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View Poll Results: Do you play WoW or Dow with altitude rules?

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  • Yes, I play with altitude rules

    83 48.82%
  • No, I don't use them

    49 28.82%
  • I use them sometimes (explain when)

    38 22.35%
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Thread: Do you play WoW or Dow with altitude rules?

  1. #1

    Default Do you play WoW or Dow with altitude rules?

    I wonder if you guys play with or without altitude rules.

  2. #2

    Default

    Usually. Only drop them in really big games or when there's new players present.

  3. #3

    Default

    Allways even with new people, we all have to learn.

  4. #4

    Default

    I voted no mostly because I haven't found an altitude rule set that I like enough to warrant the extra complication. Having said that I want to include altitude and I have a few ideas for house rules that I'm slowly developing and will post on the off chance they ever work

  5. #5

    Default

    I really like DoW altitude rules. It fits well with the mechanics of the game. WoW is alright although most don't want to use them when we play.

    Tom

  6. #6

    Default Yes to Altitude

    I think some form of altitude play should always be used...

    If there was no altitude we would be just playing an infantry game...

  7. #7

    Default

    I voted yes because I use a highly simplified altitude system. It greatly enhances the game without slowing it down

  8. #8

    Default

    I do not use any altitude rules, yet. I love the simplicity of the game, and I think the official altitude rules take that away. I intend starting to use the simplified altitude rules available at the files section though, mostly because it makes two-seaters less powerful.

  9. #9

    Default

    Except for the real young ones we always have, otherwise it's a bit like a naval battle without the water - missing something important!!

  10. #10

    Default

    Not yet.. I plan to integrate it in our games but for now we keep it simple

  11. #11

    Default

    We have used them ever since the start. However, the Col's dials have made it much more simple, and when I am feeling lazy, I often don't bother removing the pegs now. I just play to the dials.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  12. #12

    Default

    Use them for WoW and DoW the game would not be the same without them. My personal view is that if you don't use the altitude rules you may as well just use the cards.

  13. #13

    Default

    I voted no mostly because I haven't found an altitude rule set that I like enough. The official rules add extra complication without giving a good feedback in gaming. The game session is generally short (for me correctly) so the altitude rules are not adequate. I think the climb movement should be faster. You should be able to get even by making a turning left/right. It should be possible play more climb movement consecutively. ThereThe difference in height should give a strong shooting bonus or malus.
    Daniele

  14. #14

    g.paoletti's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d@niele View Post
    I voted no mostly because I haven't found an altitude rule set that I like enough. The official rules add extra complication without giving a good feedback in gaming. The game session is generally short (for me correctly) so the altitude rules are not adequate. I think the climb movement should be faster. You should be able to get even by making a turning left/right. It should be possible play more climb movement consecutively. ThereThe difference in height should give a strong shooting bonus or malus.
    Daniele
    I agree with d@niele mainly because the altitude often makes the game slower (less damage inflicted).
    But we always use the altidude rules.
    Actually d@niele and I are playing in the same group.

    G.

  15. #15

    Default

    We avoided them in the begining as they didn't read well. Once we tried them, we use them all the time, for both WoW and DoW.

  16. #16

    Default

    When i Play with New Players i avoid them. And if we just want to play a quick Game.

  17. #17

    Default

    Bah to the 'flat earthers'! It's not an air game without altitude.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick62 View Post
    Bah to the 'flat earthers'! It's not an air game without altitude.


    Rob.

  19. #19

    Default

    Use the altitude rules with big people and tend not to for the cannibal pygmies that seem to associate with my son.

  20. #20

    Default

    I always use altitude rules - it is an aerial combat game. Regarding new players, I have found it easier in the long run to introduce them from the start. As long as you as teacher are all over altitude rules it is not an issue. I use altimeters to help keep track of climb counters, easier than using the counters themselves.

  21. #21

    Default

    Somethimes, when I'm using all the rules (almost everytime)
    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick62 View Post
    Bah to the 'flat earthers'! It's not an air game without altitude.


    Nick

  22. #22

    Default

    I find that by using the altitude rules it makes the game more exciting, as when I game against Hayden it soon turns into a game of cat and mouse every time with me trying to pin his planes in place so I can riddle them with bullets, once we learnt how to use the altitude rules it's made our games more realistic.

  23. #23

    Default

    Agreed, with the new rules it makes it straightforward. Love it now!

