Bases should be much thinner than those shown on the picture. Ship looks like some unnatural hovercraft. With Napoleonics bases (i.e.) is somehow different (maybe because unit occupies larger area of it's base...)
Bases should be much thinner than those shown on the picture. Ship looks like some unnatural hovercraft. With Napoleonics bases (i.e.) is somehow different (maybe because unit occupies larger area of it's base...)
Has anyone changed their mind about
Maybe, ships are kind of cool. (Maybe)
That's mutiny I say! (No)
To
Yea Yea Captian! (Yes)?
I've just added my vote, a few days after backing the KS project so I guess I will be playing it, even if it's solo.
Still not decided. I have to be careful with other addictions... But pictures look great, even with thick bases (I do not see a problem - there will not be so many colisions like in WoG).
When the Kickstarter 'goodies' are sent out, will they come to the U.K. from Italy or from the U.S.A., because if they come from the U.S.A. then our customs service will very probably level charges and then our postal service will slap a handling charge on top?
Price point is interesting. The market standard for 1:1200 on the UK side of the pond is Langton. They're rather beautiful models. A 74 from them is between Ł8-Ł9 depending on your choice of sail settings, which are pretty comprehensive and include etched brass for fine details. SOG seems to be pitching at more than twice that.
I'm not sure I'm that comfortable with that ratio
The point is that taking part in the KS or not, if you are thinking about a purchase of the game, then someone will have to have paid the customs and delivery into the UK since the product will come from the states (unless enough EU members join the KS to warrant a specific container from China to somewhere in the EU). Now that can be an individual, or a local distributor. If it's a local distributor, you can bet they'll pass those costs onto the customer. What could be $90 stateside could easily end up 70 quid in the UK, for example.
Here's a video sent from the Kickstarter site on ship movement:
Karl
I'll see if I can't find out some more info on that as not all of the goodies are coming directly from Ares.
Lets see...
Langton (with no add on options)
1:1200 (smaller) Bare metal, un-assembled ship (nice looking though)
Plastic/paper packaging
Sails of Glory
1:1000 (larger) fully assembled and painted plastic ship
Game card
Game base
Game log book
Commercial packaging
I think you get a lot more in the Sails of Glory ship pack then you do in the Langton, so comparing prices is not really feasible.
That video was actually quite informative. The card system really is very simple. I guess it will stay just as simple when the more advanced rules are used, you'd just use a different sail setting and so a different line.
Impressed.
Packaging etc I can do without, and so can the planet tbh. I'm assuming the cards \ base and anything else you need will be available either from SOG or fan produced. Building & painting - here's the thing, I own 60+ WOW planes. The ones I painted myself are more precious to me because I spent some time on them, and they look different to everyone else's models. Given I will only need a couple of ships to play SoG, I'm not sure I see the time needed to build \ paint a model any great loss - indeed given I take enjoyment out of doing so, and I find it relaxing I suspect this is actually a bonus. Size is not such an issue either, as given the variations I'm expecting them to be not too far off at a glance. Of course this is all personal - I may decide to simply repaint the SoG models I like.
Nice video however the bases look awful - way too thick and a horrible white colour that detracts from the models. Are they what the production bases will be?
Last edited by PilGrim; 03-10-2013 at 13:58.
Your original statement was one of financial value (SOG model cost 2x as much as a model kit), not your own personal enjoyment of model making. That's why I made the comment that a day of my life is worth far more to me than 'saving' almost $10 by making my own model from a kit.
The bases will be blue as seen in other pics.
Blue or white - bases are still too thick and distracting. They should be replaced for visual effect, if for nothing else.
1:1000 or 1:1200? Hmmm... 1:1000 pre-painted are better then 1:1200 unpainted. But, will people who already have their fleets be eager to spend money on new fleets? On the other hand, I understand manufacturers need for unique scale for it's products.
As I don't have fleet - not counting "Pirates of the Caribbeans" - I'll probably join the new game, but after serious play-testing.
As Kev, pointed out, you were comparing the two on a financial bases, so I was pointing all the reason they should cost more. And let me ask you, would you sell your repainted planes for what you paid for them? I know I would not... so paint jobs have a value to them... often much greater then the price of the materials they go on.
And the production bases will be blue to blend in more with the sea mats.
I'm pretty certain we will not even notice the bases during game play. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the actual bases and flight pegs for Wings are not attractive either when you think about immersion in a flying game. But we don't even notice care about them. The Sails bases are exactly 1.5mm thicker then the Wings bases... from arms length away, I doubt I could even tell the difference in thickness.
