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Thread: Wings of Savage Mill (Maryland)

  1. #201

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    If I make it, I'll bring the Richthofen D.III, but I don't have the right movement deck for it. I have the 2 Spad VIIs from F-toys as well, but I haven't put the very fiddly tail assemblies together. I got too distracted constructing bombed out buildings. That makes sense, doesn't it?

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    Looking forward to tomorrow!

    I've packed up all of my squadrons, though I can't think of two of them that fit well against each other.
    I'd like to use the W.29 in one of the scenarios. Other than that, I'm willing to play whatever.

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRS View Post
    If I make it, I'll bring the Richthofen D.III, but I don't have the right movement deck for it. I have the 2 Spad VIIs from F-toys as well, but I haven't put the very fiddly tail assemblies together. I got too distracted constructing bombed out buildings. That makes sense, doesn't it?
    Makes sense to me. Oh, and I finally found my GURPS GM's screen.

  4. #204

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    I brought all my planes so maybe we can work something out with opposing squadrons. I also have my balloon if we want to go that route. I ordered some DH.2's - hopefully the won't be to much of a challange to build

  5. #205

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    Drat. Unforeseen delays have grounded Richthofen for the evening, seeing as how it is an hour past flight time and I haven't left for the Family Game Store or eaten dinner.

  6. #206

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    You missed a pretty good one. I think it was the best we've had in awhile, and that's from the guy who got shot down twice.

    Since I had so much fun this time around, I suppose I can make one more before I take a break. Sign me up for Bloody April. Thinking about my collection, I have the following Entente "oddballs" that might be of use: Dh.2, F.E.2b, F.40, and G.4. The F.40 and the G.4 are both sporting French bomber squadron 108 markings. The other two are British generic PC10s.

    For Bloody April Sortie 2 I think it might be fun to do an "obsolete" light bomber mission, maybe with the two French bombers accompanied by the F.E.2b and some R.E.8s, against a swarm of D.IIIs. The expectation would be that the bombers will suffer heavy casualties, so anything else could be considered a victory by the Entente.

    Of course, Sortie 1 could be the standard dogfight, maybe with '17 April scouts if we can muster enough.
    Last edited by jbmacek; 03-13-2012 at 10:27.

  7. #207

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    So I've figured out that until I get, or if I can't find the proper movement decks, I can use the K deck for the D. III's J deck and somehow indicate that one of the straights is an Immelmann. I'll be missing a third side slip for each side, but how often would I use three slips to the same side in a row. For the Spad VII, I can use the M deck and pull out the super slips and the 90 degree turns. John, your idea of using the blue-tac to stick the F-toys base to the WOW base plate seems to work just fine. We'll need to battle test it to be sure.

  8. #208

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    Another great evening last night; 10 attendees makes for a decently sized dust-up. Hopefully we'll keep it up next month:

    Monday, April 09 @ 6:00

    Bloody April scenarios!

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    For Bloody April Sortie 2 I think it might be fun to do an "obsolete" light bomber mission, maybe with the two French bombers accompanied by the F.E.2b and some R.E.8s, against a swarm of D.IIIs. The expectation would be that the bombers will suffer heavy casualties, so anything else could be considered a victory by the Entente.

    Of course, Sortie 1 could be the standard dogfight, maybe with '17 April scouts if we can muster enough.
    For the dogfight, I figure so long as the Entente are stuck with B-firing planes we should probably shoot for about a 2:3 ratio to keep things reasonable. At that ratio, I've got Albatri to support a 10 player game; 12-13 if Paul brings Richthofen. If Mike manages to put together a DH-2, I'll have a pair of those, my 2 Cigogne Nieuports, a Sopwith Triplane and an Italian SPAD VII. That gets us to 10 for the dogfight, and I believe John has another plane or two he could throw in (Sopwith Pup?) if we need one or two more. Of course the more DH-2s the better; I do have 2 G & 2 P decks (depending on which we want to use) if anyone has a mini but no deck.

    For the bombing mission I assume we can change out some of the better Entente planes for RE-8s or your bombers, and ,if we have one available, add another Albatros to the German side.

    Quote Originally Posted by PRS View Post
    Drat. Unforeseen delays have grounded Richthofen for the evening, seeing as how it is an hour past flight time and I haven't left for the Family Game Store or eaten dinner.
    Sorry you missed it, but if Manfred's D.III only makes it to one event, next month is the event you want him to show up for. Don't worry about the J deck for game night; I have extras; I'll just have to remember to pack on for the evening.

