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View Poll Results: Do you play with the explosion card in damage deck(s)?

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  • Yes

    300 79.58%
  • No

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Thread: Do you play with the explosion card in damage deck(s)?

  1. #51

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    Yes!....adds much more flavor to the game. We have started using the critical hit deck in the files section as this seems to add even more fun & atmosphere!

    We do usually fly two planes each, so it's not a total loss. We also are very friendly gamers. if someone was knocked out they can work their way back in.

  2. #52

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    Where can you find this critical hit deck?

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aero825 View Post
    Where can you find this critical hit deck?
    Here you go: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...do=file&id=409

  4. #54

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    I don't use it, as it's very discouraging to new players if they explode before getting any action (although I do quite like the idea of shuffling it into the lower half of the deck to counteract this).

    Having said that, we do say that if you draw a fire card while already on fire you explode.

  5. #55

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    The fire-on-fire death rule has potential, I think.

  6. #56

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    And what about a smoke+smoke=fire rule? Anyone ever think about that?

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugburz View Post
    By the way, thanks Lugz.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Z View Post
    Yes!....adds much more flavor to the game. We have started using the critical hit deck in the files section as this seems to add even more fun & atmosphere!

    We do usually fly two planes each, so it's not a total loss. We also are very friendly gamers. if someone was knocked out they can work their way back in.
    I'll bring mine down when I come in August. There fun to use.

    Tom

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aero825 View Post
    And what about a smoke+smoke=fire rule? Anyone ever think about that?
    Oh yep, we do that too. Great minds eh?

  10. #60

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    We usually have eight to ten players and as we dont want them sitting out a long game we play the explosion card as 6 damage and a fire.

  11. #61

    Keydet83
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    Every pilot knows you are always one second away from disaster--the explosion card proves it.

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keydet83 View Post
    Every pilot knows you are always one second away from disaster--the explosion card proves it.
    If that were to be accurately represented, there'd be a boom-card in the *maneuver* deck as well.

  13. #63

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    Our house-rule is to deal it into the bottom half of the deck.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    If that were to be accurately represented, there'd be a boom-card in the *maneuver* deck as well.
    Would you ever chose that as your next move?

    /Niclas

  15. #65

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    We are going to dispense with the explosion card for our public partiscipation games as they could end very quickly and we want to encourage new members. However in club games we do use them although I do like the idea of taking up a second plane if you explode in the first five rounds of combat as mentioned above.

  16. #66

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    For the school club I run, I take the boom out of the A and B decks, but I used the C deck for base-over-peg collisions. I use the C deck as-is, so a chance of a bang there. I am trying to teach the kids to think about the other users of the airspace

    Dave

  17. #67

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    It's a bit of a double edged sword. Everyone likes to see someone else draw it but it's that horrible pit of the stomach/kicked-in-the-nuts feeling when it's you and as we know it can premarturely end a close game. Always spectacular; always controversial!

    I tend to remove it for first time (u16) players. For older first timers I keep it in but don't count it if they catch it, but explain its effect on the game. If I happen to take it then they get an easy kill and a smile on thier face.

    As part of a campaign (and our own House Rules), we count the explosion as 10: sometimes it's catastrophic (i.e. if you already have damage) whilst other times it makes you weigh up whether it's worth staying in the fight or if it's better to make a run for home/getting it on the deck, which imho is probably a more realistic result.

  18. #68

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    We hates them! They ALWAYS finds ussssss.s.s.s.s.s.s. My precious and me hates them!
    Just my vote of course! Clipper and Smeegle

  19. #69

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    I always use it. It would feel less true if I took the explosion out. But for me, the explosion doesn't mean AN EXPLOSION, it's just that something was wrong enough to shoot down the plane immediately.

  20. #70

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    I always use the explosion card. So many fliers were shot down on the first burst! If it happens early in the game I allow the guy to put the plane on the mat again. It really does not ruin the game I feel it enhances it. Instead of getting one victory I'll try for two. But I guess it all depends on whom you are playing with, the group I play with are all layed back and just enjoy trying different scenarios does not matter if it is even or not. The best wins are when the odds are against you.

  21. #71

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    John. The best wins are ALWAYS when the odds are against you!!

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    John. The best wins are ALWAYS when the odds are against you!!
    I stand corrected. Very well said.

  23. #73

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    I have played six times so far. I have exploded 3 times!

  24. #74

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    Definately use the explosion cards. Makes it more intense knowing that the one shot could hit the gas and instantly kill you.

