Sails of Glory, do you plan on playing?

[David Manley]

For those fans of Aubrey-Maturin, at the end of Master and Commander there is a recounting of two smaller SOL fights, each with only 4-6 SOL a side (going off of memory here), that occurred in real life.

IIRC these (or at least one of these - I admit I've not got as far through Patrick O'Brien's books by now as I should have done) were based on the battles in and around Algeceiras in 1801. Cracking battles, and about the smallest decent SoL battles you can find. I've used them as the basis for a few demonstration and participation games at shows over the years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Algeciras_Bay

[David Manley]

From what I remember from that wargaming phase (my copy of WSIM is in the attic, on the top shelf), it was mostly a doctrine thing, with a little performance added. Basically, SOL were rather slower, and less weldy than frigate, so if they operated solo or in pairs, they were not as effective as a line of them, and a well handled frigate could concevably manuver to repeatedly rack fire down the bows or sterns of the SOL, avoiding the broadsides themselves.

Thats not right. The line of battle evolved for several reasons, but primarily:

a) command & control - the "mob" approach to naval tactics in the early part of the Dutch wars game admirals almost no control over their fleets; linear deployments were far easier to control)

b) maximising firepower - operating in line minimised the opportunity for friendly ships to block the line of fire. There was no advanced fire control in the age of sail (after the first broadside the din of battle meant this was not possible on a crowded gun deck) and in general the closest atrget would be engaged, so if a friendly vessel was closer than an enemy the options were to hold fire, or fire on a friend;

c) protecting the bows and stern - but protection against other ships of the line, rather than frigates. 5th and 6th rates were not a real threat for ships of the line unless they were at a serious disadvantage (e.g. dismasted, grounded or limited by severe weather such as Pellew's action against the Droits de l'Homme, where 4 frigates eventually took down a French 74 which coiuldn't use its lower gun decks due to the high sea state). In fact, there were often "gentlemen's agreements" in fleet actions that SoLs would not fire on frigates as long as the small fry left the bigger ships alone. In one action (I forget which) a frigate captain decided to "have a go" and was rewarded for his gutsy move with a broadside from the SoL he had fired at, and that broadside completely dismasted the frigate and shattered the hull. Yes, frigates were often (but not always) more handy than SoLs, but not to the point where they had any kind of advantage over them.

This plus the doctrine that the line must not be broken (note that Nelson violated this with great sucess)

Nelson violated this because he KNEW that his ships and crews outclassed the enemy. Had he been fighting the French navy from several years previously he would never have attempted the manoeuvres he did. Likewise Duncan at Kemperduin. Against an enemy of comparable overall fighting quality the line should be able to shoot an oncoming fleet into submission before the oncming ships reach the line.

[georgerutherfor]

David,

You're entirely right about the Battle of Algeciras - I could not remember the name of it.

Doug

[BobP]

Looks like something else to spend money on. Have to pull out my Great Naval Battles book to get some battles together.

[Zakopious]

Will the sails of Glory ships be the same size as the Pirates of the Spanish Main ships ?

See: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1...e-spanish-main

[Walt Powell]

I am looking forward to this game, despite some of my earlier pessimistic comments about the possible quality of the ship minis. I'm truly hoping that they'll be awesome! I have been researching a bit on the side, as I'm sure others have. I only have a minute background in WS&IM, but the genre does intrigue me. In fact, I have been reading my Alexander Kent (Richard Bolitho) novels again...and even buying more. Horatio Hornblower has become a daily staple again as well; both in book and A&E movie form. I'm even rereading everything in my copy of WS&IM once again! lol

I suspect that many of us will soon be seeking out other models on the market to augment the Ares minis...and the name Langton will become as familiar as Reviereso, Shapeways or Skytrex. His work looks stunning! But it appears from his site that his product is only available through two stateside dealers (and just a few European and British Isles dealers). Of those in the USA, one doesn't appear to have any stock any longer, but the other (Waterloo Minis) seems to have a great pipeline to Mr. Langton and his ships. Until I looked at Langton's site I never realized how many different sail settings there were...or how they might convey realism to the game (perhaps even more than gimbels, mapscapes or altitude pegs do to our beloved WOG). I'm hoping that we'll be able to have a variety of sail settings available from Ares. Any word on that?

