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Thread: Stats for DFW C.V ?

  1. #1

    Default Stats for DFW C.V ?

    My gaming group and i are reaching midsummer 1916 and its about time to get a new 2-seater. We thought about the DFW C.V which will be available later that year but sadly there are no stats for the plane so far. Has anyone came up with some realistic stats? I would appreciate some tipps.
    cheers

  2. #2

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    The threads for discussing unofficial planes are housed in Historical Discussions using the 'Unofficial Plane' tag. Is there any way that this thread could be moved over there. It would be nice to keep all of these discussions together.

  3. #3

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    Let the Col. know by PM. When he returns he will move it over. He usually spots these things himself, but with over a weeks mail to catch up with, a prompt may be in order for once. I suggest that we do NOT add any further posts to this thread until he has had time to move it.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  4. #4

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    my bad, i thought unofficial rules/stats for planes would belong to the house rules section. cheers

  5. #5

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    The thread has moved

    So you may now give me some insight

  6. #6

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    Let's start off with a basic stat block from wikipedia:
    General characteristics
    * Wing area: 42.5 m² (457 ft²)
    * Empty weight: 970 kg (2140 lb)
    * Max takeoff weight: 1,430 kg (3,146 lb)
    * Powerplant: 1× 185 hp N.A.G. C.III or Benz Bz.IV 6 cylinder, water cooled, straight engine, 138 kW or 149 kW (185 hp or 200 hp)

    Performance
    * Maximum speed: 155 km/h (96 mph)
    * Service ceiling: 5,000 m (16,400 ft)

    Armament
    * 1 × 7.92 mm MG-08/15 (Spandau) fixed machine gun with a synchronizing gear
    * 1 × 7.92 mm Parabellum MG14 machine gun on a ring mounting
    * 100 kg of bombs
    -------------------------------
    The maximum speed suggests that it should have a 'Very Slow' maneuver deck - something like the G or P deck, likely with the Immelmann removed. One gun in each direction is an easy B/B. Maximum altitude would be around 10. Not sure about the damage points or climb rate.

    That's just a very basic stab. We need a bit more information for the climb rate, and some comparisons with other 'known' aircraft would be good. Anyone have a lead on any first-hand accounts of maneuverability, reliability, and so forth?

  7. #7

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    I have no insight on what the stats should be, but I agree that this plane is a "must-have" for me in this game. Long operational history, wide usage, and respect from its opponents make it a workhorse for Germany. McCudden said of one that "at last I broke off the combat, for the Hun was too good for me and had shot me about a lot. Had I persisted he certainly would have got me, for there was not a trick he did not know, so I gave that liver-coloured DFW best" (Herris and Pearson, "Aircraft of World War I, 1914-1918," p. 148). This may be more a tribute to this particular crew than the plane, but they would not have kept it in the air so long had it not been good (in my opinion).

    Doug

  8. #8

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    I would suspect a climbing rate of 4, because it could climb way faster as the Roland C.II but not as fast as a Nieuport 17. So it must be something in between. Don't knoiw about Hitpoints either, but i guess the same as the roland
    Last edited by graysin1337; 06-11-2011 at 06:43.

  9. #9

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    So... as a tentative guess:

    G* . B/B . 16 Climb 4, Max Alt 10

    *Deck minus Immelmann

  10. #10

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    16 seems high for a 1916 aircraft. What was it constructed from? I would go for 14
    Linz

  11. #11

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    16 seems high to me as well, but i have found no data how sturdily it was. But 14 seems to less. I would go for 15, the same as the Roland C.II as its also a german 1916 2-Seater unless someone finds some data which compares the two.

    cheers

  12. #12

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    The compromise of 15 seems about right to me as well, considering what information we have to go on.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  13. #13

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    It apparently had a reputation as a durable plane. The construction, I believe was standard semi-monocoque, but it had a metal-covered strut in the tail for reinforcing. Interestingly, there were also apparently reports that its maneuverability rivaled that of the Bris Fit.

    (Info from Rise of Flight website. Not sure how accurate it is.)

  14. #14

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    Mhh sadly i don't own a Bristol Carddeck and the Files section also doesn't offer one. Otherwise i would have compared it to one of slower decks (P,G,R,E). If there is one with the same maneuvers, we could use that. Also is the S-Deck capable of performing an immelmann? Maybe it 16 HP as well, because the Brisfit has 16.

  15. #15

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    I also don't own an S deck and I can't find any pictures of one online. It would be nice to know what special maneuvers are in one.

    As for the damage, I would also be tempted to go with 16. The DFW is bigger than both the Roland and the BrisFit, and it had a reputation for durability. It doesn't seem to be too big a stretch to give it the larger damage rating. (That said, I would be content with 15 also. There's not that much of a difference.)

  16. #16

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    The S deck is a fast deck (like the C) and only has 2 standard sideslips in either direction, plus Immelmann. No tight turns or steep sideslips.

  17. #17

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    So as a resumé then the DFW C. V should be G* B/B 16** Climb 4 MaxAltitude 10

    *including Immelmann as G-Deck seems identical to the S-Deck only slower
    ** until further information to compare

    Does that seem correct?

  18. #18

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    When they were comparing the maneuverability to the BrisFit, I suspect that they were simply talking out turning radius and climb/dive speeds. The DFW was a larger plane (in terms of width and wing area), it was much slower, and had a much less powerful engine (and so a much lower power-to-weight ratio). I'm not convinced that the Immelmann would be a valid maneuver for the DFW based on the one comment from the one source. Bear in mind, also that the BrisFit was designed as a fighter while the DFW was not.

    Without further research, I would have to say that it would be G* (without Immelmann).
    The rest seems good.

  19. #19

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    I stand corrected

  20. #20

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    Looking at climb rates and ceilings. I would go for Climb rate of 5 (4 mins to 1000m and 49mins to 5000m) and ceiling of 5000m would be 11
    In relation to the damage the CV had the same basic airframe as the earlier CIV and is the same plane as the Aviatik CVI as such I would go for a much lower damage than the Roland a it is an older airframe. I would go 14
    So G B/B 14 Climb rate 5 Ceiling 11
    Linz

  21. #21

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    I take it that the climb rate and max alt are in line with your tables. As such, I have no problem with them.

    I'd be ok with lowering the damage rating as well; perhaps not quite down to 14. A compromise at 15? (This was suggested earlier, but we opted for the higher value based on reported reliability. The airframe data is better, though. We didn't have that info before.)

  22. #22

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    I'm happy with 15.
    So G B/B 15 climb rate 5 Ceiling 11
    Linz

  23. #23

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    Updated the master list.

  24. #24

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    When you edit the master list, could you add a reply stating what you added? When you simply edit the post it doesn't bring the thread back up to the "top."

  25. #25

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by steel_ratt View Post
    Updated the master list.
    Hi Jon,

    where can I find the master list?

    Matthias

  27. #27

  28. #28

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    Thanks a lot!



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