View Poll Results: Wich is your favourite WWI dogfight movie?

Voters
251. You may not vote on this poll
  • "Richthofen, der rote Ritter der Luft", 1927, Germany

    0 0%
  • "Wings", 1929, USA,

    4 1.59%
  • "Hell's Angels", 1930, USA

    7 2.79%
  • "The Dawn Patrol", 1930, USA

    3 1.20%
  • The Dawn Patrol" (Remake), 1938, USA

    13 5.18%
  • "Pour le Mérite", 1938, Germany

    1 0.40%
  • "Lafayette Escadrille", 1958, USA

    2 0.80%
  • "The Blue Max", 1966, USA

    109 43.43%
  • "Von Richthofen and Brown", 1971, USA

    5 1.99%
  • "The Great Waldo Pepper", 1975, USA

    4 1.59%
  • "Aces High", 1976, USA

    24 9.56%
  • "Flyboys", 2006, USA

    30 11.95%
  • "The Red Baron", 2008, Germany

    49 19.52%
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Thread: Which is the best WWI Air-War movie?

  1. #1

    Default Which is the best WWI Air-War movie?

    Wich is your favourite WWI Air-War movie?
    Last edited by Kaiser; 03-24-2011 at 18:51.

  2. #2

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    Wings . It has as far as I can remember has some WW1 combat footage in it. Blue Max, Red Baron, Flyboys , no. 2 & 3 & 4.

  3. #3

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    I voted for von Richthofen and Brown because I liked its elegiac message - the eclipse of an age of chivalry (represented by von Richthofen and Hawker) to one of total war (represented by Brown and Goering.) Sure - it mangles history something awful, but all of these films do that to some extent. But the flight scenes are well filmed, and I love the joy-ride in the Pfalz during opening credits.

    Of course, The Blue Max has Ursula Andress...

    I believe there is a great movie that could be made based on WWI air combat history, but no one has made it yet.

  4. #4

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    I hate to even admit that I have only seen about half of those... So I am going to hold off on my vote for a bit... Which of those was the Howard Hughes produced movie? And does anyone have a good source for some of the older films so I can get "caught up?"
    Ken Head - "The Cowman"
    “You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.” Robin Williams

  5. #5

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    Howard Hughes directed Wings, an excellent movie, which rates as one of my fave WW1 air movies
    Gallipoli is one of my fave WW1 movies, music by Jarre only makes it better
    oh! and Paschendale too

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuladin View Post
    Of course, The Blue Max has Ursula Andress...
    mmmmmmmm.... Ursula Andress.....

    Oh sorry lost my train of thought

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cowman View Post
    I hate to even admit that I have only seen about half of those... So I am going to hold off on my vote for a bit... Which of those was the Howard Hughes produced movie? And does anyone have a good source for some of the older films so I can get "caught up?"
    Howard Hughes directed Hell's Angels. (William A. Wellman directed Wings.)

    You can watch Wings (in 14 parts) on youtube starting here.

  8. #8

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    I voted for "Aces High" for its gritty realism. Also because it stars Malcolm McDowell (one of my favourite actors), Peter Firth (star of Spooks and the excellent movie "Lifeforce") and because I remember seeing some of the aerial scenes being filmed when I was young. (Its a British film, not US, although it was released in 1976).

  9. #9

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    I have enjoyed both The Blue Max and the 2008 The Red Baron. I enjoyed them for vastly different reasons. The Blue Max was certainly a better story about class struggle and acceptance. Kind of throwing an American theme over top of a movie presumably about German pilots in WW1. The Red Baron I liked because, as unrealistic as the air combat speeds were, there is something dynamic and exciting about those air combat scenes that others lack. I have Aces High on my list for this weekend since it's on Netflix streaming right now.

    Flyboys was one I was incredibly excited to go and see. I convinced my wife it'd be fun at the least. It was not enjoyable other than seeing a WWI aviation movie on the big screen. Once that novelty wore off...it was pretty much what everyone else thought about it.

