder filler that I shall mix with the PVA to try and get a better result but I don't want to have to risk sanding it. However I don't want to spend too much time on this because I'm keen to shoot them down in flames.
    Here in France you can buy sheets of high density foam called Styrodur which cuts well and has very few craters when cut. Sure there must be an equivalent at B&Q etc8


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  36. #86

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    What card did you use for your mission?
    I used your version two Pete. Would have used version one if I had come across it, but I haven't. Probably didn't look very well. Pretty much every card anyone could want is on here somewhere?

    During the mission the BE2c observers used just two firing positions. For the most part the forward port side. Then towards the end, as they were retiring, the observer in the yellow BE2c switched to the rear starboard side. I make them take three cards to make the switch, plus any delay for a jam, which has to be cleared first.

    You may have noticed I did the same with the Aviatik. Following a chat with Tim Helmut, we agreed that the same would apply to that aircraft and that it would generally only carry one gun. It can carry two, but the evidence suggests this was the exception rather than the rule (Based on photos etc in a Windsock file). Incidentally, I also used the plane card, under the base of the Aviatik, throughout the fighting because I don't have the proper base for it. Worked ok for me this time around, but I'll look into getting a better base later.

    PS Almost forgot - I used the XB deck too. Not the XC. This is according to the list produced by the committee for unofficial aircraft. Don't remember if this makes a great deal of difference!

  37. #87

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    While we are on the subject of armament as my Flieger Abteilung 24 will be facing the French I did some research on the Hotchkiss m1914 MG arming the Morane Saulnier N. The Hotchkiss was fed with 24 round ammunition strips, with each one giving two 2 second bursts. The pilot then had to remove the strip, retrieve another from the cockpit, feed it into the gun, charge the weapon and resume firing.

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    I game terms the Hotchkiss armed Moranes get two cards of fire, then two to reload, then another two cards of fire, etc. A jam would still take three cards to remedy as the pilot would have to clear the cartridge case out the breech. Roland Garros in his Morane Parasol only carried three strips of ammunition, or about 75 rounds! The Morane N carried 10 strips - 240 rounds.

    RFC Morane did not have that problem as they used either the Lewis (early version) or a Vickers gun (Mark V).

  38. #88

    Default OTT DYM - Vizefeldwebel Rudolf Rath, Flieger-Abteilung 24 (Carl Brisgamer)

    The following is a narrative primer for my Over The Trenches - Daring Young Men Campaign. I hope you enjoy the read.

    Johannistal, Berlin
    27 Dezember 1911

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    As he approached the airfield, fourteen-year-old Rudi Rath was as excited as he could ever remember. He was visiting his Opa in Berlin, who ran a metal working shop in the Friedrichsfelde to the east of the city. His father had sent him intending that Rudi should take up an apprenticeship with the business. But today his grandfather had declared there was no work to be done. A man of few words, he told his grandson to dress warmly against the winter cold and within the hour they were riding the Straßenbahn south across the Spree.

    Alighting from the carriage, Rudi and his grandfather walked for another fifteen minutes over the frosty ground as part of the large crowd converging on the Flugplatz Johannistal, Germany’s first airfield that had only commenced operation in September 1909. Rudi’s heart was pounding as he came to the realization his grandfather had brought him along to watch a display by the most daring aviators of the day. Rudi could scarcely believe his good fortune. Having read a poster about the event he had mentioned the display to his Opa a few weeks earlier, but the old man had not said another word to him about it.

    At the gates his Opa paid the sixty-pfennig entry price, before he and Rudi pushed their way through the throng of spectators from all parts of Berlin and the Reich, who had come to see these marvellous new flying machines put through their paces. “Danke Opa, vielen Dank,” was all Rudi could say as he moved towards the edge of the field. Already he could see the tall timber pylons that marked the corners of the field, and the tower where officials could watch the proceedings, measuring the speed, altitude and endurance of the aircraft.

