Not for some years now Paul.Originally Posted by tikkifriend
Bob retired, and went to live at Skegness I believe.
He died a year or two ago.
Rob.
Not for some years now Paul.
Bob retired, and went to live at Skegness I believe.
He died a year or two ago.
Rob.
Well that certainly makes a big difference Dave. Looks as if the Oberst will be taking some more of my money then.
Rob.
That seems to be a fair price. Nice one Keith.
Still a bit too much when you have a WoW/G habit to feed
I bit the bullet and sent an order.
Rob.
And so it begins
Have you signed up over at the Anchorage get?
I joined there as soon as it started Dave.And so it begins
Have you signed up over at the Anchorage get?
Rob.
Shouldn't be too difficult: "British SoL vs. French SoL: The first time the British draws a firing token, the French surrender." >:)
Shouldn't be too difficult: "British SoL vs. French SoL: The first time the British draws a firing token, the French surrender." >Hahaha.
Hey, at least I didn't say anything about frigates.... >;)
I think this is the big question over the game. It looks great for Frigate actions, but I'm unsure how it can handle historical SOL engagements with multiple ships a side. Its not like WW2 (for instance) where a Destroyer can in theory torpedo a larger ship. Frigates are highly unlikely to be able to fight against SOL.Hey, at least I didn't say anything about frigates.... >
Anyway, do we have a release date yet?
The best guesses seem to be mid to late October. My pick was Nov. 4th.
And yet, down at the docks*, one of the members has run across a few instances of exactly that occurring.
[*: The _SoG_ forum; _WoG_ forum is "up at the field". :) ]
Chris, would you give directions in English?And yet, down at the docks*, one of the members has run across a few instances of exactly that occurring.
[*: The _SoG_ forum; _WoG_ forum is "up at the field".]
True, but they are very few and far between. There are significantly more examples of frigates mixing it with SoLs and being shot up in very short order. I'm kicking myself for not remembering (I expect Mark Barker would be able to tell you off the top of his head) a French frigate during a fleet action that hitherto had been ignored under the "gentleman's rules" (SoLs didn't engage frigates that left them alone) which decided to take a pot-shot at one of the British liners. The return broadside dismasted the ship, shattered the hull and caused the frigate to strike. And that was from a single short ranged broadside. So, in general, figates should have a hard time in this game as in any other if they try to duke it out with the liners. In most of the playtest games I've playee or observed frigates that did try to do so were treated "roughly". That said, if anything I think frigate firepower against heavily built ships is too efective, probably to retain play balance. But its a simple thing to house-rule if desired.
Few games tell the 'real' story that the weight of shot carried by most frigates was insufficient to do significant damage to the higher class ships. The hulls of even 3rd Rate ships would shrug off 12 pounders and all but short-ranged 18 pounders. The few 24s a frigate might carry would not be nearly enough to concern a capital ship.
Americans are enamored with US heavy frigates of the War of 1812 which are very untypical and closer to razees or 4th rates than to frigates in armament. That said, frigates could do damage against individual SOLs under the right circumstances. Another interesting fact that is often overlooked is the quality of shot that each country employed. British shot was purer than nearly any others and, shot for shot, their cannonballs were heavier, some 10% heavier than US shot of the same caliber. The same is generally true versus the French as well. Weight of broadside is a significant indicator of penetration power and the larger the ship the thicker the 'armor'.
It is very human of us to focus on things that happened occasionally and on the more unusual aspects. One needs to focus on what usually happened (and why) and only represent those less likely outcomes as possibilities -- these possibilities should often be made remote. So, even though I can think of a few occasions of a frigate besting an SOL, there are hundreds, if not thousands of occasions where the reverse would be true.
In our own sailing ship rules, working the physics in to represent this would have meant a complete rewrite so we generally handle it this way.
Most fleet scenarios that include frigates, they are relatively few to the number of SOLs. Frigates facilitate fleet coordination and when absent, a fleet has a disadvantage in command and control. Any frigate that fires on an SOL is fair game but is otherwise unmolested by SOLs. Frigates are useful after the battle in securing prizes. These things make the players use the frigates in a more historical manner. Since it is a game, it leaves the options to go against this to the player and the results are often predictable but the player has the power to choose.
Not every frigate captain is a Thomas Cochrane. Actually, there was only one such; so lets leave frigates in their proper place in the fleet.
Last edited by Suffern; 09-09-2013 at 17:04. Reason: spelling
Kind of like golf. I remember the three good shots, not the other 110.
Yup - it did happen on some rare occasions, but exceptions make very bad general rules. Frigates avoided SOL because they were terribly vulnerable and were usually busy doing other things, SOL ignored Frigates because in normal circumstances the Frigates would run away and the SOL had zero chance of catching them. In SOL engagements the role of the Frigate is usually to act as a scout and then signal repeater while the Ships of the Line stayed in the line.And yet, down at the docks*, one of the members has run across a few instances of exactly that occurring.