I'm sure those with large fleets of 1:1200 ships will find a way to adapt them to play Sails if they really want to. After putting that much time and effort into building and painting these tiny ships, modding up a new base system should not be hard at all.
Basically, we agree about fleets.
But, I still see the base as the greatest (visual) issue of the new game, and must ask what was the reason to choose them, and not some thiner bases? I don't believe heavy ships could be the reason. And, maybe (if there is sufficient time) a poll should be posted - this is a rare chance for manufacturer to have a deep survey of it's target group and check gamers opinion before releasing a game.
Why not clear bases - then you could play on different coloured surfaces? I see an opportunity for an entrepreneur who has maybe already styled better bases for WoG minis ......
I have a whole lot of tiny ships from the Pirates of the Spanish Main game, but SoG looks many orders of magnitude cooler and more sophisticated.
Sorry, and please don't get me wrong here, but this is starting to sound a little like the FoW forum where no-one is allowed to express an opinion that casts the product in anything other than glowing terms.
The value of the painting on a prepainted model that I intend to overpaint would be exactly zero, to a few decimal places. The value of a model repainted by me in financial terms would probably be no more than, and probably less than a similar second hand stock model. The additional value I place on it is due to my personal connection and effort, nothing more.
The price point is quite high for a historical model. Unlike a WW1 biplane I don't see any great problem assembling a white metal Napoleonic warship - this may be because the moulds for some of the Red Eagle kits which preceded WoW were in all honesty terrible, which is certainly not the case with Langton. The colour schemes of many WW1 aircraft are challenging to repeat, so prepainted WoW planes in the standard 1:144 were well worth the price point in my opinion I'm not sure that the same applies to the SoG ship models, and will remain unsure until I actually see the production ones.
Making the bases blue may help, but they still detract from the model. Is the stat card actually stuck to the base too?
I'm not sure I'm reading the same thing... but I understand your concern. To this date, and I admit I am a little new here, I've yet to find the vitriol I've noted elsewhere. The vast majority of interactions here remain more than civil.
I find these dicussions both interesting and informative... but I have to remind myself that, especially in the case of SoG, most of us have very little first hand information. Much of the talk is speculative at best... an defintiely opinion. For my part, I am interested in getting my hands on the finished product, but that interest comes not without a measure of concern... especially with the bases (hmm... what if the blue doesn't match the blue of my table?).
I'm sorry you feel this way, as I've not seen anything of the sort and I have tried really hard to foster an atmosphere that is both friendly and informative. In fact, I have not always been supportive of some of the things Nexus/Ares has done in regards to the games and I've shared those thoughts on this very site.
I response was that you were comparing the two on simply a financial basis and mentioned nothing about the "value" you get from building and painting your own minis. You also only pointed out virtues of the Langton ships, and made no mention at all at what all you got with the Sails ship.
I do tend to stick up for Ares on a lot of points about Sails. That is because so many of us jump to conclusions and form opinions about something we have not actually seen yet. I think that is quite unfair considering the record they have with Wings of Glory, which we are all so intimately familiar with.
I am backing it, I just can't decide if Cpt. or Lt. is the best level. THis game seems like it will play better with lots of pieces in one way, but in another the control board an options would make controlling less ships per person seem better. Also, books like the Aubrey and Maturin series have some pretty exciting fights between 2 to 4 ships so that is saying something about small fights (especially if they represent a small part of a larger battle). Basically Lt. gets you 8 ships and Cpt. gets you 16 ships. I think with Cpt., I would have enough minis for quite a while and would be able to teach/play the game at the local club by providing everything anyone needs to play.
It is always nice to save others some trouble and 'give back' to the community that I so eagerly play in (with other people's minis).
I'm already in at Captain. But I know that I'll end up doing the same thing I did with the WoW/WoG which is buy whatever takes my fancy because you can never have enough DVIIs or SE5s etc. I can also see where those who are more skilled than myself find the price of the ships compared to the Langton models to be prohibitive, especially if they're from Europe.
As with the stuff Clipper shows here, and Volunteer and James show on the Anchorage site, the level of modelling and painting skill on display is truly astounding. I would love to have a tenth the talent you guys have in that regard. Considering I started out as a modeller and drifted into wargame, it's mildly depressing to find that life has taken it's toll and I've now got two left hands and four thumbs. Short of paying someone to make and paint the vessels for me, SoG is a godsend. With look I may take the inspiration I get from fellow members and attempt my own build.