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    Now Rudi had reached the timber fence marking the closest any of the spectators could approach the action. There he heard for the first time an aero engine cough and splutter to life. Raising his hand to shield his eyes from the sun that was shining in the clear blue winter sky, Rudi could see a monoplane machine preparing for take-off. Two mechanics were holding the wings as the pilot, dressed in a fur lined coat and wearing a leather helmet and goggles, ran up the engine until it produced a throaty roar. Rudi watched as the aircraft was guided further out onto the field by the ground crew, then found himself holding his breath as it picked up speed and took to the air! It climbed to a height of several hundred metres before banking this way and that, performing a series of figure eight manoeuvres high about the field.

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    “Who is that pilot?” Rudi asked, unable to tear his eyes away from the wondrous spectacle.

    Doch Junge, es gibt Anthony Fokker,” replied a man standing to his left, pleased at the opportunity to share his knowledge, “Der fliegende Holländer.”

    “Fokker…” repeated Rudi watching transfixed as the monoplane banked and dived and swooped through the air.

    Rudi barely said another word for the rest of the day as more machines took to the sky. It was almost dark and getting quite cold by the time he and his Opa trudged back along the street to their tenement apartment. It was only then that Rudi broke the silence.

    “I want to fly Opa,” he said with a determined look.

    Rudi’s grandfather regarded the boy for a moment before the hint of a smile crinkled his face.

    “I believe you do,” he said, before adding, “If I were your age, I would probably want to do the same.”

    “Then it is decided,” Rudi affirmed, thrusting his hands deep into the pockets of his coat against the chill. “One day I will be a pilot, and I will fly those machines, just like Fokker and the others.”


    ********************

    Stenay, Occupied France
    27 Dezember 1915

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    The train lurching to a halt and the loud whistle blast woke Vizefeldwebel Rudolf Rath from his dreams of Johannistal. He sat up and looked out over the rail platform in the village of Stenay, as troops wearing grey uniforms and the distinctive Prussian Pickelhauben disembarked the carriages and formed up into their companies. In the window he could see the reflection of the winged propeller insignia on his own uniform, signifying he was a qualified pilot.

    Rudi Rath was no longer the young boy who had witnessed his first flying display in the skies over Berlin, or even the young man who had reported to the Fliegertruppe at Flugplatz Döberitz in January 1915 aged just seventeen. Even as other student pilots crashed or crashed-out of training, Rudi had performed well and qualified on C type two seaters. With Rudi’s father away at the front with his reserve regiment, it was his grandfather who had made the 60 kilometre trip from Berlin to see the graduation parade, and Rudi had been proud to show his Opa his wings and his Unteroffizier rank insignia.

    He had been hoping for orders to report to the front immediately like many of his comrades. Would it be the Eastern Front to fly against the Russians, or off to the West where trench lines now snaked from the Swiss border to the sea? For Rudi however, there would be no immediate call to action. He and a select few had been chosen for further training on the new Fokker Eindecker. Despite his initial shock at missing out on the fighting, Rath’s enthusiasm for the Fokker monoplane with its forward firing synchronised machine gun soon swept away any reservations. The Fokker was not an easy aircraft to fly, but Rath seemed to be able to cope with the type’s inherent instability better than most.

    Qualifying as a Fokker-Flieger, newly promoted Vizefeldwebel Rath was assigned to Flieger-Abteilung 24 in France where he was to fly a Fokker as escort to the unit’s artillery and observation aircraft. Before he left one of his instructors warned him about over-confidence.

    “You fly well Rath,” he had said, “but the Franzmänner are no dodos. When you get to the front listen to your experienced comrades, keep your eyes peeled, watch your back and don’t fly straight and level for more than a few seconds. If you do those things you may live long enough to make the Kaiser’s investment in your training worthwhile.”

    Climbing down from the train to the platform, Rath pulled on his greatcoat against the bitter cold. This village was the last stop before his new airfield at Cunel - where his war would really begin.

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    Last edited by Carl_Brisgamer; 01-08-2019 at 15:24.

