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View Poll Results: Do you use the "Pilot Injured" optional special damage rule?

Voters
94. You may not vote on this poll
  • No: I don't bother with any special damage rules

    4 4.26%
  • No: I use special damage, but the extra check is too fiddly

    1 1.06%
  • No: I like the Observer Hit special damage to keep 2-seaters in line

    28 29.79%
  • Yes!

    61 64.89%
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Thread: Do you use the optional Pilot Wounded special damage?

  1. #1

    Default Do you use the optional Pilot Wounded special damage?

    The original publication of Wings of War had an "observer hit" special damage icon, which was later amended with an optional rule to sometimes be "pilot hit" (on a 3 damage card). How many of you actually apply the optional rule?

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    The original publication of Wings of War had an "observer hit" special damage icon, which was later amended with an optional rule to sometimes be "pilot hit" (on a 3 damage card). How many of you actually apply the optional rule?
    I must have missed where the special damage icon was amended with an optional rule to sometimes be "pilot hit".

    Could you direct to the location of this change in the rules?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc1855 View Post
    I must have missed where the special damage icon was amended with an optional rule to sometimes be "pilot hit".

    Could you direct to the location of this change in the rules?
    It's in the miniature rules:
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of War miniatures
    If the optional “Special Damages” rules are in use, when the card is taken by a two-seater the symbol may affect either the pilot or the observer. If the card gives 3 points of damage, it affect the pilot: Apply the normal rules for a wounded pilot. If it does not have a “3,” it means that the observer of the two-seater plane is wounded.
    Looking over it again, it's kinda interesting though, since the "standard" special damage for that icon is "Pilot Wounded". Presumably this is because there were no 2-seaters in the deluxe set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of War miniatures
    The symbol means that the pilot is wounded. This special damage is kept secret. The plane can no longer fire the machine guns just after executing a steep maneuver, an Immelmann turn, a Split-S, or a climb (see Altitude rules, pages 11-12). Unjamming machine guns takes longer: If your guns become jammed, you may not fire after the next four maneuvers instead of the next three. Take three counters as always (so as not to reveal that your pilot is wounded), but do not fire after the maneuver executed just after discarding the last one. If an airplane takes a second pilot wounded damage, it is eliminated.

  4. #4

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    So... it appears that the amended optional rules for "Pilot Wounded" is not in any of the optional rules books provided with either Fighting Aces, Watch Your Back or Burning Drachens ?

    That is frustrating.

  5. #5

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    We use the special rules but found a tricky situation when the plane was hit by ground fire and only the special damage counts. The pilot drew a "pilot hit" card with a three which meant the observer was hit. But the normal damage didn't count cause it was ground fire. How to go on? Observer hit or not?

  6. #6

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    The pilot hit result IS Special Damage, so yes.

    The amended rule is in the miniatures ruleset from the Deluxe box. You can download a copy from "Files" on this site. It has 2-seater rules included for blind spots and the Whalefish's special firing arcs so I presume these rules supercede the original box versions.

    With this rule, 2-seater pilots are hit with the 3-damage wounded card (otherwise the observer) and single-seater pilots are hit with any wounded card. Observers are always incapacitated, wounded pilots take an extra phase to unjam guns and cannot fire after a steep manoeuvre other than a dive. A second pilot wound incapacitates the pilot and brings down the plane.

  7. #7

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    I've got the Deluxe Set. The question was if the ground fire can kill the observer when only the special damage counts (which means just the symbol and not the number). It applies if your hit by fire out of trenches (hope that's the right word).

    Let me give an example:

    You are hit by fire out of trenchens (ground mission) and draw a card with the "fire" symbol and a "3", which means, the plane is on fire but doesn't take the 3 points damage.
    A second bullets hits the plane from the ground, now you draw a "pilot hit" card which shows a "3" as well. What happens? Pilot hit or observer hit?

    Under normal circumstances the observer was hit. But normaly the "3" does not count, cause it came from ground fire out of trenches.

  8. #8

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    I've got the Deluxe Set. The question was if the ground fire can kill the observer when only the special damage counts (which means just the symbol and not the number). It applies if you’re hit by fire out of trenches (hope that's the right word).

