The 3D printer might choke on this:
The 3D printer might choke on this:
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
I kinda of like it! The Austria Oeffag!
Wow, Mike, thanks for the submissions, though I wasn't trying to solicit any such contributions. I will respond in more detail in a subsequent post, but I wanted to first show how each of those first-passes came out when applied to the plane model. (No one should be surprised by small problems in this, especially since Mike didn't have a mechanism of visualizing the results and making corrections!)
That's still some impressive work, Daryl.
Wow. Those turned out a lot better than I expected. The lozenge and the swirl planes actually don't look too bad at all. I will need to adjust the crosses.
I was happy to contribute, and it was a lot of fun to try out the process. However, I will understand if you don't want to use them.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
I would like to make it possible for artists with medium to expert skills in Photoshop or Gimp to contribute or make their own "skins" for high-definition full-color planes, but there are a lot of things to think about:
- Maybe it's a way to collaborate and make new skins available to the general public? Or maybe it's just a way to create and print your own with no way of "publishing" a new skin for others to buy?
- The process of putting things into Etsy and Shapeways and tying them together cannot be automated and it's kind of a pain. It might take an hour or two per skin once all of the steps are taken into account, even after all the files are uploaded.
- Currently Shapeways only allows you to "print your own" with this material, other than going through the whole Etsy/Shopify mess.
- I'd like to make enough (modest) margin to cover my expenses for test prints and some of the source materials (like the magazines I just bought on five-color French camouflage). Maybe a volunteer contribution solution like Patreon could work? kampfflieger has a whole subscription service running, for instance.
- Creating a good texture requires a feedback loop where you can see how it looks on the plane and make adjustments. It is impossible to get the details just right working only in 2D. That means either sharing the 3D model or writing some sort of viewer web page where you select the model and submit the texture and it shows you the result. (Technically possible but not easy.)
- If I make a 3D model generally available, someone on the internet could load it into Shapeways with a slightly smaller markup (or zero) and undercut my current models, making my current shop moot. Or publish it to Thingiverse, etc. Maybe sharing it on a case-by-case would be safer?
- I've gotten better at unwrapping the textures and I will continue to learn new tricks, so there isn't a uniform way of doing things that is the same from one model to the next. Some textures are 2048x2048, others are 4096x4096. Some require you to mirror-image things on the undersides; some do not. Some require you to load certain fonts for the fuselage or wing lettering.
- I would want the starting textures I supply to have layers for the basics: common camoflages (e.g. 4-color and 5-color lozenge), outlines, labels, fuselage text, default colors, etc. Artists could start with those and customize from there. That means more work up-front (for instance, I hadn't yet done the lozenge camos for the Albatros D.III).
- Folks who contribute skins should get credit and/or rewards for their efforts.
- I want to be careful about copyright. For instance, when creating the "Smoking Skull" logo for the Schädel D.VII, I worked backwards from a photograph in Photoshop & Inkscape rather than just "borrow" the work of the artist in "Jasta Colors" by using a scanner. And I've been avoiding fonts that are labeled "not for commercial use". I don't want any legal nonsense popping up over this little hobby.
- While someone might really want a Triplane in bright magenta and neon green (and more power to them), I wouldn't want to add that to my shop. I tend to like historically-plausible paint jobs.
I mention all this (and do so publicly) because it generate some creative solutions to these challenges.
It may also be the case that the population of artists who would want to work on this is so small I can just work with them one-on-one (e.g. OldGuy59) and not worry about a general-purpose solution.
Mike and Daryl. Those turned out pretty awesome looking.