  10. #210

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    My DH-2s arrived - the are a bit fiddly & I need to make a run to the hobby store for brass wire. With a deadline looming I should be motivated to get at least one together for bloody April!

  11. #211

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    Oh, and I should probably mention for anyone who was planning to pick up the bombers at the store: Steve (store owner) said that due to the price point they're only looking at ordering their pre-orders plus one set. So if you want them you should let the store know what you intend to buy.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptWillard View Post
    My DH-2s arrived - the are a bit fiddly & I need to make a run to the hobby store for brass wire. With a deadline looming I should be motivated to get at least one together for bloody April!
    Maybe I'll order another one and see if I can get it done by the 9th. It would be fun to field a group of DH.2s against D.IIIs.

    Todd, I do have a Pup.

  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    For the dogfight, I figure so long as the Entente are stuck with B-firing planes we should probably shoot for about a 2:3 ratio to keep things reasonable. At that ratio, I've got Albatri to support a 10 player game; 12-13 if Paul brings Richthofen. If Mike manages to put together a DH-2, I'll have a pair of those, my 2 Cigogne Nieuports, a Sopwith Triplane and an Italian SPAD VII. That gets us to 10 for the dogfight, and I believe John has another plane or two he could throw in (Sopwith Pup?) if we need one or two more. Of course the more DH-2s the better; I do have 2 G & 2 P decks (depending on which we want to use) if anyone has a mini but no deck.

    For the bombing mission I assume we can change out some of the better Entente planes for RE-8s or your bombers, and ,if we have one available, add another Albatros to the German side.


    Sorry you missed it, but if Manfred's D.III only makes it to one event, next month is the event you want him to show up for. Don't worry about the J deck for game night; I have extras; I'll just have to remember to pack on for the evening.
    Hi, I can contribute a Tripe...and possibly a D.III if things arrive on time

  14. #214

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    If we wanted to do a large Tripe fight someday, I have one complete and two in need of paint.

    For ease of reference, here's my collection, not including the W.29 or the soon-to-be-finished AGO C.I.




  15. #215

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    Do any of us have Frommherz's D.III by F-Toys? If not, maybe I'll take a spin over to the hobby shop during lunch to see if they have it.

  16. #216

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    Your local hobby shop has the F Toys WWI planes in stock? How much are they asking for them?

  17. #217

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    Yep, about a month or two ago they had a boatload of D.IIIs and SPADs. The price was the going rate, like $12 or $13 a pop.

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Yep, about a month or two ago they had a boatload of D.IIIs and SPADs. The price was the going rate, like $12 or $13 a pop.
    Which store is this? I had designs on doing a flight of SPADs off of Shapeways. Given production concerns maybe I should go with F-Toys, assuming they have a half-dozen Guynemers lying around.

    And no, I don't have any of the F-toys planes at the moment.

  19. #219

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    Hobby Works, the one in Rockville, not the one in Laurel... I'm going to take an early lunch and head over there now (that way I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find a parking place in my building when I return).

  20. #220

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    Ha! they have frakkin' Goering! I guess I'll buy that one. Let's see... Red baron 3, RAF SPAD 2, Guynemer 5, Frommherz 4.

  21. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Ha! they have frakkin' Goering! I guess I'll buy that one. Let's see... Red baron 3, RAF SPAD 2, Guynemer 5, Frommherz 4.
    So, if you were doing a SPAD VII repaint, would you go with the F-Toys, or Shapeways?

  22. #222

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    Given how my latest Shapeways planes have looked, I'd say F-Toys all the way. For $12 and change you get a pre-painted plane that looks pretty nice. They are a little more delicate, but they should hold up well enough. As an added bonus, they come with a stand that has a ball-joint. I'm tempted to go back over there tomorrow or on Saturday and pick up a Frommherz...

  23. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    I'm tempted to go back over there tomorrow or on Saturday and pick up a Frommherz...
    And I'm tempted to ask you to buy out the Guynemers for me. I just wish I'd had a chance to inspect the F-toys before, so I'd be a little more comfortable with the purchase.