[*: The _SoG_ forum; _WoG_ forum is "up at the field".
I agree wholeheartedly with jonathan on this. Fleets without frigates operate in battle at a distinct disadvantage. Fleets needed frigates on the flank to relay signals, run in and take prizes, and as a last resort to run in and assist in the engagement.
Not every frigate captain is a Thomas Cochrane. Actually, there was only one such; so lets leave frigates in their proper place in the fleet.
_Serieuse_ at the Nile, if memory serves.
That said: If the circumstances were right -- very light winds, for one -- the smaller ships could, if not defeat, then at least survive long enough to evade the bigger ones. I'm thinking of that Russian brig which somehow managed to survive an engagement with two Turkish SoLs (_Merkurii_, I believe).
(I won't go into the time I was playing Sid Meier's _Pirates_, and defeated a 124-gun galleon with a 2-gun pinnace -- let's just say: The winds were *very* light; and it took most of six *hours*.... :) )
LOL I remember that game... that's why I specifically tailored my own ship for the sole function of taking out Morgan early, then refitted HIS ship and became The Playground Bully with it.
Let's sail!
Hmmm waiting here too? Yikes I forgot if I ordered anything . . .
Don't plan to buy it just yet. But one of my mates who I introduced to WoG and is now a fan saw this was coming. He's a huge maritime nut so it's got his name all over it. We have agreed he will provide all the SoG to my WoG. That way everyone's happy.
If your interested to know the rules, here is the English rulebook for Sails of Glory Click Here
Great link, now to get those Hallmark ships out of dry dock and the Ordinary, refit and set sail.
Do I plan on playing SoG, hmm. A couple years back, I was definately "in" on SoG. I was one of the founding members of the Anchorage site Keith started.
But there has been a long period of inactivity from my first hearing of the game to now. My problem now is Zvezda's similar game, called Armada Invincible or something like that.
If I didn't have the materials and basic skills to paint and build my own ships, I'd go with SoG hands down. Also, if I didn't have 5 kids, I'd go SOG! But I have to watch my pennies, and Zvezda makes some super stuff for an unbeatable price.
In looking at the ships that I've seen so far, right now I like the Zvezda ships better, even though I'll have to paint and assemble them myself. I'm sure the price will beat Ares too.
The thing I'll have to decide is, while I may like the Zvezda ship models better, and maybe I can do a decent job of painting and building them; and the price is better, how does the game play?
I like what I have seen from Ares on how the game plays. I don't get much information from Zvezda, and I don't think too many folks here in the states do!
So for now, the jury is still out for me. Right now price and model quality goes to Zvezda, but playability and company support goes to Ares.
Rob my sentiments exactly. I have been getting into a lot of new games this year (SAGA, Dead Mans Hand and my favourate Musket and Tomahawks), so I am now having my doubts as to how intressted I am now. I know I cannot afford it, but that has never matter a dam to me. So at this stage I am going to hang back, let someone else buy it and play with their models and see if it realy grabs me!
Last edited by Oberst Hajj; 10-04-2013 at 07:50.
According to Ares' "upcoming products" page, SOG in its entirety, has now been pushed back to November.....the wait continues!
Last edited by P-51D; 10-04-2013 at 08:49.
For those that want to see the rules, I believe Ares also just published them in a PDF on their website.
In the "when is SoG going to arrive" pool down at the docks, I was tempted to tell them "not until 2014"; but I didn't want to be accused of being Inordinately Cynical (again) -- plus I didn't want to deal with the simmering rage when I was proven right. :)
In retrospect, I'm starting to feel sorry for my poor aunt who'll have to deal with the mountain of cases and cartons I'm having shipped to her door... especially since going forward it looks like I'm going to have to buy two copies of everything.
If the rules had been made for 1/1200 scale (GHQ Micro-nauts & Langton) and sold as hard copies, we could have been playing SOG for a couple of years already.
Not actually, I know for a fact that some of the rules have only just been finalized in the last couple of months
I tried to download the SOG rules on the Ares site, but they will not open with my Foxit PDF reader.
Perhaps my version of Foxit is too old or perhaps the PDF file is really corrupt.
Opens fine for me in Adobe.
The delay has to be as frustrating to them as it is to us consumers. They have all this money tied up in a product they are not getting a return on. Plus, people get turned off with these types of delays, a fact I know they are well aware of. In today's "I want it now!" world, it doesn't take much for people to move on to something else.
Last edited by P-51D; 10-06-2013 at 07:24.
Sounds like the Zvezda game will be a lot different.
The time period will be 1450-1650 and the ship scale will be 1/350.