Very impressive gentlemen.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
While I don't really have a solution to these issues, I love the concept so I'll throw my thoughts in:
I'm a big fan of public collaboration, especially in a niche game like this. Official planes are already hard enough to get. Another wall to unofficial ones wouldn't do anyone any favours, IMO. On the other hand, I recognize the amount of work that has to go into doing this type of project, and I'm not against people getting compensated for their hard work, hobby or not.Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact
Not having any idea what the steps are, I can't really offer any advice or suggestions here. Would a guide on how to do it be practical if someone wanted to go through the effort themselves?[*]The process of putting things into Etsy and Shapeways and tying them together cannot be automated and it's kind of a pain. It might take an hour or two per skin once all of the steps are taken into account, even after all the files are uploaded.
[*]Currently Shapeways only allows you to "print your own" with this material, other than going through the whole Etsy/Shopify mess.
"Printing your own" would probably be fine. We already have to jump through hoops to get planes... the payoff here is great for unskilled schlebs like me who can't paint.
I'm 100% for contributing $$$ to cover margins and compensate time for this work. I'm never against paying someone to do something I can't do myself. Patreaon is one avenue... however I will say, personal preference, I HATE subscription services. There's two huge issues I have with them (Patreaon in particular):[*]I'd like to make enough (modest) margin to cover my expenses for test prints and some of the source materials (like the magazines I just bought on five-color French camouflage). Maybe a volunteer contribution solution like Patreon could work? kampfflieger has a whole subscription service running, for instance.
1. Rarely do I actually want or have a use for everything that's being put out. This translates to paying a monthly subscription when only 10% of the content is actually wanted or useful to me. I encounter this a lot in the tabletop RPG realm, and it's annoying.
2. It's not uncommon for Patreon creators to go months radio silent or without creating anything. I've cancelled numerous subscriptions before because there's been little-to-no progress for extended periods.
I don't really like what Patreon (and frankly, kickstarter) have become. They were never intended to be business fronts, but that's how they're treated now.
Personally I'd much rather just pay the creator for the individual things I want. For example, if you had a DVII I liked, I'd rather just pay you the $$$ for the DVII rather than subscribe to something that gets me the one plane I want and six I don't.
Again, all this is just my opinion and personal preference.
I understand the reluctance to do the first, the second would be awesome, but I also understand the difficulty in doing so.[*]Creating a good texture requires a feedback loop where you can see how it looks on the plane and make adjustments. It is impossible to get the details just right working only in 2D. That means either sharing the 3D model or writing some sort of viewer web page where you select the model and submit the texture and it shows you the result. (Technically possible but not easy.)
Any thoughts of selling the 3D models themselves without textures? That would solve this one particular issue. There's quite a few shops that make STL files for 3D gaming terrain, for example, and sell those models.
This is going to be a risk unless you make sure you 100% control the entire production process.[*]If I make a 3D model generally available, someone on the internet could load it into Shapeways with a slightly smaller markup (or zero) and undercut my current models, making my current shop moot. Or publish it to Thingiverse, etc. Maybe sharing it on a case-by-case would be safer?
Understandable. Diligence will save you here.[*]Folks who contribute skins should get credit and/or rewards for their efforts.[*]I want to be careful about copyright. For instance, when creating the "Smoking Skull" logo for the Schädel D.VII, I worked backwards from a photograph in Photoshop & Inkscape rather than just "borrow" the work of the artist in "Jasta Colors" by using a scanner. And I've been avoiding fonts that are labeled "not for commercial use". I don't want any legal nonsense popping up over this little hobby.
Unfortunately you'll have zero control over this for skins anyone submits to you. You'll have to operate on good faith that the submitter did not violate any copyrights making their skin.
This is where having some mechanism for people to do their own skins and print them themselves would be a bonus.[*]While someone might really want a Triplane in bright magenta and neon green (and more power to them), I wouldn't want to add that to my shop. I tend to like historically-plausible paint jobs.
For example I'd love to do a custom squadron in a fictitious paint scheme.
Anyways just my $0.02.
Thanks for the feedback -- it helps!
We'll see how this goes into the 3D modelling software...
It needed a LOT of fiddling.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
many would be happy just making available what has already been released.
Mike 'OldGuy59' and I have been working together to bring this paint scheme to life, and I'm happy to present:What about this plane?