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
    I always use the explosion card. So many fliers were shot down on the first burst! If it happens early in the game I allow the guy to put the plane on the mat again.
    That being the case: Why bother having it at all?

    The explosion card fails one of the basics of Good Game Design: Never eliminate a player early in the game. (See _The Kobold Guide to Board Game Design_, p. 85.)

  26. #76

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    First: I'm absolutely FOR the explosion card.

    But I recently detected a serious flaw in our way of dealing with our damage decks in our ongoing WOW/WOG campaign and it has to do with that specific card.
    What we do is to reshuffle the deck each time a plane is downed, adding to the existing deck(s) the cards used on the plane in question. That way, even when playing with larger quantities of planes (10+), we rarely or never have an empty deck.
    The problem is that we are playing with the A deck from the "Burning Dragons" box... it has only 35 cards!

    Now, imagine that we are coming to the last 5 or so cards and the explosion card is still in there.
    You take some damage and, as is happens, it's the BOOM.
    Put all the cards (2? 3?) that the destroyed plane had on it's cockpit, along with the BOOM into the deck and reshuffle.
    Now, the likelihood of getting the same BOOM is quite high again.
    So, in the last 3 games we played, I lost 5 out of 6 planes that way, if not more.

    Solution? From now on, we'll use both A decks (70 + 35 = 105 cards) and reshuffle only when this deck is empty!
    It occurred to me after 'only' 24 games... I'm so stupid that it's a picture of me that appears on Wikipedia in the article about the word "moron"!

  27. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    That being the case: Why bother having it at all?

    The explosion card fails one of the basics of Good Game Design: Never eliminate a player early in the game. (See _The Kobold Guide to Board Game Design_, p. 85.)
    It gives you a victory and another chance at another with that being said we are a bunch of laid back old guys it does not matter that much if you get shot down what matters is the companionship and having fun trying different scenarios. I'll fly a Nieuport 17 with a single gun against a Albatros D.III with two guns if it what the scenario calls for. What I do not like is flying the best against the best. One guy that is no longer with us just wanted to fly the Snipe and I just do not see the enjoyment of it. We do not keep score, we fly for all countries and no one rubs it in if you get shot down.

  28. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
    It gives you a victory and another chance at another with that being said we are a bunch of laid back old guys it does not matter that much if you get shot down what matters is the companionship and having fun trying different scenarios. I'll fly a Nieuport 17 with a single gun against a Albatros D.III with two guns if it what the scenario calls for. What I do not like is flying the best against the best. One guy that is no longer with us just wanted to fly the Snipe and I just do not see the enjoyment of it. We do not keep score, we fly for all countries and no one rubs it in if you get shot down.
    That is one of the joys of the big bang theory John. The look on the face of the Guy with the Snipe when he pulls the Bang card. Death is a great leveller.
    I bet when your little Nieuport takes down a DVII it is a greater pleasure than he will ever get.
    Rob.

  29. #79

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    Bilbo.
    I now have three decks of each A,B,C,D in my box to draw from. This was because with KoTA we use limited Ammo, and we were finding the communal deck very quickly depleted. This does mean that in an ordinary game we do not now have to put cards back into the main deck until the game is over. I have a spare A deck doing nothing. If you would like it to augment your decks at no extra cost to you except a contribution of your own choice to the Drome let me know and I'll send it over.
    Rob.

  30. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    That being the case: Why bother having it at all?

    The explosion card fails one of the basics of Good Game Design: Never eliminate a player early in the game. (See _The Kobold Guide to Board Game Design_, p. 85.)
    I couldn't disagree more with you on this. I think that The Kobold Guide to Board Game Design should take a check on reality here. I hate board games that create artificial rules to impose a "philosophy" of what is right. Losing or dying early on the game on account of a system that simulates reality never did bother me. It is the opposite that does so.

  31. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    That being the case: Why bother having it at all?
    Agreed. The philosophy of "let the 'exploded player' right back into the game" never really made sense to me either. Where's the drama in that?

    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    The explosion card fails one of the basics of Good Game Design: Never eliminate a player early in the game. (See _The Kobold Guide to Board Game Design_, p. 85.)
    I understand the philosophy, and adhere to it more-or-less. I like the explosions being there, but when you have people drive an hour to get to your house to play a game, there's not much fun in them getting eliminated in the first five minutes. That's why our house rule is to shuffle the explosions into the bottom half of the deck. Doing that evokes the "ticking time-bomb" feeling. The deeper into the deck one gets, the more anxious one becomes with each flip of the card. That's excitement. Pulling the explosion when you are one card away from escaping off of the table for a win... THAT is excitement!


