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Thread: OTT-EYM - Mission 7 - At Length Did Cross an Albatros..- 19th Feb 1917 by Stumptonian

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    Default OTT-EYM - Mission 7 - At Length Did Cross an Albatros..- 19th Feb 1917 by Stumptonian

    On 27 January, 1917, the Kommandierender General der Luftstreitkräfte had issued an order grounding all Albatros D.IIIs pending resolution of the wing failure problem.

    On 19 February, after Albatros introduced a reinforced lower wing, the Kogenluft rescinded the grounding order.

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    Happy to have the Albatros D.III back at their disposal, the pilots of Jasta 24 head off over the trenches on a routine patrol.
    (Entente players will follow the same pattern - this was just written from the Adler point of view)

    The Germans will have three aircraft.
    Roll 1D3: this will be the number of Albatros D.III
    The remainder will be Albatros D.II, Halberstadt D.III or other aircraft of your choosing.
    *If the Germans have 3 Albatros (of either type) the Entente will have 4 aircraft to offset the dual machine guns.

    Use two Ares mats – I suggest Countryside (for Friendly Territory) and No Man’s Land.
    If you do not use Ares mats use an area approximately the same size.
    Start your aircraft one half ruler in from the long edge of friendly territory heading toward No Man’s Land.

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    Place your formation fairly close together. Plot for the middle aircraft and have the others follow the same set of cards.
    Until the enemy has been spotted you will follow the arrows as shown in the photo:
    Move toward and into No Man’s Land and then turn to follow the enemy trench line and then back along the friendly trench line.

    Each turn, after plotting, roll 2D6 to see if enemy are spotted.
    As your aircraft progress across the mat the chances of enemy aircraft arriving will increase.
    If the dice roll is equal to or greater than the number shown on the arrow in the photo enemy aircraft will arrive.

    In areas with a green arrow, place an enemy plane two rulers away from your aircraft in its forward firing arc, heading toward your aircraft.
    Match up one of your planes with each enemy.
    Plot the AI’s turn.

    In areas with a red arrow, place the enemy one ruler behind your aircraft.
    In this instance the enemy will receive a +1 advantage on their first shot.
    The placement will be considered the AI after Phase One - plot just two phases for them this turn.

    If enemy are not spotted, plot your next turn, following the arrows in the photo.
    Continue to follow the arrow pattern over No Man’s Land until the enemies are placed on the table at which point there will be a dogfight until one side is either all FRTB or shot down.
    Once the dogfight starts plot all AI as usual.

    If, in any instance, placing the enemy aircraft has them off the mat, place them with the rear of their base on the mat, facing your aircraft.


    Victory Points:
    Aircraft shot down: 3 points
    Aircraft FRTB: 1 point

    Good luck and Happy Hunting
    Last edited by Stumptonian; 06-01-2023 at 09:23. Reason: Title tickle

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    Thamks, Pete. The Albatrii D.III are back, time for more beatings, Tommy !

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

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    Will be giving it a try today. A few bits of clarification:

    1) The pattern with arrows is for the friendly planes regardless if the player is an Adler or a Bulldog.

    2) The roll for enemy arrival is after plotting. So the friendly planes cannot react until the next turn's plotting phase (i.e., 3 movement phases). How are the enemy planes movement plotted for these 3 phases in Case A when they are opposite the friendlies and closing and in Case B when they are tailing the friendlies? I'm getting the suspicion that in the red arrow zones the enemy will tail the friendlies for 3 phases blazing away at +1 for 3 phases. That seems a wee bit excessive compared to green arrow arrival zones.
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 06-01-2023 at 08:09.

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    Cheers, Pete. Looks straightforward enough What could possibly go wrong! I'm assuming, from the title, that the arrows are for the Central Powers aircraft and so I shall play the enemy. Why not, I just love being shot down I like a straight forward dogfight to the death. Better get some replacement pilot names ready

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Cheers, Pete. Looks straightforward enough What could possibly go wrong! I'm assuming, from the title, that the arrows are for the Central Powers aircraft and so I shall play the enemy. Why not, I just love being shot down I like a straight forward dogfight to the death. Better get some replacement pilot names ready
    I think you're right, Mike. The arrows describe - "the pilots of Jasta 24 head off over the trenches on a routine patrol". So, it's the CP that follow the arrows and the Entente that are "the enemy". I had taken it to mean that "your planes" = the player's home squadron/jasta and "the enemy planes" to be their opposites. I guess Pete's been an Adler far too long.

