Fun question: how many Mitsubishi Zeros were shot down by Douglas SBDs?
I am assembling a few a/c for a planned WGS scenario set in the Pacific. One Douglas SBD will be included as a scout plane. While researching the background of the Dauntless, I was surprised to learn Dauntless crewmen were credited with shooting down a number of Mitsubishi Zeros.
So how many Zeros were shot down by the Douglas SBD Dauntless?
Less than ten?
More than twenty?
More than a hundred (oh, sure!)?
Look up Cook Cleland and Stanley Vejtasa - both either made Ace in SBD's or got most of the way there.
My SBD will represent that of Ensign John Leppla of Scouting Squadron 2 (USS Lexington CV-2), credited with five enemy a/c.
You may like this, Larry:
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/ar...sbd-dauntless/
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
What a great, informative article, Dave. Thanks for posting it.
You're welcome, Larry, in answer to your original question: SBD crews were officially credited with an astonishing 138 aerial victories, 106 of them Zero's, though there is a suggestion of overclaiming as there is with all such figures in every theatre. Not read it all myself yet, but this article may explain why that is:Originally Posted by Larry R.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/duri...ing-heres-why/
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
A nice article, Dave. One rebuttal for it: in Saburo Sakai's autobiography, he states that he was attacking TBF Avengers, which can really look like Wildcats from a distance. Possibly, the SBD's shot down a different Zero.
And yes, over claiming of kills was endemic to all nations. Post-war record searching proves it could be very inflated.
At least we know what we killed on our tables
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
That, or, Sakai misidentified the aircraft he attacked twice that day !
He does indeed claim that (as well as a brace of kills). However, according to US Navy records, only one formation of bombers reported fighting Zeros under these circumstances. This was a group of eight SBD Dauntlesses from Enterprise, led by Lieutenant Carl Horenberger of Bombing Squadron 6 (VB-6). The SBD crews reported being attacked by two Zeros, one of which came in from directly astern and flew into the concentrated fire from their rear-mounted twin 7.62 mm (0.3 in) .30 AN/M2 guns. The rear gunners claimed the Zero as a kill when it dove away in distress, in return for two planes damaged (one seriously).
So maybe the author, Martin K.A. Morgan, has it right after all ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabur%...opular_culture
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Thanks everyone for the great responses. Dauntless vs Zero could be quite an interesting game scenario if planned carefully. The Zero...fast, agile, good fire power, but unable to sustain heavy battle damage. The Dauntless...slower, less manueverable, with a rear facing gun (some with twin rear facing guns), but capable of absorbing more battle damage. Perhaps there is a past AAR that includes an SBD/A6M battle....I'll have to look for it.
There was some action here:-
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ntoyment-Poole
I've got loads more pictures, but I've been too busy to put together a proper AAR yet ... but I intend to at some point.
Last edited by Flying Helmut; 03-14-2024 at 07:54.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Frankly, I think the Dauntless (and more so the Val) are not given a good enough maneuver deck. Something on my to-do list, I'm afraid.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Not being there (That, or, Sakai misidentified the aircraft he attacked twice that day !
He does indeed claim that (as well as a brace of kills). However, according to US Navy records, only one formation of bombers reported fighting Zeros under these circumstances. This was a group of eight SBD Dauntlesses from Enterprise, led by Lieutenant Carl Horenberger of Bombing Squadron 6 (VB-6). The SBD crews reported being attacked by two Zeros, one of which came in from directly astern and flew into the concentrated fire from their rear-mounted twin 7.62 mm (0.3 in) .30 AN/M2 guns. The rear gunners claimed the Zero as a kill when it dove away in distress, in return for two planes damaged (one seriously).
So maybe the author, Martin K.A. Morgan, has it right after all ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabur%...opular_culture), I won't say who is right.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
I wouldn't put my money on the bloke who misidentified the target and got himself shot up !
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Well, it's hard to argue that pointI wouldn't put my money on the bloke who misidentified the target and got himself shot up !
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Just remember that virtually all Hayabusa's were misidentified as A6Ms in the New Guinea area. Ki61s were misidentified as 109s
Good point, Zoe. It may be better to ask "how many Japanese fighter a/c were shot down by the SBD?" From my reading, the Ki-43 was very similar in appearance to the A6M, and perhaps as good.
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