  32. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Bilbo.
    I now have three decks of each A,B,C,D in my box to draw from. This was because with KoTA we use limited Ammo, and we were finding the communal deck very quickly depleted. This does mean that in an ordinary game we do not now have to put cards back into the main deck until the game is over. I have a spare A deck doing nothing. If you would like it to augment your decks at no extra cost to you except a contribution of your own choice to the Drome let me know and I'll send it over.
    Rob.
    Three decks wow!!! I use two because I do not have three and like yourself never reshuffle.

  33. #83

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    [QUOTE= when you have people drive an hour to get to your house to play a game, there's not much fun in them getting eliminated in the first five minutes. QUOTE]

    Example of a good explosion card game.
    3 players (or whatever) per side. Each side's airfield has a six plane squadron. When players gets the explosion card or is shot down, they have up to 3 planes and pilots to draw from (first come first served). That will keep even a unlucky player, in most of the game.

  34. #84

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    Obviously there are as many takes on this game as you want to use. Each to his own says I. Circumstances dictate that we often have different criteria to meet. If you are flexible in your approach to rules, you can taylor them to meet the circumstances, rather than have one hard and fast rule for all seasons. If you would like an example have a look at the AAR I have just posted in the Over the Trenches mission 3. How to dig yourself out of an explosion that would have ruined the story for everyone else. When the card came up I had to think on my feet, which isn't as easy as it sounds when Kyte has been plying you with G&T all day.
    Rob.

  35. #85

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    always use them and fight to keep them in the deck. good/lucky shots happened all of the time!!

  36. #86

  37. #87

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    Yeah, except that "some animals are more equal than others"!
    It's always ME who gets them!

  38. #88

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    For big demos, we usually take them out for the first 4 or 5 turns, then add them and reshuffle with great ceremony. And yes, when a plane goes down, those cards are always reshuffled at once.

    We use different draw decks for each side and sometimes will make the addition die roll dependent, per deck...so like after 3-4 turns, roll a d6 per allied A and B deck, ditto per the two German. First roll for a 6, next turn a 5-6, etc. That adds more drama and a nice edge of non-semetrical possibility.

    In either case, a quick shoot down, from any cause, doesn't remove a player who can stay. While the " already damaged" idea would work, we prefer to give him an un damaged, but weaker, plane. This was easier in the pre-miniatures version, with extra planes like the N-11 or Halberstadt D. Still, depending on your mix, there are some minies much weaker than others. The player starts over (possibly on the other side, depending on attrition) and the foes don't mind a weaker target. Win/win.

    I made up some extra booms and big number hits. When the scenario is running long or the night goes late (and we wont replace downed planes) we will beef up the lethality of the deck and that helps too.

    Big demo work can be like a good jam session (tho not a good term for our game!)

  39. #89

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    We playing also with the explosion cards. It adds a lof of uncertainity (and fun)

    Exploding too fast is also not that bad since it is a fast playing game and we used to play 4 game at a night :-)

  40. #90

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    We always include the explosion card in our games.
    If someone new to the game is joining in and I'm shuffling the deck then I sometimes push the explosions 1/3 down the deck so they get a chance to learn to play before it comes up.

  41. #91

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    Given the frequency of first pass kills by pilots on both sides, the explosion card is an essential component of simulation (even if WoW is more a game).
    Players need to take the risks pilots did. Nor could pilots do math like "I can take five more hits, so I'll go head to head...."

    Rocky

  42. #92

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    yes it adds a little bang to the game

  43. #93

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    It's probably fairly late in the game to add my comment on this issue. But since none of the previous members seems to have come up with the house rule I adhere to, I'll go ahead and give the following option into consideration:

    I keep the explosion-card in all damage decks and apply alternating results depending on the reason for which the damage card was drawn.
    As a result of machine-gun fire the recipient takes 10 points of damage. It's nearly always fatal but, if it's enough to take you down, you've been in the game at least long enough to have taken some previous hits.
    If, on the other hand, the explosion-card is drawn as a result of fire-inflicted damage, a crash during landing or take-off, a collision or a hit by rockets (oh, If only I would have ever been so lucky as to take an opponent out like that): then you are irrevocably fried.

    In my mind this option does enough justice to the severity of the explosion-card, whilst keeping its game-killing potential in check without the need to remove it altogether.

  44. #94

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome, Sijbrand - Don't forget to report in!

    Your house rule actually not a bad one. May give it a try.