    I still think there's a LOT of room out there for someone to make the ultimate WW1 aviation movie that has some attention to historical details in the air combat as well as a worthwhile story to go with it. I'd like to see something about the campaign over the Arras sector. I know GMT Games has a board game coming out about that topic, but it's a nice short period and it could feature many famous pilots and dogfights.

  10. #10

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    I am going with Aces High, because it reminded me of so many of the accounts of combat that you read about in books written by the leading Aces. As David so succinctly puts it "Its gritty realism".
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  11. #11

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    Default

    Blue Max for me, but Aces High runs a close second, dare I say ursula Andress piped it for me

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuladin View Post
    Howard Hughes directed Hell's Angels. (William A. Wellman directed Wings.)

    You can watch Wings (in 14 parts) on youtube starting here.
    Thanks Larry.

  13. #13

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    The 1938 remake of 'The Dawn Patrol' is the first movie I can remember seeing about WW1 (and no Kyte, it wasn't on initial release!). I thought the recent release of 'The Red Baron' was the greatest piece of fiction since 'Braveheart', but 'Flyboys' was a bit of fun. The 'real thing' beats CGI hands down any day; I just hope Peter Jackson will look at doing something with his burgeoning collection of WW1 aircraft once he (finally) makes 'The Hobbit'.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparty View Post
    I'd like to see something about the campaign over the Arras sector. I know GMT Games has a board game coming out about that topic, but it's a nice short period and it could feature many famous pilots and dogfights.
    Keith,
    It may already be out there! When I was at Essen in 2009 I picked up 'Wings over Arras - Operational Air Combat in 1917' designed by Steve Wamboldt and published in Command & Strategy magazine (Issue ~5 - 04/2005). It's a card game, plus D6 and counters.

  15. #15

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    Just to round things out for aspiring film buffs (courtesy of Wikipedia):

    Biggles: Adventures in Time is a 1986 adventure film based on the character of Biggles from the series of novels written by Captain W.E. Johns. The film stars Neil ****son as Biggles, Alex Hyde-White as Jim Ferguson and Peter Cushing as William Raymond in his final feature film role. Several aircraft were used in the film. These included a Stampe SV.4, which is flown by Biggles, and a Boeing Stearman, which is flown by his archrival, Von Stalhein. Both these aircraft are of 1930s vintage. Also used in ground scenes are several genuine World War I aircraft from The Shuttleworth Collection, including the Avro 504 and LVG C.VI.

    Darling Lili is a 1970 American musical film. The screenplay was written by William Peter Blatty and Blake Edwards, who also directed. The cast included Julie Andrews, Rock Hudson, and Jeremy Kemp. Darling Lili made use of Lynn Garrison’s aviation facility at Weston Aerodrome, Leixlip, Ireland. This collection of World War I replica fighter aircraft, facilities and support equipment was originally put together in support of 20th Century Fox’s 1966 film The Blue Max. The aerial fleet included a sole Caudron 277, two Fokker DR 1s, three Fokker D VIIs, two Se 5as and two Pfalz D IIIs (all full-scale replicas). In addition, the studio contracted with Slingsby Aircraft Ltd to build six 7/8th scale SE 5s (the "Mini SE 5").[1] The Paramount production utilized the assembled aircraft for thousands of flying hours and accumulated hundreds of hours of aerial footage.

    The Flying Ace (1926) was an action genre silent film, with an all-African American cast, about a flying ace during World War I. This six-reel film, made in Jacksonville, Florida, features Laurence Criner, who played the role of pilot William Stokes, and Kathryn Boyd, who played Ruth Sawtelle. The film was released only a year before Wings (1927), the first film to win an Academy Award. In July 2010, the San Francisco Silent Film Festival will show a restored print of The Flying Ace at the Castro Theatre.

    Grand Illusion (French: La grande illusion) is a 1937 French war film directed by Jean Renoir, who co-wrote the screenplay with Charles Spaak. The story concerns class relationships among a small group of French officers who are prisoners of war during World War I and are plotting an escape. During the First World War, two French aviators — aristocratic Captain de Boeldieu (played by Pierre Fresnay) and working-class Lieutenant Maréchal (Jean Gabin) — embark on a flight to examine the site of a blurred spot on photos from an earlier air reconnaissance mission. They are shot down by a German aviator and aristocrat, Captain von Rauffenstein (Erich von Stroheim). Von Rauffenstein, upon returning to base, sends a subordinate to find out if the aviators are officers and, if so, to invite them to lunch. During the meal, von Rauffenstein and de Boeldieu discover they have mutual acquaintances—a depiction of the familiarity, if not solidarity, within the upper classes that crosses national boundaries.