Additionally, Waterloo Minis offers painted and assembled ships (at about $50.00 a pop); they do the painting. I'm not sure if Langton offers painted and assembled pieces of his work. But, for us Yanks, attempting to buy directly from Langton may result in a high cost for kits alone once postage is figured in. lol Which brings to mind another question for our British Isles friends: does anyone know if Mr. Langton offers painted and assembled versions of his works to the public? In summation, all I can add is that this is certainly an exciting time for those of us with an interest in SOG. ----Walt

[Timmo UK]

I am looking forward to this game, despite some of my earlier pessimistic comments about the possible quality of the ship minis. I'm truly hoping that they'll be awesome! I have been researching a bit on the side, as I'm sure others have. I only have a minute background in WS&IM, but the genre does intrigue me. In fact, I have been reading my Alexander Kent (Richard Bolitho) novels again...and even buying more. Horatio Hornblower has become a daily staple again as well; both in book and A&E movie form. I'm even rereading everything in my copy of WS&IM once again! lol

I suspect that many of us will soon be seeking out other models on the market to augment the Ares minis...and the name Langton will become as familiar as Reviereso, Shapeways or Skytrex. His work looks stunning! But it appears from his site that his product is only available through two stateside dealers (and just a few European and British Isles dealers). Of those in the USA, one doesn't appear to have any stock any longer, but the other (Waterloo Minis) seems to have a great pipeline to Mr. Langton and his ships. Until I looked at Langton's site I never realized how many different sail settings there were...or how they might convey realism to the game (perhaps even more than gimbels, mapscapes or altitude pegs do to our beloved WOG). I'm hoping that we'll be able to have a variety of sail settings available from Ares. Any word on that?

Additionally, Waterloo Minis offers painted and assembled ships (at about $50.00 a pop); they do the painting. I'm not sure if Langton offers painted and assembled pieces of his work. But, for us Yanks, attempting to buy directly from Langton may result in a high cost for kits alone once postage is figured in. lol Which brings to mind another question for our British Isles friends: does anyone know if Mr. Langton offers painted and assembled versions of his works to the public? In summation, all I can add is that this is certainly an exciting time for those of us with an interest in SOG. ----Walt

Langton used to offer beautiful ready assembled, painted and rigged models. His wife did the painting. They cost upwards of £90 each about 4 years ago. Obviously the bigger the ship and the more complex the rigging option selected the more expensive they got. Langton no longer offer this service. Realistic Modelling do offer similar and their work is very nice but not quite in the class of Langton's own offering. However, you are looking at £100 plus per ship, which is way out of my reach and why I'm so excited about SOG and hope the quality of the models is good enough for gaming. I built and rigged two 1/1200 3 rate vessels and to be honest I feel they are too precious to use for gaming!

[Walt Powell]

Langton used to offer beautiful ready assembled, painted and rigged models. His wife did the painting. They cost upwards of £90 each about 4 years ago. Obviously the bigger the ship and the more complex the rigging option selected the more expensive they got. Langton no longer offer this service. Realistic Modelling do offer similar and their work is very nice but not quite in the class of Langton's own offering. However, you are looking at £100 plus per ship, which is way out of my reach and why I'm so excited about SOG and hope the quality of the models is good enough for gaming. I built and rigged two 1/1200 3 rate vessels and to be honest I feel they are too precious to use for gaming!

Good info...thanks Tim! Suddenly the painted Waterloo Minis don't seem so expensive (at $50.00 US; or 70.05 Pds....or 69.35 Euro). Langton's kit prices sound pretty affordable (about $6-9 a ship, plus $7-8 for each mast set...the ships and masts are purchased separately). One might even be tempted to purchase several diffeent mast settings. I'm hopeful that this will be the case with the SOG ships as well. I completely understand why you wouldn't want to play with the 3 vessels you built, Tim!

[CappyTom]

Will the sails of Glory ships be the same size as the Pirates of the Spanish Main ships ?

See: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1...e-spanish-main

I have a ton of those ships. Love the game and made house rules as to role-playing. We even had newspapers of each nation. They would tell of their great fleets victories.

Tom

[Timmo UK]

Good info...thanks Tim! Suddenly the painted Waterloo Minis don't seem so expensive (at $50.00 US; or 70.05 Pds....or 69.35 Euro). Langton's kit prices sound pretty affordable (about $6-9 a ship, plus $7-8 for each mast set...the ships and masts are purchased separately). One might even be tempted to purchase several diffeent mast settings. I'm hopeful that this will be the case with the SOG ships as well. I completely understand why you wouldn't want to play with the 3 vessels you built, Tim!

