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Thread: Handley Page Halifax card request

  1. #1

    Default Handley Page Halifax card request

    Another new plane in search of a card.

    Handley Page Halifax B Mk.III, 192 Squadron, RAF

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ID:	326120

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  2. #2

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    It's been almost a month so I thought I'd bump my three different card requests: SM.79 II Sparviero, Short Stirling, and HP Halifax B Mk.III bombers. I couldn't find any stats for the two British bombers.

  3. #3

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    I am having difficulty finding a line drawing for this plane. This might not be doable, at least by me.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I am having difficulty finding a line drawing for this plane. This might not be doable, at least by me.
    This was cobbled together with blueprints from several different marks of Halifax. Boulton Paul Turrets of different types were used on the dorsal position, as well as radial and turbo engines. Different noses, with unglazed, glazed and turreted fittings? Not a good drawing of any of these in one continuous drawing...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  5. #5

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    Looks pretty good to me Mike. I have a line top down of the BVI variant which did not vary from the BIII excepting in some details like the engines fitted and some electrics etc, none of which would make any real difference visually.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Looks pretty good to me Mike. I have a line top down of the BVI variant which did not vary from the BIII excepting in some details like the engines fitted and some electrics etc, none of which would make any real difference visually.
    Rob.
    Trying to trace out the history of a plane by drawings is a challenge. I found this:

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    Note: It isn't a full wingspan drawing, and the nose was cut off. This drawing didn't have a dorsal turret, and had Merlin (inline) engines. It had the benefit of being much, much better quality than any other full version I could find.

    Then, I melded parts of these drawings into the above:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Note: This had the right (mostly complete) forward fuselage with dorsal turret, and showed the wing mountings for the radial Hercules engines. These were usable, but I had to flip the image for the opposite wing. Then, I noticed the exhausts on the starboard wing were both on the same side of the engine, and one of the mountings had to be flipped to put the exhaust on the correct side.

    The antenna wires had to be edited out of all the drawings, and added back in after all the other editing. This is hopefully close to your plane...
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #7

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    It looks great to me! And I appreciate all of the research and work it took to piece this plane together.

  8. #8

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    Nice, they flew the Halifax from our local airfield, RAF Tarrant Rushton, towing the gliders for Op Tonga (Pegasus bridge) on D-Day and for other, later, airborne ops.

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #9

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    The aircraft museum Neil took me to was a Free French Halifax base.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #10

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    To be fair, I didn't ask which model of Halifax was wanted. Might need to go back.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  11. #11

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    Please check for errors...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Work-Halifax Card_V3.jpg  Views: 9  Size: 97.8 KB  ID: 327449" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    [Edited: Changed the rear arc to match turret rotation capabilities. 130 degree rear Boulton-Paul Type E Mk III turret]
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-09-2023 at 23:21.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  12. #12
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-09-2023 at 13:31.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  13. #13

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    Looks good to me.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Looks good to me.
    Karl
    Excellent! Thank you Karl. Does the Short Stirling card need any adjustment to it's arcs?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetheclouds View Post
    Excellent! Thank you Karl. Does the Short Stirling card need any adjustment to it's arcs?
    See the Stirling thread.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetheclouds View Post
    Excellent! Thank you Karl. Does the Short Stirling card need any adjustment to it's arcs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    See the Stirling thread.
    Karl
    I went back and checked the arcs for 'official' planes and turret types. Lancasters and Halifaxs had the same rear turrets, so the rear arcs should be the same as this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Work-Landcaster MkI Card-Arcs.jpg  Views: 21  Size: 66.2 KB  ID: 327441" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    However, the front turret was removed from the Halifax Mk IIIs, as indicated in this drawing:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Halifax_49055031176_f840c974cf_3k_Crop.jpg 
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    So, it should have a restricted arc to the front, I suspect.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  17. #17

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    I personally would give it the standard front firing arc (90 degrees), but the He.111 and the B-25 both have front arcs like you drew, with similar noses.
    So go with that.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  18. #18

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    Updated the cards above for firing arcs and note.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I went back and checked the arcs for 'official' planes and turret types. Lancasters and Halifaxs had the same rear turrets, so the rear arcs should be the same as this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Work-Landcaster MkI Card-Arcs.jpg  Views: 21  Size: 66.2 KB  ID: 327441" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    However, the front turret was removed from the Halifax Mk IIIs, as indicated in this drawing:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Halifax_49055031176_f840c974cf_3k_Crop.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	48.2 KB 
ID:	327442

    So, it should have a restricted arc to the front, I suspect.
    Details of the Boulton Paul Type E Mks. I , II and III

    Position in aircraft: Tail
    Power system: Electro hydraulic
    Armament: Four 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Browning Mk.II guns
    Ammunition: 2,500 rounds per gun
    Field of fire:
    Traverse: 65 degrees either side
    Elevation: 60 degrees
    Depression: 50 degrees
    Weight empty: 309 kg (403 lb)
    Weight armed : 308 kg (679 lb)
    Gunsight: Mk.IIIA reflector gunsight

    Mk.I: First production batch
    Mk.II: Modfied controls and elevation of 56.5 degrees
    Mk.III: Fitted to Liberator and later Halifaxes

    The following aircraft were fitted with the Boulton Paul Type E Mks.I, II and III

    Aircraft types: Handley Page Halifax B.Mk.I, B.Mk.II, B.Mk.III, B.Mk.V & B.Mk.VI, Consolidated Liberator B.Mk.II
    Type & Mark:
    Type E Mk.I & II: early Halifaxes
    Type E Mk.III: Consolidated Liberator Mk.II & later Halifaxes
    Positon: Tail
    Guns: 4 x 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Browning Mk.II
    Traverse:
    E Mk.I & II: 180 degrees
    E.Mk.III: 130 degrees
    Elevation:
    E.Mk.I: 60 degrees
    E.Mk.II: 56.5 degrees
    E.Mk.III: 60 degrees
    Depression: 50 degrees
    Status: Series production

    The above text and photos were taken from "British Aircraft Armament Vol.1: RAF Guns and Turrets", by R Wallace Clarke.
    May have to narrow that tail arc. It isn't the same as the Lancaster or Stirling.
    [Edit: Card adjusted to 130 degree tail turret arc]
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-09-2023 at 23:23.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59



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