    Let me give an example:

    You are hit by fire out of trenches (ground mission) and draw a card with the "fire" symbol and a "3", which means, the plane is on fire but doesn't take the 3 points damage.
    A second bullet hits the plane from the ground, now you draw a "pilot hit" card which shows a "3" as well. What happens? Pilot hit or observer hit?

    Under normal circumstances the observer was hit. But normally the "3" does not count, cause it came from ground fire out of trenches.
    Last edited by Scoop; 11-30-2009 at 07:30.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    The question was if the ground fire can kill the observer when only the special damage counts (which means just the symbol and not the number). It applies if your hit by fire out of trenches (hope that's the right word).
    I would say that you can. In this case the printed damage would still be evaluated to determine the type of special damage inflicted, even though it would not be applied as damage to the aircraft.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
    A second bullet hits the plane from the ground, now you draw a "pilot hit" card which shows a "3" as well. What happens? Pilot hit or observer hit?
    Under normal circumstances the observer was hit. But normally the "3" does not count, cause it came from ground fire out of trenches.
    I'm not sure what you're asking here. If you're asking which crewman in a 2-seater is hit if you take crew damage from trench fire, then you still go by the damage points on the card to work out who is hit. In your example, the pilot would take a hit. If you'd drawn any other number with crew hit special damage, then it would have been the observer.

  11. #11

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    That's what I meant. Some people thought the number is "nonexistent" - which means the observer can't be hit by trenchfire at all. It also makes more sense to me now, thx!

  12. #12

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    Pilots get shot don't they?

  13. #13

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    We have, but mostly do not only because I am usually playing with younger players and need to keep it simple for now.

    IMO. that is the best part of this game, the ability to conduct a basic multiplane dogfight in a very short time or add any desired amount of complexity with the extra rules provided.

  14. #14

  15. #15

    colneher
    Guest


    Default

    Confused ... why ignore the damage value in favor of the special damage ... we apply EVERYTHING on the card ... so in a two seater, you take the damage of the card AND apply whether the hit is to the pilot or the observer ... those bullets are hitting all over the plane not just the person!


  16. #16

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    I take it you don't have Burning Drachens?

    In those rules, infantry fire from trenches and MG posts only cause special damage and ignore damage points. Presumably it was so hard for bolt-action rifle equipped troops to hit low flying aircraft that it's not worth counting the odd bullet that hits but doesn't cause any special effect.
    Last edited by IRM; 04-14-2011 at 12:54.

  17. #17


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    Default

    I do not bother, I think of the Explosion card represents Structural failure fuel or Pilot killed

  18. #18

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    I've never heard of it - not having deluxe set - but I like the idea, what I don't get is why the pilot takes a survivable hit the first time but the poor observer doesn't.

    "He is wise who watches"

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I've never heard of it - not having deluxe set - but I like the idea, what I don't get is why the pilot takes a survivable hit the first time but the poor observer doesn't.
    Just like in "The Empire Strikes Back". It's a hard life for the observers...
    Last edited by Ducalutra; 06-15-2010 at 01:28.

  20. #20

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    Also, in most planes the observer was more exposed than the pilot when he stood up to use his guns and you've already got the EXPLOSION card to cover pilot kills (and anything else that takes out a plane in one hit regardless of other damage).

    Flash, if you want to try it out it works like this: With single-seaters any OBSERVER WOUNDED card wounds the pilot. A second wound kills him. Wounded pilots take one more phase to unjam guns and can't shoot on phases they play Steep, Immelmann or Climb cards. With two-seaters only OBSERVER WOUNDED cards with 3pts damage affect the pilot instead of the observer (even if the observer is killed).
    Last edited by IRM; 04-14-2011 at 12:56.

  21. #21

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    To answer the original question only. We play the rule as it stands in the rules. However, having read how often the observer copped a packet, whilst the pilot got the crate home again, it does raise some interesting questions about the balance of the rules. I will certainly need to give this some more thought based on your observations.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #22

    Default

    Thanks Iain - I will give that a try next time out.

    "He is wise who watches"

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    To answer the original question only. We play the rule as it stands in the rules. However, having read how often the observer copped a packet, whilst the pilot got the crate home again, it does raise some interesting questions about the balance of the rules. I will certainly need to give this some more thought based on your observations.
    Rob.
    It could only happen that way, if the pilot copped a packet the observer woudn't get home.
    Don

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    To answer the original question only. We play the rule as it stands in the rules. However, having read how often the observer copped a packet, whilst the pilot got the crate home again, it does raise some interesting questions about the balance of the rules. I will certainly need to give this some more thought based on your observations.
    Rob.
    Missed your post when it went in, but I'd just like to point out that this isn't some house rule or something. It's exactly as the crew hit card is treated in the miniatures rules which came with the deluxe set (no two-seaters in the set).