Walt

If I understand you correctly, I should add:

Langton offer a number of sail settings that be further enhanced with other spares and bits they do however, I don't really feel as if the design of the kits allows for different settings to be plugged into one hull model. The kits are designed to be glued together with one sail setting that is permanent.

[DaveZee]

I used to love the Pirates game by Wizkids that used card stock boats. I cannot wait for this game.

[va beach ace]

waterloo minis sell the langton ships and I belive they are out of richmond virginia, if not there they are in virginia. I have several of there models and yes the sails are glued in and can not be changed. the price has gone up just a little, but hasn't everything? they also sale a gamming system for the ships I do have the rules but never have played them. Signal Close Action I think is the name of the game. they sale painting guides and all of that for the models and the people there are really good to work with. they also sale some pre-painted and rigged.
bob

[David Manley]

I don't really feel as if the design of the kits allows for different settings to be plugged into one hull model.

Definitely not. They should be permanently fixed.

[Walt Powell]

waterloo minis sell the langton ships and I belive they are out of richmond virginia, if not there they are in virginia. I have several of there models and yes the sails are glued in and can not be changed. the price has gone up just a little, but hasn't everything? they also sale a gamming system for the ships I do have the rules but never have played them. Signal Close Action I think is the name of the game. they sale painting guides and all of that for the models and the people there are really good to work with. they also sale some pre-painted and rigged.
bob

Right on all counts, Bob. The changeable sails was simply a pipe dream. I'm good with fixed sails. As I thought about it further, it did seem that changing sails several times during a game could prove cumbersome, I suppose. ---walt

[Walt Powell]

Hornblower, Bolitho......Aubrey?

I'm familiar with Kent's and Forrester's works. But I gathered from the movie with Russell Crowe that "Master and Commander, the Far Side of the World" was just one installment in a series. Is "Lucky" jack Aubrey in fact the center character in another set of nautical works? If so, who's the author? I'd like to add those to my reading. ---Walt

[Walt Powell]

Nautical terms that affected the english language.

Here's the first of four installments covering 21 (to name a few) nautical terms that have slipped into the english language in various forms:

1.) Burning your boats: To leave no alternative; used since Roman times when destroying troop transport ships gave recently landed soldiers no chioce but to stay and fight.
2.) by and large: Describing both good and bad sailing conditions: bad headwinds required sailing "by" the wind; favorable wind allowed use of the "large" sails, resulting in greater speed.
3.) chew the fat: To talk endlessly; from the fact that shipboard preservatives hardened meat, forcing sailors to chew it thoroughly.
4.) chock-a-block: Full to capacity; from the condition of two nautical pulleys, or "blocks" that are "chocked", or pulled as tight as possible.
5.) chowder: A seafood soup; from the French chaudiere, or cauldron.
6.) The coast is clear: Safe to proceed; applied to vessels having "cleared" the hazards of a dangerous passage.

More fun later! ---Walt

[Ed2]

[QUOTE Is "Lucky" jack Aubrey in fact the center character in another set of nautical works? If so, who's the author? I'd like to add those to my reading. ---Walt[/QUOTE]

Yes, and the Author is Patrick O'Brian.

[gully_raker]

Hornblower, Bolitho......Aubrey?

I'm familiar with Kent's and Forrester's works. But I gathered from the movie with Russell Crowe that "Master and Commander, the Far Side of the World" was just one installment in a series. Is "Lucky" jack Aubrey in fact the center character in another set of nautical works? If so, who's the author? I'd like to add those to my reading. ---Walt

Yes the Movie was from one of the series written by Patrick O'Brien & considered to be one of the most authentic Napolionic Era series.

[csadn]

The truly-relevant question is: Who's going to be first to combine _WoG_ and _SoG_ in a game?

Yes, yes -- I know they're different eras; but when has *that* ever stopped anyone? :)

[Boney10]

Yes the Movie was from one of the series written by Patrick O'Brien & considered to be one of the most authentic Napolionic Era series.

I have not read the books, but was the book Master and Commander not set during the war of 1812 and featured an American Frigate instead of a French one ?

[Gaz67]

Every wargamer I've spoken to in the last few weeks have expressed a huge interest in "Sails", the one question that they all ask is "How much will the ships cost??"
If they are priced reasonably then this has the potential to be huge.