    Btw, lots of threads on here come back to life every now and again - because there are new pilots, because an old pilot who has missed the first it time around stumble upon it, someone has a change of heart or has thought of something new, etc. It's part of the charm of this community and one of the things that makes it so vital (I think).

    /Niclas

  45. #95

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    Welcome to the 'Drome, Sijbrand!
    I make my own Niclas words.

  46. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sijpe View Post
    It's probably fairly late in the game to add my comment on this issue. But since none of the previous members seems to have come up with the house rule I adhere to, I'll go ahead and give the following option into consideration:

    I keep the explosion-card in all damage decks and apply alternating results depending on the reason for which the damage card was drawn.
    As a result of machine-gun fire the recipient takes 10 points of damage. It's nearly always fatal but, if it's enough to take you down, you've been in the game at least long enough to have taken some previous hits.
    If, on the other hand, the explosion-card is drawn as a result of fire-inflicted damage, a crash during landing or take-off, a collision or a hit by rockets (oh, If only I would have ever been so lucky as to take an opponent out like that): then you are irrevocably fried.

    In my mind this option does enough justice to the severity of the explosion-card, whilst keeping its game-killing potential in check without the need to remove it altogether.
    How do deal a Bomber they stand a 10 point Hit easy

  47. #97

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    Always use it - In fact I was the victim of it just yesterday - 1 camel & 1 Re8 vs 1 pfalz & 1 UFAG. My Re8 exploded the first turn it was hit(!) but I would not have it any other way! I ended up losing the camel too when the UFAG collided with it & the camel did not have enough hit points left to keep flying - the game was a 0-2 loss for me but very enjoyable!

  48. #98

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    We play with the explosions in.

    We also play with an "out of control" rule. You must play a stall and a dive (and one card of your choice) every turn once "shot down". An explosion sets your damage to 0, and if you are over -5, your plane disintegrates. Note that if you play a dive, straight, stall starting at level 1, you land successfully on a suitable landing site.

    If the pilot lands successfully, then depending on the scenario, you give them a new plane etc.

    Usually we play it so the landing must be in friendly territory, with a 3-turn delay, and when they come on they're at level 0 with one climb counter - having taken off in a spare crate they had handy just for such an eventuality as a broken fuel line, shot away controls etc.

  49. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhary View Post
    How do deal a Bomber they stand a 10 point Hit easy
    Congrats to Hershall for shooting me down so effortlessly and thus prompting me to rethink my logic in the middle of the night.

    The explosion-card option, as I have suggested it, alters the official rulings in just one single crucial aspect. An explosion-card drawn as a result of machine-gun fire gets tuned down to merely represent a certain (admittingly arbitrary...) amount of damage points. The aim being that it will normally prevent anybody from being knocked out of the game at an early stage. But it will nonetheless leave the hapless victim hanging by a thread. Because, as fate had it, luck just wasn't on his side with this particular draw.

    As Hershall rightfully points out, this option gives bombers an advantage because they can absorb great amounts of damage. Furthermore I came to the conclusion that the amount of 10 damage points, as was suggested earlier by myself, does instantly destroy the Nieuport 11/16 and the Morane Saulnier N. (Who, in his right mind, would want to pilot those flying coffins anyway?) Thus negating the aim of preventing chance knock-outs early on in the game.
    All in all, there's room for improvement here. The most elegant solution I can come up with, is to set the amount of damage points of a machine-gun induced explosion-card at: 8 points, times the number of engines of the struck airplane. This would, for instance, deal the Caproni Ca.4 a blow of 8x3 = 24 damage points; and an early Nieuport would still have a chance with 8x1 = 8 damage points.

    This would give a bomber like the Handley Page with its mere two engines an advantage over a plane like the Zep. Staaken. But hey; if one flies a plane with lots of stuff to shoot at, one mustn't complain when stuff gets hit.
    In any case, this 8 times # engine option is unable to bring any excisting plane in the game down without any additional damage points, yet it will inflict serious damage to fighters and bombers alike.

    In all fairness, I haven't had much flying-hours with the giants yet. So this is more a haphazard fix to my house rule than anything else, but I think this might work.

  50. #100

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    I like your house rule, Sijbrand. I am in favour of avoiding the instant death as well. Getting blown up on a fluke chance on turn 2 of a massive dog-fight is more "not fun" than "dramatic tension" in my book. One of my cardinal rules for gaming in general is "Don't have players sit on the sidelines doing nothing." Inflicting massive damage for the X card still instills a mighty fear in players, though, and that is a good thing.

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