  24. #224

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    A Goering? I never bothered looking through all the boxes once I had seen what I thought were all the variants. Research shows that they occasionally ship a special variant mixed in with the regular models including some third Spad VII. I saw your post about heading over there and figured I was overdue for a visit, but I must have just missed you. I didn't get any more planes, but I picked up the Osprey book Spad VII vs Albatros D III.

  25. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRS View Post
    A Goering? I never bothered looking through all the boxes once I had seen what I thought were all the variants. Research shows that they occasionally ship a special variant mixed in with the regular models including some third Spad VII. I saw your post about heading over there and figured I was overdue for a visit, but I must have just missed you. I didn't get any more planes, but I picked up the Osprey book Spad VII vs Albatros D III.
    Right, Goering (and Baracca) are the "secrets". I always thought that meant they really were secret, i.e., you bought one labeled one thing but the thing inside was the secret plane. That's not the case. This was clearly labeled Goering.

    Sorry I missed you, but I was in a hurry. I can just barely get there and get back during my lunch break.

  26. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Hobby Works, the one in Rockville, not the one in Laurel.
    I take it by this that you've checked out the one in Laurel? What about the one in Columbia? I assume they'd be in the modeling section?

    Quote Originally Posted by PRS View Post
    A Goering? I never bothered looking through all the boxes once I had seen what I thought were all the variants. Research shows that they occasionally ship a special variant mixed in with the regular models including some third Spad VII.
    That would be Baracca.

  27. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    And I'm tempted to ask you to buy out the Guynemers for me. I just wish I'd had a chance to inspect the F-toys before, so I'd be a little more comfortable with the purchase.
    I'd be happy to pick up the Guynemers for you if I hadn't just spent all of my fun money on a $90 book.

    If you'd like, I can take some close-ups of the one I have so you can see what you would be getting into. And I do owe you a plane, so if I go back do you want me to pick one up for you anyway?

  28. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    I take it by this that you've checked out the one in Laurel? What about the one in Columbia? I assume they'd be in the modeling section?
    Right, I go to the one in Laurel often (my barber is right next to it) and they've never had them. Columbia? I didn't even know there was one here in Columbia!

  29. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    I'd be happy to pick up the Guynemers for you if I hadn't just spent all of my fun money on a $90 book.
    I hope that's a good book...
    I'm afraid 1 F-Toys SPAD will just taunt me with it's differentness; the plan calls for at least 4, so it's really all or nothing. Maybe I'll have a chance to check out Columbia tonight.

    And is there no Great Clips in Columbia?

  30. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    I hope that's a good book...
    Yeah, me too.
    http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledg...e_locale=en_GB

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    I'm afraid 1 F-Toys SPAD will just taunt me with it's differentness; the plan calls for at least 4, so it's really all or nothing. Maybe I'll have a chance to check out Columbia tonight.
    Cool. Let me know what you find. And where the heck is it?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    And is there no Great Clips in Columbia?
    I've been going to this barber shop for nigh on two decades or more. It's still something of an old-fashioned barber shop, even though the guy who used to run it retired years ago. He was like some Old West shootist, with this huge handle-bar mustache, and he used to call me "hoss." Funny.

  31. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Cool. Let me know what you find. And where the heck is it?!?!
    Well, if there's any in Columbia, they're not where I'd expect them to be.
    You don't happen to take money on Paypal, do you?.

    The Hobby Lobby in Columbia is on Snowden River Parkway, just south of 175. It's the northernmost store in the big shopping center in front of the theatre.

  32. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Right, Goering (and Baracca) are the "secrets". I always thought that meant they really were secret, i.e., you bought one labeled one thing but the thing inside was the secret plane. That's not the case. This was clearly labeled Goering.
    This had to be done by the store. There is actually nothing on the packaging that gives away what is in side. You could be buying any of the three if the box has never been opened and checked.

  33. #233

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    You know, I didn't even notice but the bottom of the box has been cleverly sealed with tape. Very clever. And I'm not going to complain. I'd rather know what I'm getting.
    Last edited by jbmacek; 03-16-2012 at 05:27.

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    Well, if there's any in Columbia, they're not where I'd expect them to be.
    You don't happen to take money on Paypal, do you?.

    The Hobby Lobby in Columbia is on Snowden River Parkway, just south of 175. It's the northernmost store in the big shopping center in front of the theatre.
    Oh, I know where Hobby Lobby is. I was talking about Hobby Works, an altogether different place.