[georgerutherfor]

I have not read the books, but was the book Master and Commander not set during the war of 1812 and featured an American Frigate instead of a French one ?

Boney10, to me the movie plot is mainly from a later book in the series, "The Far Side of the World," in which the opponent is I believe an American frigate and not a Frenchman. I guess they thought it would be tougher for American audiences to identify with the British crew if the opponent was one of their own. Simpletons.

There are a number of plot points pulled from Master and Commander, the first book in the series, which is actually set right after the turn of the century in the Meditteranean, with Jack Aubrey having just been made a Master and Commander and commanding a brig, and where he meets Stephen Maturin. Lots of great small ship action, cutting out expeditions, all of it. I did not know if I could get into a series set in the British navy or not when I first started to read, but I now claim it as my favorite series. While I got into it for the ships, the series offers so much more. O'Brian was a master of period detail - it is simply astonishing the period nuances that come out, and the entire series to me comes across as a study in human character and behavior. Nothing that beats you over the head, mind you, but all of the people they meet seem to remind one in one way or another of people we come in contact with every day, showing that while the dates may change, people tend to stay the same.

Doug

[Boney10]

Hmmm THat being the case Doug think Ill have a go at them myself. The last Naval books I read were the CS forrester Hornblower series

[Ed2]

Speaking of Hornblower, has anyone watched the eight episode TV series Horatio Hornblower?

[Walt Powell]

Speaking of Hornblower, has anyone watched the eight episode TV series Horatio Hornblower?

Just purchased and watched Episodes 1& 2. Cost just $10.00 US through Barnes and Noble. Very well done. Can't wait to get the other 6.
'

[Zakopious]

Treasure Island is a good read about sailing, pirates, etc.

It can be read online for free here:

http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7041966M/Treasure_Island.

[Bigman]

hmm have come to this a bit late being tied up with lots of real world stuff but for what its worth I have had very little time to game of late ( my last post here was in Feb or March). I have still lots of WW2 plane I want to get plus I have to get a replacement famous aces set as I gave mine to a friend, and find time to play.
In summarry I don't have the time space or money for a new game let alone one that would be a completly new area for me to get involved in.
So whens it coming out? somebody put me down for one now! I'm already looking for a nice admirals hat!

Guess I'll never learn!

[Snowy]

Guess I will put my two cents in. I am guessing (at best) that for the first series they will look for Classes of ships that come in threes, such as some of the 74's. Another thought is that Constitution, Constellation and the United States were all very similar. I think the Shannon was of a class of Frigate that was popular. I am sure with a little research you could come up with the same thing for France, Spain and others. 4 ship types in 3 paint schemes. Sound familiar?
This will minimise multiple model developement and get ships out there quicker.

Just a thought....

[csadn]

Another thought is that Constitution, Constellation and the United States were all very similar.

They came from the same designer/builder, Joshua Humphreys -- however, the first two were 44-gun hulls, while the last was a 38 (before the obligatory upgunning US captains were so fond of...).

I think the Shannon was of a class of Frigate that was popular.[/QUOTE]

http://www.hms-trincomalee.co.uk/historic/leda/leda.htm -- _Leda_-class, copied from a captured French design.

[Ed2]

I hope they initially concentrate on British, French & Spanish SOL's of the Trafalgar era.
And I really hope they will find an economical way to add ship cards.

[csadn]

I hope they initially concentrate on British, French & Spanish SOL's of the Trafalgar era.

They don't really have a choice -- none of the other navies of the period really factored into the conflict. IIRC, the Dutch Navy was absorbed by the French (with attendant consequences); the Scandinavians never really got involved in the fighting (and the one time they did -- well, look up "Battle of Copenhagen 1801"), the Russians were never anything more than a local power (if that), and the various Med nations were absorbed by either Britain or France. So, in that period, one is either British, or "Combined Fleet" (French and Spanish).

And you thought the WoW WW1 selections were limited....

[Ed2]

[QUOTE And you thought the WoW WW1 selections were limited....[/QUOTE]

With ship sizes and types ranging from the Agamemnon to the Santisima Trinidad, that should give me many hours of fun on the high seas.