  39. #89

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    Interesting note about the Hotchkiss, Carl. I've yet to experiment with limited ammunition for any situation; might have to give it a try.

  40. #90

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    In game terms the Hotchkiss armed Moranes get two cards of fire, then two to reload, then another two cards of fire, etc. A jam would still take three cards to remedy as the pilot would have to clear the cartridge case out the breech. Roland Garros in his Morane Parasol only carried three strips of ammunition, or about 75 rounds! The Morane N carried 10 strips - 240 rounds.
    Sounds reasonable to me. Personally I've only just got round to using altitude in my games. I guess the use of limited ammo is the next thing on the list! - So much to remember for an old git like me

    Good luck Rudi Rath! Yes, I did enjoy this primer Carl, very much. The first part reminded me of the very reason I took an interest in this subject myself. Those amazing men and women in their early "flying" machines. Crazy, brave, lot Thanks for sharing.

  41. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    ...What card did you use for your mission?
    To me those cards are not quite right, based on someones very early stab at making up arcs for a movable gun yet apparently accepted as fact ! The 'red dot' isn't centred on the gunner and may not even be centred on the peg, depending on how you've set the model up.
    I'm not sure of the origin of the original, or, how the rear arc is translated but if every other model can fire over the tail (and the BE2 could - I've seen pictures) then why is there such a huge a split arc ?! If it's because of separate side positions to the rear of the observers cockpit then the respective arcs should at least be able to fire alongside the fuselage & out to the wingtip shouldn't it ?
    The small front arcs do make sense due to the restricted los through the wires etc but it doesn't take note that there was a forward arc over the prop at targets above (according to McCudden).

    A lot will depend on the set up I suppose - I know which one I'll be going with ..!


    How's this for a gunners eye view !








    So pay yer money and take your choice, if I had the skills I'd draw one up for you... Large hint to anyone who can !

    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...2304-BE2c-card
    Last edited by flash; 01-08-2019 at 10:43.

    "He is wise who watches"

  42. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    The following is a narrative primer for my Over The Trenches - Daring Young Men Campaign. I hope you enjoy the read.
    Most enjoyable. Thank you for sharing!

  43. #93

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    I have the 4 positions on my BE2c card as my observer sits in front. To move front left to front right the gun ahd to be removed from one mount and moved over. If I was a pilot and they fired a Lewis gun near my head the observer would get a back hander. So for me the 4 arcs will remain.

    Neil
    See you on the Dark Side......

  44. #94

    Setarius's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies
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    Dale
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    Gentlemen,

    It is with great sadness for me to announce that I am going to have to withdraw from the DYM Campaign due to health reasons. Recently I was diagnosed with gallstones, possible liver problems, and possible colon problems, turns out I have colon cancer. On top of all that I was also diagnosed with acid reflux disorder.

    I will be on here keeping in touch with everyone and reading the AARs.

  45. #95

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    Dale...what can I say. My thoughts and prayers with you my friend. Wishing you well.

    Neil
    See you on the Dark Side......

  46. #96

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    Dale, what a triple-whammy
    So very sorry to read this.
    My thoughts will be with you, hoping for a full recovery.

    Hang in there, my friend.

  47. #97

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    Very, very sorry to hear this Dale. I wish you all the very best and hope and pray things can be sorted out for you quickly. Take care and glad you will be keeping in touch. Its been a pleasure being a Bulldog with you.

  48. #98

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    Dale, I'm so sorry to hear this, hang in there mate and all the best for a full recovery. I will surely miss your game reports but your recovery is far more important.
    Take care.

  49. #99

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    Get yourself sorted tout suite Dale, keep the nurses on their toes & keep in touch, the least we can do is provide some minor entertainment for you,
    All the best, Dave.

    "He is wise who watches"

  50. #100

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    Dale so sorry to hear that you are unwell. My thoughts are with you and your loved ones for a speedy recovery.
    Paul


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

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