  24. #24

    Default

    Voted sometimes as we only usually use them in our campaigns ,we usually leave them out in our "for fun" games at home and for first tiime players

  25. #25

    Default

    For me altitude is a yes. However I would like to see climb combined with dive. As I have previously stated in other threads the lighter aircraft climb faster but the slower climbers dive faster. Surely if you have one you must include the other. I have some ideas that I am working through. The main aim is to keep the game simple, quick and retain the fun aspect without getting bogged down with book keeping etc.

  26. #26

    Default

    I prefer playing with; at some point, I'd like to try Chris' (csadn) altitude rules.
    Karl

  27. #27

    Default

    I always play with altitude rules, it is quite more interesting than the other way. I firmly believe that playing airplane game without altitude is similar to eating sausage without mustard

  28. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    I always play with altitude rules, it is quite more interesting than the other way. I firmly believe that playing airplane game without altitude is similar to eating sausage without mustard
    Ahh a man after my own heart(burn)! Sadly, my loving wife delikes mustard, which prevents many sauces being added to the meals
    I will admit that the lack of altitude rules caused me to discard without playing the Crimson Sky board game.
    Karl

  29. #29

    adler64
    Guest


    Default

    I didn't, but tried them the other day and I will now. Hardly noticed it at all with the old Fokker EIII vs DH2, but the faster rate of climb planes will benefit greatly. Added benefits, for no real added complexity. I believe it will help when attacking bombers and two seaters. Really tough w/o altitude rules.

  30. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginarley View Post
    I voted no mostly because I haven't found an altitude rule set that I like enough to warrant the extra complication. Having said that I want to include altitude and I have a few ideas for house rules that I'm slowly developing and will post on the off chance they ever work
    Did you ever get your house rules worked out? We simplified the system by abandoning different climb rates (and therefore the need to mess with climb counters); you just play a climb card to go up one level and a dive card to go down one. The "Immelmann" maneuver that reverses your airplane's direction is now preceded by either a climb or dive card instead of a straight move. It's simple enough for absolute beginners to understand and it works

  31. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Ross View Post
    Did you ever get your house rules worked out? We simplified the system by abandoning different climb rates (and therefore the need to mess with climb counters); you just play a climb card to go up one level and a dive card to go down one. The "Immelmann" maneuver that reverses your airplane's direction is now preceded by either a climb or dive card instead of a straight move. It's simple enough for absolute beginners to understand and it works
    we use exactly the same system.

    dive -1 token
    climb+1 token
    straight .. reverse ...straight no difference
    stall.....reverse...straight + 1 token
    dive...reverse....straight -1 token

    we play with kids ranging 9 to 16 so its the best way to avoid climb counters

  32. #32

    Default

    I use them sometimes as I find that they slow the game down a great deal. I think it is a good idea to have altitude in play but the added complication is sometimes not worth it. I have just read on this thread that there are optional altitude rules in the files section so I think I will have a look at these.

    Mark.

  33. #33

    Default

    Altitude makes the game so much more interesting. Maintaining a height advantage means you can pick and choose when you attack, and avoid unfavourable conditions such as trading shots head to head. After you play a couple of games with altitude it becomes second nature.

  34. #34

    Default

    Going to buck the trend here.
    Despite the obvious added realism, generally I dont use altitude in the display games, the simplicity of the system is what we are trying to hook players with, after that it is up to the players.

    In the Avon campaign we dont usually use altitude as it does slow the game down somewhat and we only have a limited amount of time.

    But I dont mind using altitude if others Im playing with/against want to use altitude, I have plenty of pegs now for adding altitude plus the Oberst bases with dials.

  35. #35

    Default

    I don't use them. My experience has been that their use has slowed the game down considerably for very little apparent benefit. I was surprised to find that, at the Prague SummerCon this year no-one was all that keen on using them and a number of attendees also said they didn't like or use them.

  36. #36

    Default

    As a mainly solo player I don't use altitude rules but am considering it. I just need to find a set of rules that allows the AI to to decide climb/dive instead of just chasing me up and down the ladder. Sometimes against multi crew aircraft, when it comes to the shooting phase I throw a dice for each single seater attacking the bomber, 1-2 = below bomber 3-4 = level 5-6 = above. It works for now until I find something better.

  37. #37

    Exclamation

    Depends on the Game & if we have novice/first time players at our Club.
    We do try to at least use simplified Altitude if experienced players are gaming.

  38. #38

    Default

    I will use altitude rules, only if I can't avoid them. I will go with majority at a game, but feel they slow things down so much as to ruin the flavor of the game. Feels like playing poker with a 12 suit, 40 numbers, 30 faces, deck of 800 - adds a lot of detail, but sort of ruins the flavor.