    Good thing I saw your post as I had just set up the Seadogs to run the patrol, but I hadn't done any movement. Maybe I'll just continue with the set up I've done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Will be giving it a try today. A few bits of clarification:

    1) The pattern with arrows is for the friendly planes regardless if the player is an Adler or a Bulldog.
    Correct. You Entente players set out on their patrol using the same setup and will be attacked by Adler.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post

    2) The roll for enemy arrival is after plotting. So the friendly planes cannot react until the next turn's plotting phase (i.e. 3 movement phases).
    How are the enemy planes movement plotted for these 3 phases in Case A when they are opposite the friendlies and closing
    They will be two rulers apart and can plot accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    and in Case B when they are tailing the friendlies?
    I'm getting the suspicion that in the red arrow zones the enemy will tail the friendlies for 3 phases blazing away at +1 for 3 phases.
    That seems a wee bit excessive compared to green arrow arrival zones.
    Sorry - I think I cut a piece out when modifying the scenario. I used to have it that the Dice Roll was after your Phase One movement and then I changed it to be after your plotting.
    In the case with the red arrows the enemy is considered to have moved their Phase One when placed.
    My intent is that you place the enemy with a ruler between your aircraft and theirs (not overlapping), so they will not get to fire in Phase 1.

    Plot two phases for the AI in this turn only.
    The +1 is for their first shot, which will likely be in Phase 2.

    Note: I put some clarifications into my original post to reflect the above.
    Last edited by Stumptonian; 06-01-2023 at 09:25.

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    Thanks, Pete. Then I'm ready to go.

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    Here is my 22 cents worth of questions/comments.

    We are trying to set up an enemy shot possibly on their 1st move.

    Why plot and move for how many turns it takes until the enemy to show up? Could be a lot of m oving for nothing. Can we just make the rolls, see when the enemy arrive and place our planes at the locations shown, Maybe a preplotted straight-stall-straight or straight-straight-stall plot for our planes. When the enemy appear, place our planes at the correct location and roll for the enemy AI plot. When plotting for the AI, are we taking the 2nd and 3rd movements from their charts?

    Not many planes have a 90* left so that turn from #9 to #8 won't be happening, so placing planes at the locations would allow us to acheive your locations.

    The stall on the 2nd plot will mostly assure a shot by the enemy on your tail, mostly. If you don't have a stall the enemy on your tail might not close the distance and get a shot. Would the enemy that starts on your tail still get a +1 on the 1st time it shoots no matter when? You could be just out of range and Immelmann on the next turn...do they still get the +1? AI planes can stall so they may not get to shoot on their first turn.

    Sorry to have so many questions!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    We are trying to set up an enemy shot possibly on their 1st move.
    That is not the case. Only in the red arrow areas will the AI have an advantage, and, as clarified, that would be on Phase 2 at the earliest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Why plot and move for how many turns it takes until the enemy to show up? Could be a lot of moving for nothing. Can we just make the rolls, see when the enemy arrive and place our planes at the locations shown
    You can certainly do that if you want. I didn't feel that moving three planes for a few turns would be that different from scenarios that start at the edge of the table and head toward the enemy, and would not take that long.
    The varying dice rolls for AI appearance were to put a certain amount of variety into everyone's version.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Maybe a preplotted straight-stall-straight or straight-straight-stall plot for our planes.
    When the enemy appear, place our planes at the correct location and roll for the enemy AI plot
    Not sure how this is any different than plotting your own moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    When plotting for the AI, are we taking the 2nd and 3rd movements from their charts?
    Not many planes have a 90* left so that turn from #9 to #8 won't be happening, so placing planes at the locations would allow us to acheive your locations.
    The arrows are just approximations - the regular turn on for a D.III is not 90 degree but still allows the aircraft to be moved across the board using sideslips etc.
    Different aircraft will end up in different spots, depending on the deck used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    The stall on the 2nd plot will mostly assure a shot by the enemy on your tail, mostly. If you don't have a stall the enemy on your tail might not close the distance and get a shot. Would the enemy that starts on your tail still get a +1 on the 1st time it shoots no matter when? You could be just out of range and Immelmann on the next turn...do they still get the +1? AI planes can stall so they may not get to shoot on their first turn.
    OK now I am confused - I never said anything about stalls.
    I thought I clarified that the placement in the Red Arrow areas would not allow a shot on the first phase, but the AI would get +1 on the first shot, likely in Phase 2.

    I guess in future I will send the draft to Dave before posting ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Thanks, Pete. Then I'm ready to go.
    Done!

    At Length Did Cross an Albatros...no more!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    That is not the case. Only in the red arrow areas will the AI have an advantage, and, as clarified, that would be on Phase 2 at the earliest.