See: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=297133
So SoG is Napoleonics and Zvezda is Renaissance, and with different scales there is basically no real similarity. Two different games. So bah on Zvezda, already invested in SoG. And with current funds disappearing to Zombicide....
There is a slight time overlap between the two games IIRC, but it's less than half a century--1637 HMS Sovereign of the Seas would only be good for a few years' range in SOG scenarios if memory serves.
Besides, while I'm sure the Zvezda models look good and have a more satisfying heft, at 1/350 they're gonna be real Space Eaters.
Basically the time frame of SoG would be around 1780 to 1815 - so don't see any overlap. And the renaissance ships were hardly good for anything outside of the med and inshore activities. The newer ships with concentrated firepower, better sail plans and even standarizing weaponry should normally sail rings around the older junk and shoot them from greater distance. Hand to hand would probably be just the same, as I don't remember if the various marine units improved that much.
Got them.
I have read through the basic rules. The first pass did not wow me. Seems to be a lot of busy work unlike WOG. However, I have not read the whole thing and will go over the first section to get a full grasp on it.
Al, according to Andrea the game engine was designed to accommodate anything from about 1660 to about 1815-1820ish IIRC--with how technology and conflict went one conflict in that timeframe just flows straight into the next and a lot of Napoleonic era ships were leftovers from prior wars that hadn't been sunk, salvaged or broken up yet.
I think after you read the next two levels of SGN you might change your mind and get hooked..
That was funny!In the "when is SoG going to arrive" pool down at the docks, I was tempted to tell them "not until 2014"; but I didn't want to be accused of being Inordinately Cynical (again) -- plus I didn't want to deal with the simmering rage when I was proven right.
LOL!
Last edited by kaufschtick; 10-07-2013 at 08:52.
Try taking on a fleet of Zebeke's! They only have a single gun but are devastating. Great when there is no wind, they can row rings around your becalmed ship and blow it to pieces. Sorry not SoG rules but sometimes the galley can out sail the sailing ship.
Neil
I've downloaded the rules, they read ok for me. The initial problem I see in trying them out is duplicating the ship management and target card, getting the arcs correct etc. Plus lack of stats for all the Hallmark ships types I have. But I'll get it.
Whoa, I just watched a Dice Tower review of SoG, and I have to say that I am leaning back in toward SoG in a big way.
One of the great things I love about WoG is the ease of learning the rules. That is such a key issue for me, because most people I play have never played a simulation/wargame type game ever before. Especially with my kids, who are used to playing video games, which above all else are...FUN! So any game that places simulation accuracy over playability just isn't going to make it for me. SoG looks like another terrific design that blends in the key elements and concepts with the game components to maximize the games playability.
There are a lot of great air combat games out there. However a lot of times, when you find yourself in a position that you have a couple hours at hand, and someone who has never played a wargame/board game before, I can't think of another game that allows the new player to learn, then begin to understand, and then to actually enjoy playing a game like, WoG. Most wargames I've ever played, the first game winds up being a "learning" game. So if both players are playing for the first time, then you are both learning, and it's not a bad game. But if only one player is learning and the other player knows the game pretty well, then things get weird. Either the experienced player has to hold back a little (boring), or the new player gets stomped (not fun at all).
In my life, time is so important. Work takes up such a huge portion of time, that it means for one of my favorite pastimes and hobbies (wargaming), that it is paramount anymore that the wargames I play, incorperate the rules as seamlessly as is humanly possible, if I ever entertain the hope of finding an opponent(s).
Something that is very important to me, is the opportunity to give a glimpse of the history behind the wargames' subject, to my kids and their friends. So unless the game is going to be enjoyable and fun, I'm not going to get any of my children, or their friends, interested at all. The key to making it enjoyable and fun is being able to quickly learn the rules, and to quickly be able to grasp the key game play concepts and apply them. It's amazing what sometimes sparks a young person's interests. A trip to a museum, a movie, a book? Maybe, maybe not. Video games, on the other hand; many are so rich in theme and flavor that, suprisingly enough, they seem to be a huge item for capturing a young persons interests. Board wargaming did for me when I was young, basically because there were no video games back then (and no, there weren't dinosaurs either, as my kids claim).
So video games handle all the tedious details, and allows the player to focus on playing the game and having fun. That's what wargames have to do if they are going to make it these days. They have to become user friendly.
That's what WoG has done so well, and it looks to me like that is what SoG is going be.
Last edited by kaufschtick; 10-07-2013 at 08:51.
The guy I game with is getting the ships while I get the airplanes
I had a chance to see the demo set of the ships at Enfilade last May, and have downloaded the rules PDF and given it a quick once-over. Both look very promising.
As WWI aviation and Age of Sail naval gaming are two of my personal favorite wargaming subjects, I can only assume Ares is attempting to get all my money....
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks