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Thread: Idea for tailing rules for WW2

  1. #1

    Default Idea for tailing rules for WW2

    I ran a one-card plotting scenario at Daycon a couple of weeks ago, and among the rules I used was tailing. This worked very well, as tailing situations happened quite a few times, with the pursuer staying on the target aircraft, which of course did all it could to evade, and other players tried to jump on the tailing aircraft to break his tailing.

    This convinced me that tailing rules absolutely need to be used if we want to make games historical in nature (within the limits of the game system). At the same time, it seems to be universally agreed upon that the tailing rules as written in the rule book don’t really work.

    Taking a page from my one-card plotting experiment, here are my thoughts on making tailing rules work in the WW2 game.

    First, modify the existing rules to determine tailing as follows.

    Current rule states that in order for tailing to be possible, the three conditions below must be met:

    1) The ruler reaches both stands.
    2) The ruler passes through the front edge of the tailing airplane’s base and through the rear edge of the tailed airplane’s base.
    3) The ruler does not cross any other airplane base.

    The 2nd point of the current rule only states that “the ruler passes through the front edge of the tailing airplane’s base and through the rear edge of the tailed airplane’s base.” This means that in the photo below airplane #1 is technically tailing airplane #2 even though it is at nearly a right angle to plane #2:

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    My proposed change is to keep points 1 and 3 above as is, and change point as below so that the rule reads:

    1) The ruler reaches both stands.
    2) The ruler passes FROM THE POST through the front edge of the tailing airplane’s base and through the rear edge TO THE POST of the tailed airplane’s base.
    3) The ruler does not cross any other airplane base.

    This means that to be tailing an opponent the tailing airplane would have to be in a true-to-life taking position as below:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Second, modify card selection and play as follows:

    In the situation in the photo above, at the end of movement airplane #1 is in a tailing position with airplane #2. The sequence of play from here using the photo above as an example is as follows:

    1) Resolve fire normally.
    2) Before the play of the next card airplane #1 must declare whether he will tail airplane #2. This is important, as will be seen below.
    3) If airplane #1 choose to declare he is tailing, airplane #2 must show his next plotted card secretly to airplane #1 (but not the speed marker).
    4) Airplane #1 may then change his card plot. He chooses his next card, and also the card after that per normal rules so that he will have two cards plotted, and places a speed marker on each, again per the normal rules.
    5) Both airplanes execute their chosen cards.
    6) Resolve fire. If airplane #1 is still in tailing position of airplane #2, this process is repeated from step 1 above.
    7) If the tail is broken, airplane #1 is committed to the play of the next card and speed marker as chosen and selects his second pard per the normal rules.

    Additional rule: If a plane that has declared it is tailing another plane, the tailing plane may ONLY fire at the tailed airplane.

    My reasoning here is that in real life the pilot in plane #1 would be fixated on airplane #2 to the point that at the speeds represented he would not be able to react quickly enough to fire at a second target. In game terms I see it as a trade-off – being able to change movement to allow tailing at the cost of not being able to fire at any other target.

    EXAMPLE: in the photo below, after resolving fire airplane #1 is tailing airplane #2, with airplane #3 coming toward airplane #1 at about 1 o’clock. Airplane #1 can choose to declare he is tailing airplane #2, but if he does, he may not fire at airplane #3 on the next firing phase. If airplane #1 declares he is tailing airplane #2, he is not obligated to fire at airplane #2, but after movement he cannot fire at any other airplane:

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    Aircraft #1 declares he is tailing Airplane #2, but for movement he decides rather than continue to pursue he will break away in an attempt to evade aircraft #3. In doing so he ends up with a viable shot at airplane #4, but cannot fire in this phase because he had declared he was tailing airplane #2. The second card he plotted previously becomes his next card, and he now plots further moves normally:

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    Note also in this example that although airplane #3 now has a shot at airplane #1, he is not tailing because the ruler will not go from his peg through the front of his base and through the rear of the base to the post of airplane #1.

    If optional acceleration rules are used the tailing airplane must conform to those in his card selection. If altitude rules are used an airplane may tail an opponent if the tailing airplane is at the same level or up to one level (total 3 climb token difference) higher.

    I think in order to at least somewhat replicate historical air combat that tailing rules need to be used, and I think these rules would work, but I will defer to more experienced players on here who may see a flaw in what I’m proposing. I don’t think this would add more than a minimal amount of complexity or delays in game flow, as in the scenario I ran at DayCon we used more complex rules than this with no impact on game flow.

    Everyone’s comments, thoughts, ideas, threats, etc. are welcome.
    Last edited by Bobsalt; 04-27-2024 at 14:33. Reason: Changed “lower” to “higher” to match the altitude rules.

  2. #2

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    Isn't the first part of your proposed modification exactly what the official rules mean?
    I would disagree that in your first picture airplane 1 is technically tailing airplane 2.

    As I have never used tailing, I cannot really judge the second part. I like the optional rule that a tailing pilot may shoot only at the tailed airplane..