[wargamer]

They don't really have a choice -- none of the other navies of the period really factored into the conflict. IIRC, the Dutch Navy was absorbed by the French (with attendant consequences); the Scandinavians never really got involved in the fighting (and the one time they did -- well, look up "Battle of Copenhagen 1801"), the Russians were never anything more than a local power (if that), and the various Med nations were absorbed by either Britain or France. So, in that period, one is either British, or "Combined Fleet" (French and Spanish).

And you thought the WoW WW1 selections were limited....

And you always have the pirates of the med... the moorish problem, (u thot the muslims were just a modern problem - look up lapanto) the problem the Constitution and her sisters were designed to stomp on. btw, Constitution launched 1797, Battle of Trafalgar was 1805? Naval operations are where you find them... and small units will be cheaper than SoLs....

[Ed2]

And you always have the pirates of the med... the moorish pSoG are endlessroblem, (u thot the muslims were just a modern problem - look up lapanto) the problem the Constitution and her sisters were designed to stomp on. btw, Constitution launched 1797, Battle of Trafalgar was 1805? Naval operations are where you find them... and small units will be cheaper than SoLs....

I agree. The possibilities for SoG are endless.

[David Manley]

They don't really have a choice -- none of the other navies of the period really factored into the conflict. IIRC, the Dutch Navy was absorbed by the French (with attendant consequences); the Scandinavians never really got involved in the fighting (and the one time they did -- well, look up "Battle of Copenhagen 1801"), the Russians were never anything more than a local power (if that), and the various Med nations were absorbed by either Britain or France. So, in that period, one is either British, or "Combined Fleet" (French and Spanish).

Let me see, the RN, French and Spanish navies. Check. Now there was also the United States Navy and a little thing called the War of 1812.The Swedes and the Russians fought many fleet actions during the period, but also fought some amazing littoral actions in amongst the "archipelagos" of the Baltic, with some wierd and wonderful types of ships. The Dutch and Danish may have fought on the side of the French, but their fleets were generally distinct rather than being "absorbed", and they fought some interetsing actions against the British and others (Kamperduin, and Copenhagen being the most obvious). In the Med there were various navies belonging to the Italian republics (Venice and Naples primarily, the former having ships at the frigate battle of Lissa in 1811). And the Ottoman Empire had a sizeable fleet as well - plenty of potentyial for a Russian / Turkish dust up in the Black Sea or, if you are into solo actions (or are a masochist with a thing for the Ottomans), try refighting the battle of Navarinio (1821).

So there are plently of non anglo/spano/French opportunities and the bonus is that, with the exception of "rivet counters" (for which I admit I do have tendencies) a frigate is a frigate, and a 74 is a 74, so you can chop and change ships as you want between nations. And in any case, ships captured in battle were frequently put into service by their new owners, or (in the case of the RN, at least) copied and built in some numbers. The RN's "Leda" class for example was a copy of a French frigate, and if you are in or visiting the UK you can visit two examples, one in Dundee (HMS UNICORN) and one in Hartlepool (HMS TRINCOMALEE).



A piccie of Trincomalee that I took on my first visit - a very rainy day in November - and which I later posted on Wikipedia

[David Manley]

With ship sizes and types ranging from the Agamemnon to the Santisima Trinidad

Why stop at 64s as the smallest ship? Working at sloop/brig/gunboat level is just as much fun as playing with SoLs, perhaps even moreso!

[Gaz67]

BOMB KETCH!!!!

[Walt Powell]

Guess I will put my two cents in. I am guessing (at best) that for the first series they will look for Classes of ships that come in threes, such as some of the 74's. Another thought is that Constitution, Constellation and the United States were all very similar. I think the Shannon was of a class of Frigate that was popular. I am sure with a little research you could come up with the same thing for France, Spain and others. 4 ship types in 3 paint schemes. Sound familiar?
This will minimise multiple model developement and get ships out there quicker.

Just a thought....

I'm not even sure that it would be that important to put "names" on all the ships. Unlike WW1 aircraft, their wasn't that much individualism amongst classes of ship (at least nOT that you would notice at 1/1200th). They could concentrate on classes, allowing more to our imagination as far as how ships were "named" or used. This will also allow for "captured" ships to change flags.