    The Kid Who Couldn't Miss is a 1982 docudrama directed by Paul Cowan. Produced by the National Film Board of Canada, it combines fact and fiction to question fighter pilot Billy Bishop's accomplishments during World War I, featuring excerpts from John MacLachlan Gray's play Billy Bishop Goes to War. H. Clifford Chadderton, Chief Executive Officer of The War Amps, created the film The Billy Bishop Controversy to counter the bias he and other veterans perceived in the NFB film. Released in 1986, it attempts to demonstrate that Cowan and the NFB did not properly research the historical records, and reached faulty conclusions about Bishop.

    The Legion of the Condemned (1928) was a silent film directed by William A. Wellman, produced by Jesse Lasky and Adolph Zukor with E. Lloyd Sheldon as associate producer. The film was distributed by Paramount Pictures. The movie follows the exploits of four men who join the Lafayette Escadrille. No copies of this film are known to survive, and is now considered a lost film.[1] The film used some aerial footage from the Paramount film Wings (1927).

    Zeppelin is a 1971 British World War I action/drama film of a fictitious German attempt to raid Great Britain in a giant Zeppelin and steal the Magna Carta from its hiding place in one of Scotland's castles. The film stars Michael York, Elke Sommer, and Anton Diffring, and was directed by Etienne Perrier. It was one of the last of the World War I movies made. The Zeppelin was actually a 40 foot model filmed over a large water tank in Malta. Air combat scenes were filmed in Ireland using Lynn Garrison's collection of World War I replica aircraft, originally assembled for 20th Century Fox's The Blue Max. During the aerial sequences one of the SE5a replicas, flown by Irish Air Corps pilot Jim Liddy, collided with the Alouette helicopter. Five people were killed, including Burch Williams, brother of Elmo Williams (a major Hollywood producer/director). The scenes showing the sheds in which the Zeppelin was housed were filmed at Cardington, Bedfordshire in England.

  16. #16

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    Had to go with the Blue Ursula...I mean Max!!!!

    Baldrick...thanks for adding the WIKI list...wouldn't mind seeing some of these...
    Last edited by 7eat51; 08-09-2013 at 09:07.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MayorJim View Post
    Had to go with the Blue Ursula...I mean Max!!!!

    Baldrick...thanks for adding the WIKI list...wouldn't mind seeing some of these...
    I bought the Blue Ursula, I mean Ursula, a couple of weeks ago to see if it/ she was as good as I remembered from the 60's. Let me just say Jim, that you certainly wouldn't mind seeing some of these.
    Rob.
    Last edited by 7eat51; 08-09-2013 at 09:07.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #18

  19. #19

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    Well I have to say the remake of Dawn Patrol. Which is the oldest one I've seen to present day. So I can't say on the older ones. Of which they could be as good or better.

    Tom

  20. #20

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    I found that Flyboys was better on the small screen than the large. I had been looking forward to a really good movie until I read an interview with the director in which he stated "CGI allows us to make these airplanes do things that they couldn't do for real". So I didn't expect much from it. But I still like it on DVD.

  21. #21

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    I voted for the 1938 version of Dawn Patrol with Errol Flynn & David Niven.
    That was the movie that really got me "hooked" on WW1 Aviation. A damn good effort with real planes, no CGI etc but managed to get the real feeling across.
    Honerable mention to "Blue Max". "Aces High" & "the Red Baron" (despite its absolute lack of Historical accuracy!)

    Another one worth looking at is the BBC series "Wings" which covers the very early War years. BE2s, Eindekkers, Flight Traing & lack of it.

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  22. #22

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    The Blue Max is what started it all for me.