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokusai View Post
    Isn't the first part of your proposed modification exactly what the official rules mean?
    I would disagree that in your first picture airplane 1 is technically tailing airplane 2.

    As I have never used tailing, I cannot really judge the second part. I like the optional rule that a tailing pilot may shoot only at the tailed airplane..
    I also disagree that in the first photo airplane 1 could be considered to be tailing airplane 2 in real-life. However, I quoted the 3 conditions in the rule straight from the rule book right above the photo, and in the photo all 3 of those conditions are being met, so unless I’m missing something it seems clear to me that with a literal reading of the official rules airplane 1 is considered to be tailing airplane 2. This is why when I listed the 3 conditions again below the photo I modified condition 2 - to force a more realistic nose-to-tail positioning in order to be considered as tailing.

  4. #4

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    Where the rules say 'stands' they mean the pegs not the base, Bob, so your rephrasing is correct and is as the rules stated (if somewhat awkwardly).
    The BoB rules are the last iteration I'm aware of and used the words center to center to clarify the point (as does DoW). The images in all rules sets show the ruler from red dot to red dot too not just to the base. Happy tailing

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsalt View Post
    I quoted the 3 conditions in the rule straight from the rule book
    Ok, that's the misunderstanding. We are talking about different versions of the rule book.
    From BoB
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The images in all rules sets show the ruler from red dot to red dot too not just to the base. Happy tailing
    Not “all” rulebooks.

    I was using the 2009 Wings of War rule book, which is what I had handy. As you can see, the ruler does not go from red dot to red dot in the graphic, though I freely confess that it could if it were just moved a bit:

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    Since the text in my rule book didn’t specify, and the example didn’t show it had to be red dot or post to the other red dot or post, I ran with that. The example in the previous post is much more clear in its intent, so obviously I got this point wrong.

    Setting aside that relatively minor point, the question is still - is this idea a good one, or is there a flaw in my reasoning or rule loophole that would make this unworkable?

  7. #7

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    Correct me if I'm geting it wrong. The official procedure allows the tailing player to plan his card #2 based on the knowledge of the tailed player's card #1. His already planned card #1 (which will be played next) remains as is. You are proposing that he shall be allowed to replace card #1, as well.

    Seems reasonable to me (see potential complication below), but as with any rule, only playtesting will give an authoritative answer.
    Will tailing become too easy? Too difficult for the tailed one to break out, even with a more maneuvrable plane?
    I look forward to your test results.

    There is a situation to be aware of.
    Example: The tailer runs a deck that has one set of 90 degree turns.

    1) Planned cards:
    Card #1 90-deg-right
    Card #2 any

    2)
    Card #1 90-deg-right is played, tailing conditions met
    Card #2 any becomes card#1 any
    The tailer replaces card #1 any with 90-deg-right!!! This is an illegal move, as he plays the same card twice.

    The players must make sure that the card which initiates or continues the tailing procedure is not used again to replace card #1. This could be somewhat tricky to enforce.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokusai View Post
    Correct me if I'm geting it wrong. The official procedure allows the tailing player to plan his card #2 based on the knowledge of the tailed player's card #1. His already planned card #1 (which will be played next) remains as is. You are proposing that he shall be allowed to replace card #1, as well.

    Seems reasonable to me (see potential complication below), but as with any rule, only playtesting will give an authoritative answer.
    Will tailing become too easy? Too difficult for the tailed one to break out, even with a more maneuvrable plane?
    I look forward to your test results.

    There is a situation to be aware of.
    Example: The tailer runs a deck that has one set of 90 degree turns.

    1) Planned cards:
    Card #1 90-deg-right
    Card #2 any

    2)
    Card #1 90-deg-right is played, tailing conditions met
    Card #2 any becomes card#1 any
    The tailer replaces card #1 any with 90-deg-right!!! This is an illegal move, as he plays the same card twice.

    The players must make sure that the card which initiates or continues the tailing procedure is not used again to replace card #1. This could be somewhat tricky to enforce.
    I think this would be covered by the rule that prohibits playing consecutive diamond maneuvers, since I think all 90-degree turns in the WW2 game are diamond maneuvers, but you make a good point. Perhaps wording needs to added that a tailing player cannot play the same card twice in a row unless he has two of that card in his deck, and that rules for diamond maneuvers remain in effect?

    As to enforcing, I think this would have to be on the honor system, which is pretty much how all the games I’ve been in have gone.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsalt View Post
    Not “all” rulebooks.
    I was using the 2009 Wings of War rule book, which is what I had handy. As you can see, the ruler does not go from red dot to red dot in the graphic..
    You're not wrong, Bob, so, in every other rule book but that one from the WoW deluxe set (I believe) - poor editing there methinks !
    Point is it's from center to centre as you essentially went on to suggest and as it states in the rules of WoW Dawn of War, WoW Fire from the Skies and WoG BoB but not WoG WW2, which also says stand to stand.
    So that adjustment you made is good & clarifies the rules you're using.
    Last edited by flash; 04-28-2024 at 12:26.

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"



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