Oh wow ! That is one hell of a scheme.
Never Knowingly Undergunned !!
Oh my! That will be one sharp plane.
OMFG! Put that on the table, and watch the gawkers flock in!
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Impressive....Most impressive!
As I said on another 3D Colour Print thread...
WANT!
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Can you please do this guys aircraft? He's a German WW1 Jewish ace...I believe that is a D7...
thank you Jerry
Here the aircraft is done up w\for the game... I'm going to redo the base nice I get some adapters for the post.
Last edited by squigoth; 12-19-2021 at 18:44.
Nice Jerry! I would buy one and add it to my air force!
I can't see how I can refuse to buy that one either Tim.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Please let us know as soon as this is available Daryl.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
I've just ordered 8 of these 3D printed planes in the last few days- this new plane would have to wait a while, even if it does get added to the list.
Anyway, it looks like a standard factory finish with just a yellow fuselage band, thinly edged in black. I can probably paint this one myself, once I find out who the pilot is...
Last edited by Flying Helmut; 11-10-2021 at 15:20.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Hi Jerry, do you have any more pictures or documentation on this plane? Does this painting show up in one of the Herris books, for instance? I've only managed to find this:
< Photo of two-seater with similar markings. >
Last edited by ReducedAirFact; 02-19-2022 at 17:08.
I really like this scheme. If you ever get round to releasing this pilots Fokker D.VII Daryl I will be placing another order.Can you please do this guys aircraft? He's a German WW1 Jewish ace...
thank you Jerry
It's done. The hardest part was that I had not yet done a D.VII with five-color lozenge camouflage on the fuselage. If anyone has some relatively definitive information on the pilot or unit, please let me know. The online sources I've found have only said "pilot and unit unknown".
I am buying that Fokker D.VII.
If the pilot is unknown, how do we know he was an "Ace"?
Any further info, Jerry?
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
I can't find anything to match this profile, except
I can't find this photo in any of the books/magazines I have, and the Star of David looks suspiciously clear and bold.
The Allied roundel on the detached wing @ left suggests the photo was taken while the D.VII was in Allied hands post-War.
Maybe it was repainted for use in post-War aviation films?
Note that the colour profile above is not signed by the artist - it is likely a composite, and is possibly yet another bastardisation from the hopelessly inaccurate "Rise of Flight" pantheon.
I have also found these on line...
I don't think this is a genuine German WW1 Fokker D.VII scheme at all, but I'm more than willing to be proved wrong!
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Here's an interesting bit, from the flying machines . RU site:
There's a thread about one on the Aerodrome site:At various times during the war single-seat fighters undertook bombing operations. Shown here is Captain F. O. Soden of No 41 Squadron, RAF, with Leutnant Auer's Jagdstaffel 40 Fokker D VII which he forced to land at Ooteghen on 28 October 1918. This aircraft was fitted with wooden shelf racks on either side of the fuselage enabling eight Wurfgranaten 15 to be carried. These were suspended upside down by a length of wire through their noses, as was normal on CL category machines used by the Schlachtstaffeln. Withdrawal of the wires released the grenades which had ordinary percussion fuse
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=48813
Said plane was photographed post-war in USA hands.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
If Gerard wants an airplane for a World War I Jewish ace, any of Werner Voss's airplanes should do.
Auer's Jasta 40 bird is well documented, with the Star of David in white on the black fuselage; but this "new" profile's Star of David on a light coloured fuselage band, reproduced on the upper surface of the fuselage as well, seems to be a direct copy of the photographs of the two-seater machine shown above.Here's an interesting bit, from the flying machines . RU site:
There's a thread about one on the Aerodrome site:
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=48813
Said plane was photographed post-war in USA hands.
Karl
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
I will admit, looking at the photos on the aerodrome site, the field the star is on looks awful bright, compared to the rest of the photos.