[Walt Powell]

Let me see, the RN, French and Spanish navies. Check. Now there was also the United States Navy and a little thing called the War of 1812.The Swedes and the Russians fought many fleet actions during the period, but also fought some amazing littoral actions in amongst the "archipelagos" of the Baltic, with some wierd and wonderful types of ships. The Dutch and Danish may have fought on the side of the French, but their fleets were generally distinct rather than being "absorbed", and they fought some interetsing actions against the British and others (Kamperduin, and Copenhagen being the most obvious). In the Med there were various navies belonging to the Italian republics (Venice and Naples primarily, the former having ships at the frigate battle of Lissa in 1811). And the Ottoman Empire had a sizeable fleet as well - plenty of potentyial for a Russian / Turkish dust up in the Black Sea or, if you are into solo actions (or are a masochist with a thing for the Ottomans), try refighting the battle of Navarinio (1821).

So there are plently of non anglo/spano/French opportunities and the bonus is that, with the exception of "rivet counters" (for which I admit I do have tendencies) a frigate is a frigate, and a 74 is a 74, so you can chop and change ships as you want between nations. And in any case, ships captured in battle were frequently put into service by their new owners, or (in the case of the RN, at least) copied and built in some numbers. The RN's "Leda" class for example was a copy of a French frigate, and if you are in or visiting the UK you can visit two examples, one in Dundee (HMS UNICORN) and one in Hartlepool (HMS TRINCOMALEE).



A piccie of Trincomalee that I took on my first visit - a very rainy day in November - and which I later posted on Wikipedia

Interchangeable......what he said.

[csadn]

wargamer, and David Manley: Those are all nice selections -- but none of them fall under "Trafalgar-era ships-of-the-line", with the possible exception of Copenhagen.

This illustrates the problem _SoG_ is going to face: Do they go with the "known" battles, and have to fight for shelf space with every other age-of-sail game on the planet; or do they go with the lesser-known battles, and deal with the constant whining about how "no one is interested in the [fill-in-the-blank-minor-power]"? Never mind the game-balance issue -- notice how every battle is won by the British; who's going to want to play the French and Spanish, knowing he's going to get squashed?

[Ed2]

[QUOTE= notice how every battle is won by the British; who's going to want to play the French and Spanish, knowing he's going to get squashed?[/QUOTE]

But think of the Glory if you win.

[Volant Gun]

I'm an airman through and through.

Ships just aren't my thing; but knowing me if watched a game I'd be hooked.

[wargamer]

But think of the Glory if you win.

Aye, while the Bon Homme Richard sinks under you, you take the British Serapis and sail home in glory.....

[Walt Powell]

Also....I wonder how they'll portray "having the weatherguage" (the wind in your favor). In WWI planes often drifted over German lines due to the prevailing winds, but it didn't factor enough in individual combat to merit recognition in a clean and simple game like WOG. However, the wind was EXTREMELY important in the age of the sail and almost always decided the upper hand in ship-to-ship combat. I wonder how Andrea and Ares will portray this affect?

Will the ship minis come in an attitude reflecting "prepared for action"?

And will they consider "quality of crew"? On this point I'm guessing "no", since for WOG only the plane characteristics are reflected, not the skills of individual pilots. Endeavoring to portray the skills of a ship's hands may be too cumbersome if SOG is to keep to the code of "fast, easy and simple play". I'm excited to see how the developers addressed all these nautical issues. Based upon Andrea's interview in which he stated that historical matters were closely considered, I'm VERY hopeful!

[Snowy]

When I joined this site, I thought I knew a lot about WW1 air combat and aircraft. I found that I knew but a single digit percentage of what I though I knew.

Above all else, I am so looking forward to all the new tidbits I will learn about with this new era incoming.

Cheers!

[KiltedWolf]

As Rob said, I will give it a go as well -- should be fun, and give our group yet another outlet for slinging purple prose at one another!

I may have to come up with another handle for those forums; not sure how well my kilt will do on the deck of a ship!

Cheers!

[Gaz67]

Tis true, you don't want to scare the ladies, however the answer is simple, Trews. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trews )

[KiltedWolf]

Aye, trews would work -- but to be so confined in a bifurcated garment upon the open seas... sigh.



Cheers!

[Gaz67]

The sacrifices we make....

(nice word by the way, bifurcated, I shall now attempt to include it in conversation)

[AlgyLacey]

As Rob said, I will give it a go as well -- should be fun, and give our group yet another outlet for slinging purple prose at one another!

I may have to come up with another handle for those forums; not sure how well my kilt will do on the deck of a ship!

Cheers!

You should be OK on deck but UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you go aloft! O_O