  23. #23

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    I have not seen "Richthofen, der rote Ritter der Luft". But i have seen all the rest. I rate them top to bottom Blue Max, Von Richthofen and Brown, Wlado Pepper, Lafayette Escadrille and down!

    Rich

  24. #24

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    No wonder as this move is lost. Only the Univerity of Texas in Dallas owns some fragments in their library.

    Another movie i missed to mention:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell%27s_Angels_%28film%29
    Last edited by Kaiser; 03-27-2011 at 05:32.

  25. #25

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    I still like the Blue Max. With Von Richthofen and Brown a close second. I might have liked Flyboys better if it were done with real aircraft, but it shows just how far technology has come with computers.

  26. #26

    Default

    Actually Flyboys was done with "real" aircraft. Can't recall which ones were full size but some of the Lafayette Nieuports were ultra-lights, particularly the ones in the mass takeoffs. Unfortunately the wind started playing hob with them and after to many near-misses they grounded the ultralights. It would be neat to own one of those as you don't need to be licensed to fly it.

  27. #27

    Default Wich is the best WWI Air-War movie?

    Phlil!

    If you ever get down this way there is on of the planes made for Fly Boys.

    Rich
    Attached Images

  28. #28

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    I watched Aces High...

    All that happens in 6 days? I felt like the movie had too many broken pieces. The GC scenes were appropriately "They're stupid and don't listen to us and that's why we lose men." It honestly came off as almost melodramatic rather than merely dramatic. Any time someone gives the "thumbs up" to the kid...look out! It should be a drinking game to finish your beer every time someone gives the kid a thumbs us or some other overly supportive hand gesture. You could have a drink for every song...the movie is nearly a musical...

    The flying scenes were superb and I genuinely enjoyed the recon mission. It just felt so uneven, like it was all stolen from a longer movie that filled in the appropriate gaps so everything made clear sense.

    Give me Blue Max any day over this one sadly.

  29. #29

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    My vote went to the Blue Max.
    But I've never seen "Richthofen, der rote Ritter der Luft", 1927, Germany or "Pour le Mérite", 1938, Germany.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuladin View Post
    I voted for von Richthofen and Brown because I liked its elegiac message - the eclipse of an age of chivalry (represented by von Richthofen and Hawker) to one of total war (represented by Brown and Goering.) Sure - it mangles history something awful, but all of these films do that to some extent. But the flight scenes are well filmed, and I love the joy-ride in the Pfalz during opening credits.

    Of course, The Blue Max has Ursula Andress...

    I believe there is a great movie that could be made based on WWI air combat history, but no one has made it yet.
    I voted for The Blue Max but I was torn between it and Von Richthofen and Brown for the reasons you stated. The Blue Max won out because of the fact that it showed that new/less experienced pilots started out in the older a/c types and had to earn their experience in order to fly a DrI or DVII. I thought that Flyboys was okay but, for me, it depended too much on CGI and less on realism.

    Another movie not listed but is one of my favorite bi-plane, post WWI setting movie is Tom Selleck's High Road to China. The bombing and strafing of the Waziristan chieftan and tribe was priceless!

  31. #31

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    Blue Max for me as for me it is as still as good now as when it was first released.

  32. #32

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    That's the way I feel about Dawn Patrol the remake.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuladin View Post
    Howard Hughes directed Hell's Angels. (William A. Wellman directed Wings.)

    You can watch Wings (in 14 parts) on youtube starting here.
    I just got to watch Wings on youtube and I have to say it's number one. If it could be that good on youtube I would have loved to have seen it on the big screen. Thanks again Larry.

    Tom

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by CappyTom View Post
    I just got to watch Wings on youtube and I have to say it's number one. If it could be that good on youtube I would have loved to have seen it on the big screen. Thanks again Larry.

    Tom
    You can see why it won the very first Oscar for Best Picture. And Clara Bow was pretty hot, too.