    Can I take Paypal? Yes, I can. But refresh my memory, do they take a cut of the money. It has been a while since the last time I received it.

  35. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Oh, I know where Hobby Lobby is. I was talking about Hobby Works, an altogether different place.
    I can't believe I misread that; Hobby Lobby seemed an odd place to find them...

  36. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Can I take Paypal? Yes, I can. But refresh my memory, do they take a cut of the money. It has been a while since the last time I received it.
    I've never used it to get money, so I don't know; I imagine they do.

    Actually, they claim it's free so long as I send from my bank account...

    But we should probably move the discussion of to PMs by now.
    Last edited by Pseudotheist; 03-15-2012 at 18:02.

  37. #237

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    Mission mostly accomplished. Check you PM.

    For those in the area, The Family Game Store is having a 30%-50% off sale this weekend. All their remaining Nexus WoW stuff is marked down 30%. I decided to take the WWII plunge and picked up an A6M. And since it was still sitting there, I picked up the new P-40 too.

  38. #238

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    What else did they have left? I wasn't planning to go there today, but that's tempting.

  39. #239

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    In WWI, I'm pretty sure all they have is the Jentsch Albatros, and maybe some booster cards. Don't know about WWII.

  40. #240

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    They had three or four Jentschs, one, maybe two Belgian RE.8s, and I think three, possibly four different booster packs. The ones I remember seeing were the SPAD VII, the Sopwith Tripe, and the Bristol. They may have had another too... is there one with the SE.5a?

    As far as WWII stuff that was on sale, they have at least two Stukas, maybe four Spitfires, about the same number of Wildcats, two 109s, two Vals, and maybe three or four Hurricanes.

  41. #241

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    Dogfight has the SE.5a and the Siemens-Schuckert D.III. Okay, I'm heading in.

  42. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRS View Post
    Dogfight has the SE.5a and the Siemens-Schuckert D.III. Okay, I'm heading in.
    Good luck!

  43. #243

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    I did get 2 F Toys in the Laurel Hobby Works but WWII P-40's. Don't get there as much as I should since it is close to me. Went to the Hobby Lobby off 198 and only found 1/72 models.

  44. #244

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    At some point I'm going to have to go to Hobby Lobby again to hunt down some of those 1:200 scale WWII planes.

    And...

    Next time we play, I'd like to suggest we use the actual Pilot/Observer Wounded "special damage" rules. We had some disagreement last time, but since we were more interested in playing than haggling over rules we didn't spend any time looking for the rule. It's in the miniatures rules set, and it read thus:

    Observer Wounded
    (Special Damages)
    If the optional “Special Damages” rules are in use, when the card is taken
    by a two-seater the symbol may affect either the pilot or the observer. If
    the card gives 3 points of damage, it affect the pilot: Apply the normal
    rules for a wounded pilot. If it does not have a “3,” it means that the
    observer of the two-seater plane is wounded. This special damage is kept
    secret. The plane can no longer fire the machine guns in the rear arc of fire.
    If a two-seater plane has a mission, when you plan the scenario you have to
    decide if it can be performed by a plane with an incapacitated observer or
    not (for example, some cameras could be used by the pilot).
    A second observer wounded damage on the same observer has no
    additional effect.

  45. #245

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    Pilot wounded uses the "normal" rules:

    The symbol means that the pilot is wounded. This special damage is
    kept secret. The plane can no longer fire the machine guns just after
    executing a steep maneuver, an Immelmann turn, a Split-S, or a climb
    (see Altitude rules, pages 11-12). Unjamming machine guns takes
    longer: If your guns become jammed, you may not fire after the next
    four maneuvers instead of the next three. Take three counters as always
    (so as not to reveal that your pilot is wounded), but do not fire after the
    maneuver executed just after discarding the last one. If an airplane takes
    a second pilot wounded damage, it is eliminated.

  46. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    Next time we play, I'd like to suggest we use the actual Pilot/Observer Wounded "special damage" rules. We had some disagreement last time, but since we were more interested in playing than haggling over rules we didn't spend any time looking for the rule.
    I want to start by saying that I hope for the Savage Mill events not to be my Wings of War events, but simply Wings of War events that all participants feel they can contribute as much as and in whatever ways they desire. With that in mind, I'm fine with using the "Pilot Wounded" rule if that's majority opinion, and what follows should only be considered as one person's take on the subject.