    You can certainly do that if you want. I didn't feel that moving three planes for a few turns would be that different from scenarios that start at the edge of the table and head toward the enemy, and would not take that long.
    The varying dice rolls for AI appearance were to put a certain amount of variety into everyone's version.



    Not sure how this is any different than plotting your own moves.



    The arrows are just approximations - the regular turn on for a D.III is not 90 degree but still allows the aircraft to be moved across the board using sideslips etc.
    Different aircraft will end up in different spots, depending on the deck used.



    OK now I am confused - I never said anything about stalls.
    I thought I clarified that the placement in the Red Arrow areas would not allow a shot on the first phase, but the AI would get +1 on the first shot, likely in Phase 2.

    I guess in future I will send the draft to Dave before posting ....
    I'll do my best to try to play as written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    ..I guess in future I will send the draft to Dave before posting ....
    I was tucked up with gaming yesterday, Pete and just had a chance to go through this in detail - We probably would have had the same conversation, and been just as confused !
    I think Peter is introducing the stall so that the enemy has a chance of actually catching their target if in the red zone, most of the planes are the same speed so wouldn't catch up to get a shot without that, or, until the target chose to about face and engage. This is something I would have suggested but I like the premise of the Hun trailing his coat along the front and I'm pretty sure the chaps will figure it out.
    The only question I have left is: Where do you intercept them if you roll snake eyes ?!

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The only question I have left is: Where do you intercept them if you roll snake eyes ?!
    There would have been at least 9 rolls prior to the 10th arrow with 3+ where the snake eyes would be valid. If you have rolled 10 times under the required number you deserve to get back over the lines unmolested. Alternatively you could fly the trench lines until you rolled a 3+ which shouldn’t take long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The only question I have left is: Where do you intercept them if you roll snake eyes ?!
    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    There would have been at least 9 rolls prior to the 10th arrow with 3+ where the snake eyes would be valid. If you have rolled 10 times under the required number you deserve to get back over the lines unmolested. Alternatively you could fly the trench lines until you rolled a 3+ which shouldn’t take long.
    I was thinking along the same lines as Baz - I really don't think anyone will make it to that point.
    If you do, claim a Major Victory and go home.

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    Played the game. Got as far as the 4+ arrow spot but that’s partly due to the fast Sopwith tripes skipping a couple of zones. The only thing people might want to note is that the patrolling formation will change with each turn. The tripes started in line abreast and went to an echeloned line astern after the 1st turn, to another line abreast after the 2nd turn and finally another echeloned line astern after the 3rd..

    Now if I had flipped the patrol to counter clockwise the turns could have been 90 degree ones but I went with the direction in the scenario write up.
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 06-02-2023 at 11:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I was thinking along the same lines as Baz - I really don't think anyone will make it to that point...
    You will if you use Peter's suggested short cut of rolling first and setting up the game from that point onward..
    That might also resolve the formation and tight turn issues.

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    You will if you use Peter's suggested short cut of rolling first and setting up the game from that point onward..
    Not sure what you are seeing there. You would still have to roll for each arrow.
    By the time you get to the 3+ you will have rolled 10 times.

    My idea for this scenario was to evoke the feeling of actually being on patrol, not sure when/if an enemy would appear, rather than starting from the moment the enemy arrives.
    Last edited by Stumptonian; 06-03-2023 at 10:45.

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    Gotcha. I'd been rolling off and was coming up with 5's & 6's as I'd expected when I threw a snake eyes so just wondered where that would be if someone did throw that badly.
    I might use my 'formation flying' trick I've used with tandems, so can I just plot for the leader and his cover hold their station through the turns
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    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

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    Now that Dave, is a great idea for formation flying I may borrow it

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    Colonel Stumpy - neat idea moving the planes around like this, I didn't actually move them but carried out the checks at the appropriate places.

    Unfortunately I gained no advantage sneaking up from behind, it was a head to head against overwhelming maching gun fire. You'll be pleased to know we came out of it better than the Light Brigade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Gotcha. I'd been rolling off and was coming up with 5's & 6's as I'd expected when I threw a snake eyes so just wondered where that would be if someone did throw that badly.
    I might use my 'formation flying' trick I've used with tandems, so can I just plot for the leader and his cover hold their station through the turns
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    This is interesting. Good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Colonel Stumpy - neat idea moving the planes around like this, I didn't actually move them but carried out the checks at the appropriate places.

    Unfortunately I gained no advantage sneaking up from behind, it was a head to head against overwhelming maching gun fire. You'll be pleased to know we came out of it better than the Light Brigade.

    Just finished my try at the Stumpy kill fest. I wish I came out as good as the Light Brigade. (and we weren't even jumped from behind)



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