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brambo View Post
    As a mainly solo player I don't use altitude rules but am considering it. I just need to find a set of rules that allows the AI to to decide climb/dive instead of just chasing me up and down the ladder. Sometimes against multi crew aircraft, when it comes to the shooting phase I throw a dice for each single seater attacking the bomber, 1-2 = below bomber 3-4 = level 5-6 = above. It works for now until I find something better.
    Neat Idea Trev will try that on the next mission.

  40. #40

    Default

    Playing solo makes it tricky, but there must be a way of getting an AI pilot to climb or dive as desired.

  41. #41

    DTH1138`'s Avatar
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    Devin
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    Default

    I said sometimes because I've just started to include altitude. I think what will solidify it for me with ALWAYS using the altitude rules will be when I invest in better stands than the pegs that come with the game. The less fiddling I need to do with the model, the better. I think I've seen telescopic stands and I really like the magnetic ball joint ones, too.

  42. #42

    Default

    Hello!
    usually i play with altitude rule plus somtimes advanced rules also!
    i love play with the full game rules!

  43. #43

    Default

    Played using the altitude rules for the first time during our last gaming session. I'll need to play them a few more times to become more comfortable with them, but I liked them overall.

  44. #44

    Default

    In no way am I intending to critise other members views but I cannot see how by useing the Altitude rules it makes the game slower or more complicated? I have always used these rule right from when I first started playing this game roughly 5 years ago.

  45. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    In no way am I intending to critise other members views but I cannot see how by useing the Altitude rules it makes the game slower or more complicated? I have always used these rule right from when I first started playing this game roughly 5 years ago.
    I have said this before Alastair, it's an aerial combat game so I always teach new players to use altitude rules straight off the bat.

    It's only when you start without altitude and try to introduce it later you get resistance, because people like what they are used to, it's just human nature.

  46. #46

    Default

    I have to agree with Alastair and Carl on this.
    However, as I exclusively use the Oberst's bases with inbuilt climb counters, maybe I'm not the best one to prognosticate upon the speed of play. They make checking the various aircraft for height so much quicker.
    Rob.

  47. #47

    Default

    Sometimes we are looking for just a quick game between another more complex wargame that we play, so no altitude works. If, however, we are playing WOW for keeps, then we use altitude (though we have always found them time-killers). We just read Flash's simplified rules and we are looking forward to trying them.

  48. #48

    Default

    I play the altitude rules with my 12 yr old daughter, and we have really only just started. Not sure if we're doing it quite right, but we're having fun, and will bug the Wing Co at Derby World Wargames for tips

  49. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbiggles View Post
    I play the altitude rules with my 12 yr old daughter, and we have really only just started. Not sure if we're doing it quite right, but we're having fun, and will bug the Wing Co at Derby World Wargames for tips
    Be glad to help John, although we will probably not be using altitude for most games at Derby, as it confuses new players.
    Rob.

  50. #50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Ross View Post
    Did you ever get your house rules worked out? We simplified the system by abandoning different climb rates (and therefore the need to mess with climb counters); you just play a climb card to go up one level and a dive card to go down one. The "Immelmann" maneuver that reverses your airplane's direction is now preceded by either a climb or dive card instead of a straight move. It's simple enough for absolute beginners to understand and it works
    I think these rules might be used by people more often if the rule books were structured differently. In my limited experience, I've found the Basic-Standard-Advanced structure has encouraged people to play the game a la carte, and once people have tried out the Basic and adopted a few Standard, they're pretty much done with experimentation. Heck, I had to convince my local group to try the official bombing rules which were originally perceived as too much bother, even though the group had invested in Vals, Stukas, a Heinkel and a B-25 (They just ran their bombers from one side of the table to the other as a bombing run).

    So as a result I haven't yet played with altitude in either or WGF or WGS. Other than my local group's aversion, I've found people generally avoid altitude rules in convention games as well. It seems people believe they'll add complications and time to the game, making it hard to start and finish in an evening. I'm a little frustrated by this atitude, since I feel a aerial game without altitude plays like bumper cars (and the way I fly that's more accurate than you'd think). I also feel that the official record-keeping runs against the perceived simplicity of the game. I really like Albert's simplifications though, and combining them with the Aerodrome's altitude stands looks like a great solution.

    I'm fortunate that my son is game to try flying altitude with me, and if it all works out, maybe I can convince the locals to try it to.
    Last edited by Savoir Faire; 08-17-2014 at 12:18.

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