  35. #35

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    I always found the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles episode called "Attack of the Hawkmen" to be good fun - clocks in at 96 minutes, guess you could call it a movie!? Great supplement material too about Von Richthofen, Anthony Fokker, and the Lafayette Escadrille. Blue Max gets my vote on this list.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Evans View Post
    I always found the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles episode called "Attack of the Hawkmen" to be good fun - clocks in at 96 minutes, guess you could call it a movie!? Great supplement material too about Von Richthofen, Anthony Fokker, and the Lafayette Escadrille.
    I also like it. A real fun movie that I watched three or four times over the years.

  37. #37

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    Does anyone know which aircrafts where used for "Wings"? Off course they are supposed to be SPADXIIIs and Fokker D.VIIs but they aren't the real aircrafts.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
    Does anyone know which aircrafts where used for "Wings"? Off course they are supposed to be SPADXIIIs and Fokker D.VIIs but they aren't the real aircrafts.
    Wikipedia states "Primary scout aircraft flown in the film were Thomas-Morse MB3s and Curtis PW-8s."

  39. #39

  40. #40

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    Watched the Youtube posted version of "Wings" this week and have to say...Wow! I was amazed that a silent movie was so engrossing. Excellent movie with great aerial combat scenes and a great storyline to boot.

  41. #41

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    I actually have purchased "Wings" on DVD
    Also "Hells' Angels" and "Aces High" which i have yet to see.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
    I actually have purchased "Wings" on DVD
    Also "Hells' Angels" and "Aces High" which i have yet to see.
    I got Aces High for my birthday, and love it. The action is so reminiscent of many of the books by pilots of the period that I have read.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  43. #43

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    I went for Aces High.
    I liked Blue Max, but having already read the book I was disappointed that the plot of the movie is so very, very wrong.
    However, as already pointed out by several of you, it does have the redeeming features of Ursula Undress.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    ...
    Another one worth looking at is the BBC series "Wings" which covers the very early War years. BE2s, Eindekkers, Flight Traing & lack of it.
    I've just seen this on Amazon. Both series for £16 seems pretty good.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by phililphall View Post
    I found that Flyboys was better on the small screen than the large. I had been looking forward to a really good movie until I read an interview with the director in which he stated "CGI allows us to make these airplanes do things that they couldn't do for real". So I didn't expect much from it. But I still like it on DVD.
    I have this DVD and re-watched it and the bonus material a few weeks ago. There was a quote by the director (or producer, don't remember which) where he said something very similar to the above but it was more like "CGI allows us to make these airplanes do things that we couldn't do for real" - meaning in the context of shooting combat flight scenes in the film. So I wonder if what you read in the interview is a misquote.

    In fact, they wanted to be very true to how the planes actually flew and they developed a new techique based on motion capture to model how the planes fly. So a lot of the CGI is really motion capture of actual planes flying. In the DVD bonus material there is a shot where they demonstrate this by superimposing the motion capture CGI plane on top of the footage of the actual plane that was used for the motion capture and they are almost perfectly in sync.

    As for the overall quality of the movie - while it's no Oscar winner, it's a nice fun action movie with a cheesy love story on the side and I like the fact that there is very little objectionable material (swearing, etc) so you can let your kids see it. In other words - it's great!

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezza View Post
    I've just seen this on Amazon. Both series for £16 seems pretty good.
    I envy you british people that your country produces such a pletora (and good) series and documentaries of military matter.
    Here in Germany such things are almost unheard of. "The Red Baron" (the only other movies which come to mind are "Stalingrad" and "Die Brücke") is a huge exception.

  47. #47

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    As I have only heard of some of the films mentioned and seen even less I have to go with the Blue Max for real flight scenes rather than CGI. Ursula Andress has nothing to do with it - honest

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezza View Post
    I've just seen this on Amazon. Both series for £16 seems pretty good.
    That is where I got mine. It is well worth it, and they do seem to deliver on this unlike the planes.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  49. #49

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    Indeed pretty good. Only theen three episodes so far. The only complaint i have is that the germans wear Stahlhelme in 1915. One year to early

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiraz68 View Post
    As I have only heard of some of the films mentioned and seen even less I have to go with the Blue Max for real flight scenes rather than CGI. Ursula Andress has nothing to do with it - honest

    Ursula Undress has everthing to do with it !!!!




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