I have a small group of Shapeways stuff waiting to be prepared for painting at the moment. I managed to break a DR1 in half by simply sanding it down a bit. :embarass: This just illustrates how cack-handed I've become over the years.
Thankfully we're all different and have our own set of values on things. It would be a boring place if everyone was the same.
I'm actually warming to it having watched the movement video. I only really got into WW1 planes when the WoW ready made models became available. As much as I like painting wargame figures I can't be bothered to make up planes and am beginning to feel the same about ships. Of course Langton and GHQ make up into lovely models but I'm not convinced I can be bothered any more. I think with a bit of extra painting and some rigging these SOG models might be acceptable gaming pieces – I'd have to try one to know for certain if I'm happy enough with them and of course the UK price point could be an issue. I'm not keen on the thick bases but perhaps Litko might make us some 1.5mm clear acrylic ones with etched markings for the zones. Certainly feeling more open minded about it than I was.
I respect your feelings, but I have never experienced the folks on the Aerodrome to be anything other than gracious. I think there is plenty of room here to discuss less-than-glowing opinions about products, as has been demonstrated by participants within this thread concerning some of the rereleases of WGF planes:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ght=comparison
As for SoG, there has been plenty of discussion on the Anchorage that is not very supportive of the new release or associated kickstarter. For example of two threads:
http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...he-Kickstarter
http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...owing-interest
It is an economic fallacy to equate value with price.
Only if you have a suitably large amount of disposable income. Value is immaterial if you cannot afford the price.
For someone who says you respect someones feelings, why shout at them?
However this is all pretty speculative until we see the product "in hand" and play the game. I suspect the target market for this game is still crossover boardgame\ wargame and not pure miniatures gamers. These markets have different aspirations and expectations and therefore the aesthetic side may be still more "counter" rather than "miniature".
I'm in the "interesting" position that one of my regular gaming opponents has decided to jump in at Captain level, so I wont be "needing" anything to play. Maybe this is clouding my judgement but I remain ambivalent to say the least.
Lets leave it there for now until we have the product and then we can judge
Last edited by PilGrim; 03-13-2013 at 01:01.
Thanks for the tutorial Kev.
As an old git, I have just been using the caps lock indiscriminately, not realizing that there was a hidden code of ethics buried in the Internet. Can't say it will alter my usage in any way, but it will help me to understand why some people who know better get irate with me.
I suppose we had better all now get back onto topic, before the Oberst gets irate with all of us.
Rob.
I'm going to buy the hell out of this game.
is it out-there already?
can someone point me where I can buy it on-line?
tanks!
thanks Chris!
Funny, I introduced a fellow gamer to Wings of War & their miniatues. Loves the game. So when he went to their website and saw the Kick-Starter for the naval version, I told him, since I'm flying aircraft, he could sail the ships...
He's still on the fence...Lol
GO to the unofficial/official site:
http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...on-Kickstarter
and the kickstarter site:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ombat?ref=card
Just finished my first mini,I'm HOOKED
The captain level is still the best deal afloat.
I wonder how many people will say after the KickStarter ends, " I should have".
Time to beg, borrow or beg some more, for the extra cash.
Kev, if you do like building ships you wind up with something like this:
She's a Langton 74, in this case HMS Culloden. I haven't decided if I'm going to try Sails of Glory, but I must admit the video makes it more likely. I've had fun with the Lardy set of rules Kiss Me, Hardy, but I'm always open to new ideas in gaming.
Great looking ship Lloyd. You're one of the few that show the bulwork paint on the open gunports.
Just think of what you could do with a ship that was already built and painted.
Last edited by Ed2; 04-08-2013 at 19:10.
Very nicely done Lloyd.
I can't wait for this system to come out. I'll put Horatio Hornblower or Master and Commander on in the background as I play.
I just played the prototype and the if this proto is any indication, the final game will rock!
Here is a link to my preview:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/sails...me-preview.htm
As I mentioned in the Armchair General, my guess is that the rum counter would be used by the boarding party to boost morale.
As an old salt, I will be playing this game! Backed at the captain level
Sorry to be the voice of doom (is that reality?) here but it would almost certainly be a lot more work to get that standard from a prepaint as you would probably have to dis-assemble it to get in to apply the paint.
Fantastic job Lloyd - is that sprue \ plastic rod you are using?
Particularly like the strakes - that's a steady hand you have there. In fact I'm suitably inspired that I'm going to head off to the Langton site and look for something to work on as a special project
Cheers
Bookmarks