  25. #25

    Default

    Ive never heard of it but will definatly give it a try, when we pull the observer hit most people laugh and say 'Missed me cause I dont have a two seater!' That'll put snakes in their basket!

  26. #26

    Default

    Flight of the Giants brings an interesting update to this issue. For the bombers, the "Observer Wounded" special damage is no longer secret, and there's a chit-drawing system to determine which gunner (or pilot) is hit when it is drawn. I can't think of any reason that couldn't extend to the 2-seaters as well. And for good measure, I think I'd personally use it for single-seater planes, where if they draw the "2" they're off the hook. And you can just toss the whole "3 hits the pilot" bit. You could probably take it another step, ditch the chits, and just roll a die for the results.

  27. #27

    Default

    Hi Burt.

    Oh contraire. I have read of several accounts of planes being landed by the observer. Some were dual control machines, but on at least two occasions the observer leaned over the pilot and actually flew the aircraft to a successful landing site.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  28. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IRM View Post
    Missed your post when it went in, but I'd just like to point out that this isn't some house rule or something. It's exactly as the crew hit card is treated in the miniatures rules which came with the deluxe set (no two-seaters in the set).
    Iain.
    Cant quite understand your post. I never mentioned house rules. I said.Quote. "We play the rules as it stands in the rules". unquote.
    Respectfully yours. Kyte.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  29. #29

    Default

    Sorry, I must have misunderstood your post, I thought your phrase meant that you thought it wasn't an official rule.

  30. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IRM View Post
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood your post, I thought your phrase meant that you thought it wasn't an official rule.
    I guessed you must have. We were singing from the same song sheet all the time.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  31. #31

    Default from ronald

    yes we like to do it! it add to the game!

  32. #32

    Default

    Has anyone here ever considered creating a Rules FAQ to answer questions like ones brought up in this thread or others? With so many different rule books out there it is getting complicated at times.
    Ken Head - "The Cowman"
    “You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.” Robin Williams

  33. #33

    Default

    Not a FAQ, but I did upload a compilation of the rules based off the Deluxe Set version (which I regard to be the most complete) which at least gets everything before Flight Of The Giants in the one place, and tidied up a bit.

    Could be worth knocking together a new FAQ, the official one is out of date. Trouble is that everyone's right, depending on which rulebook they use, so it could just add to the confusion !
    Last edited by IRM; 12-16-2010 at 15:53.

  34. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Hi Burt.

    Oh contraire. I have read of several accounts of planes being landed by the observer. Some were dual control machines, but on at least two occasions the observer leaned over the pilot and actually flew the aircraft to a successful landing site.
    Rob.
    True enough! Just read a similar account of such an event in Hart's "Aces Falling". Had a difficult time picturing it though.....the observer could grab the stick, but what about control surfaces....turns? Couldn't reach the pedals....or were WW I aircraft that different from modern planes? But, there it is.....it DID happen!

  35. #35

    Default

    I'm guessing the "successful landing" is of the "any one you can walk away from" variety

    (As opposed to a perfect landing, which is any one that lets you take off again !)

  36. #36

    Default

    We've typically played with the special damage resulting in the observer buying the farm, regardless. I knew that some rules had the split between the two, wasn't sure which one though.

    I'm personally in favor of it as observer only. As stated earlier, the explosion card is just as likely to be a shot in head/heart as it is showy fireworks. Heck, even some of the damage point system is an abstraction of pilot wounds as well as the sturdiness of the aircraft. *insert shoulder shrug here* All in all, I'm ok with either option, but I prefer simple.

  37. #37

    Default

    Hmm...seems I'm a little late to this one...but we use the pilot wounded as a normal course of play...pretty much agree with Iain's posts on the topic...

  38. #38

    Default

    I only came across this rule via this site and the rules compilation in the files section as i do not own the minis set, however since discovering it we have incorporated it into our campaign, as yet though it hasnt come up.

  39. #39

  40. #40

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    Yup! We use this special optional pilot rule.



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