    Now, let me tell you why I hate the "Pilot Wounded" rule...

    First off, I don't believe it's the "normal" rule at all. In both the Famous Aces/Watch Your Back rulebook and the Burning Drachens rulebook, "Pilot Wounded" special damage is never mentioned; the associated symbol is strictly "Observer Incapacitated". Even in the Flight of the Giants optional rules for special damage preclude "Pilot Wounded" results:
    Unless the Expanded Crew Damage optional rules are used, crewmen who do not fire machine guns (i.e., crewmen that don’t correspond to a firing arc) cannot be wounded
    It's only possible in the advanced special rules (and pretty much meaningless, except for the Gotha & Friedrichshaffen). I believe the rule was added to the Miniature rules because someone got upset when they realized that the "Observer Incapacitated" symbols on the decks included had no purpose in the game with the included components. It's not the only example of additions to the miniature rules for the purpose of making use of game components rather than improving the quality of the game:
    Each plane starts the game at a certain altitude, agreed upon by all the players. It must be at least 1 and no higher than 3. Put as many stands between the plane base and the model as the agreed altitude for that plane, plus one (so an airplane at altitude 2 will have 3 stands inserted).

    No plane can go higher than altitude 3: At that height, a maneuver card that would bring the plane to 4 is considered an illegal maneuver.
    I would not mind variant rules if they were balanced;this one isn't. Firepower trumps maneuverability in this game, such that a two-seat aircraft has a distinct advantage over a scout, even if the scout has twin guns to the single-gun mounts of the 2 seaters. The "Observer Incapacitated" special damage is one factor that mitigates that advantage, until it's re-designed to be a single-seater penalty. It makes sense that a hit to the observer would have no effect on a scout plane, as there is no observer to hit, but does it make sense to anyone that the pilot of a scout is twice as easy to hit as a two-seater pilot? Has he suddenly become twice as big? It's interesting to note that a two-seater pilot can not be killed via "Pilot Wounded" special damage from a single damage deck; a single-seat pilot doesn't have similar protection.

    In addition to being an unbalanced kludge, the "Pilot Wounded" special damage is also the most complex special damage in the game. And it's not listed on my cheat-sheet.

    All that having been said, I think that a more fair version of the "Pilot Wounded" rule could be put into effect similar to the advanced rules in Flight of the Giants. With large crew planes once the "Observer Incapacitated" damage card is pulled, chits are drawn to determine how many and which crew are injured (a die could just as easily be used). Apply that to 1 and 2 crew planes, but give the single-seaters a 50% chance of a miss, and I think that would be reasonably fair. I have a slim hope that something similar might appear in the new rule set, so I was hoping to push back any introduction of the "Pilot Wounded" special damage until that release, rather than introducing it and having to change it 2 games later.
    Last edited by Pseudotheist; 03-21-2012 at 16:09.

  47. #247

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    Hi all,

    I have three D.IIIs to add to the list--two F-Toys (Richthoven and Frommherz) and one Shapeways that I am painting in semi-Jasta 18 markings. Look forward to seeing you guys on Monday!

  48. #248

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    Well, it certainly sounds like we'll have plenty of D.IIIs.
    How are we fixed for DH.2s at the moment? I have one.

  49. #249

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    One week reminder for next meeting!

    I have no DH.2s, but have a pair of P decks to use if anyone comes up with one but is short a deck (I assume we'll use the P deck, as Ares has apparently decided to release the minis with that deck). I believe CaptWillard was hoping to have one or two ready to go by next week. If not, we should be able to manage with Tripes, Pups, & SPADs, I would think.

    No discussion on the "Pilot Wounded" rule? I'm not a fan, but if people still want to try it, that's fine.

  50. #250

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    Actually, I think most of us are used to using it (though I guess "most" depends on who is there).

    To be more specific, the people I regularly game with, and who I first started playing WoW with (i.e., Mike, Jim, Paul, Zach, and CaptWillard) consider the aforementioned pilot injured rules to be "the rules." That's due to the fact that the only set of rules we've ever used were those from the WoW Deluxe boxed set, as opposed to the rules from earlier sets.

    The best course is probably just to see who is there, and put it to a vote.

    I'll send out an invite via Facebook to see if I can round up some fresh blood. It is Bloody April, after all.

    Looking forward to getting shot down in my DH.2!

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