If it's a PS job, it's very well done, save for the difference in contrasts. Esp. the one with the men standing in front of it.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Just spotted something here myself. I was thinking that the shadow of the arm of the chap loading the aircraft was very good, until I looked at the direction of the shadows from the struts. The shadow of the arm could not be on the side of the aircraft when the Sun is behind the aircraft.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
But the shadow of the rightmost chap is also present on the plane and on the grass behind his legs, and the shadows on the cabane struts look good. Perhaps the lower wing lighting is misleading because it's reflective and is bouncing the light sky into the camera, except where obscured by the main struts?
I think the star on the plane with the tail stripes is of a different proportion than the one on the other plane. Also interesting that the one plane had its cross repainted. Looks like the light colored band the star is on is the original splotchy camo color.
Yes, to me the strut "Shadows" are reflections, not true shadows.
I don't have a problem with the photos of the two-seater and the crewmen - it's the Fokker D.VII which I think has had it's fuselage band and Star of David repainted/added as an afterthought, for the American "market", using the two-seater's historical marking as the idea for it.
With no details about the pilot, and not even the unit, I won't be accepting that a "Jewish Ace" flew it in action, so I won't be buying the model (except, perhaps, in order to repaint a historical scheme over the fuselage band).
Last edited by Flying Helmut; 11-12-2021 at 04:44.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Indeed, I'm treating this one as "speculative", or even "fantasy". Which is okay, as long as someone wants to fly it. There are plenty of historical paint jobs to work on. (At least, "historically accurate as best we can determine with the information we have at hand." Seems like new color information comes out constantly.)
Next up (I think): two important planes that Nexus & Ares never produced... The Pfalz D.XII and the Sopwith Dolphin.
Personally, I think the plane is awesome! Even if it isn't historically correct I will put one on the table. It looks cool and fun! That is what the game is about. Having fun! I have several "fantasy" paint schemes in my air force. And I love flying them.
Pfalz D.XII! YEAH! I want two! One to play with and one to keep mint in the box!
Pfalz D.XII !
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Pfalz D.XII!
Seems this D.VII scheme has been discussed many times in the past, though there is nothing conclusive about it. I wonder why the star is shown on a yellow field rather than white, didn't yellow show dark in some old photos ? I also don't think the illustrator made the star thick enough, looks smart though and appears to be a genuine scheme pictured after capture/armistice at Romorantin in France. Note the guns are missing.
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/...-german-cross/
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...t=48813&page=2
Last edited by flash; 11-13-2021 at 04:24.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
I would have assumed white from the photo also.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Chromium-based yellows showed dark (almost black) on German orthochromatic camera film...I don't know enough about other countries' chemical developer agents to decide whether or not they might appear similarly dark.
What strikes me is the bold, strong, clean lines of the fuselage band and symbol - they look freshly-painted to me.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Since Jagdstaffel 40 got a mention (and everyone likes stripes, right?), I would like to submit a commander of Jasta 40, Helmut Dilthey's, Albatros D.V to consideration for a model. I'd love to buy it!
Seconded!
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
That is one nice looking plane.
Never Knowingly Undergunned !!
Tempted Chris?
A couple questions on Dilthey's D.V. One source shows the upper-wing crosses overlying medium-green squares of the same color used on the fuselage. 1) Can anyone verify the green under-squares are correct? 2) Were the same green squares used on the lower wings under the crosses?
I think it looks great! No one can really answer your questions so I would leave it as that is the current consensus. He painted it to match the Saxony flag, so maybe the squares on the wing - which are definitely darker than white - are faded or it's just the glare?A couple questions on Dilthey's D.V. One source shows the upper-wing crosses overlying medium-green squares of the same color used on the fuselage. 1) Can anyone verify the green under-squares are correct? 2) Were the same green squares used on the lower wings under the crosses?
But I wonder if maybe he painted the squares yellow, to match the flag of the Free State of Saxony? Probably not, but still interesting:
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