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Thread: Short Stirling card request

  1. #1

    Default Short Stirling card request

    I've picked up a few new planes (Short Stirling, HP Halifax, SM-79 II Sparviero, and Me 262B) and I'm looking for cards to go with them. Any help would be appreciated.

    Short Stirling: 90 Squadron, RAF, 1944

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    Last edited by abovetheclouds; 05-04-2023 at 15:59.

  2. #2

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    It's been almost a month so I thought I'd bump my three different card requests: SM.79 II Sparviero, Short Stirling, and HP Halifax B Mk.III bombers. I couldn't find any stats for the two British bombers.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetheclouds View Post
    It's been almost a month so I thought I'd bump my three different card requests: SM.79 II Sparviero, Short Stirling, and HP Halifax B Mk.III bombers. I couldn't find any stats for the two British bombers.
    Hmmm... The SM.79 is already available.
    Link-> OldGuy59's WWII Italian Bombers Album - SM.79 II Sparviero Plane Card (There are a few different planes, with management cards)

    PS: I have a line drawing of a Short Stirling Mk IV...
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post

    PS: I have a line drawing of a Short Stirling Mk IV...
    I'll keep my fingers crossed. Plus, I wonder if Karl would be able to provide the stats for both the Short Stirling, and the HP Halifax.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetheclouds View Post
    I'll keep my fingers crossed. Plus, I wonder if Karl would be able to provide the stats for both the Short Stirling, and the HP Halifax.
    I'll see what I can do, but I'm coming down to the wire for Origins, and despite my best intentions, I'm behind on my deadlines.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #6

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    I looked around, and found that I had done them

    Short Strling Mk.I:
    Deck: XA; Hits: 48; Ceiling: 6; Climb: 8
    Guns: Nose turret: A/A, 180, low to high;
    Dorsal turret: A/A, 360 level to high;
    Tail turret: B/A; use Lancaster arc; just shy of 180, low to high.

    Halifax Mk.III:
    Deck: XA; Hits: 43; Ceiling: 8; Climb: 9
    Guns: Front gun: A/A, front arc, low to high;
    Dorsil turret: B/A, 360 level to high;
    Tail turret: B/A, use Lancaster arc; just shy of 180, low to high.

    Karl
    Last edited by Jager; 06-06-2023 at 12:49. Reason: changing the firing arcs
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I looked around, and found that I had done them

    Short Strling Mk.I:
    Deck: XA; Hits: 48; Ceiling: 6; Climb: 8
    Guns: Nose turret: A/A, front arc, low to high;
    Dorsal turret: A/A, 360 level to high;
    Tail turret: B/A; rear arc, low to high.

    Halifax Mk.III:
    Deck: XA; Hits: 43; Ceiling: 8; Climb: 9
    Guns: Front gun: A/A, front arc, low to high;
    Dorsil turret: B/A, 360 level to high;
    Tail turret: B/A, rear arc, low to high.

    Karl
    You, Sir, are Awesome!

    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  8. #8

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    Fantastic! Thank you Karl!!

  9. #9

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    Are the arcs OK on this? I used a modified Lancaster layout...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Work-Stirling Card_V2.jpg  Views: 32  Size: 98.5 KB  ID: 327447" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    [Edited: Adjusted Firing arcs to match turret capabilities.]
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-09-2023 at 13:35.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  10. #10
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-09-2023 at 17:53.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  11. #11

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    I am extremely pleased with these cards. It'll be nice to have some new British bombers to fly.

    I'll download these cards and have them prepped to print upon Karl's approval of the firing arcs.

  12. #12

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    Well, the one source I have for arcs only has the front and back as standard arcs . However, since it says that for the Manchester, and we know from
    the Lancaster that they are greater, use the Lancaster arcs. So go to a full 180 for the front turret.
    I'll fix the files.
    Karl

    PS: changed the Halifax's tail turret arc to match. the front gun will stay the same in this model.
    Last edited by Jager; 06-06-2023 at 12:50.
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Well, the one source I have for arcs only has the front and back as standard arcs . However, since it says that for the Manchester, and we know from
    the Lancaster that they are greater, use the Lancaster arcs. So go to a full 180 for the front turret.
    I'll fix the files.
    Karl

    PS: changed the Halifax's tail turret arc to match. the front gun will stay the same in this model.
    Do the arcs need to be adjusted on Mike's card? Or are they good to go?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by abovetheclouds View Post
    Do the arcs need to be adjusted on Mike's card? Or are they good to go?
    The front turret need to be 180. So yes, an change is needed.
    Sorry Mike.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  15. #15

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    The 'official' Lancaster card has these arcs:

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    The Short Stirling has the same turret mountings? So, the arcs should be the same?

    And the H-P Halifax had the same rear turret on all marks, so the Mk III should have the same rear arc, I suspect.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  16. #16

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    I think it should be 180, but since this is how Andrea drew it for the Lanc, yes use that arc.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  17. #17

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    Cards above corrected for errors and firing arcs.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I think it should be 180, but since this is how Andrea drew it for the Lanc, yes use that arc.
    Karl
    Details of the Type F-N.20 Tail Turret
    Position in Aircraft: Tail
    Motive Power: Hydraulic Motor
    Armament: 4 x 7.7 mm (0.3030 in) Browning Mk.II Guns
    Ammunition: 2,500 rounds per Gun; 1,900 in Fuselage Boxes, 600 in Feed Tracks
    Ammunition Feed: F-N Hydraulic-servo-feed from Fuselage Boxes
    Gunsight: Mk.III free mounted Reflector Sight; Mk.IIC Gyro Gunsight
    Fire Control: Palmer electric

    Field of view:
    Traverse: 94° to each Beam
    Elevation: 60°
    Depression: 45°
    Weight of Turret (empty): 148 kg (325 lb)
    Weight (Operational): 614 kg (1,350 lb) = Gunner – 82Kg (180-lb); Guns – 40Kg (88-lb); Ammo – 218Kg (480-lb); Boxes – 15Kg (33-lb); Tracking – 23Kg (50-lb)
    Diameter of Ring: (30˝in)
    Armour (when fitted): 9 mm (0.354in) armoured plates to Front aspect
    If this is representative of tail turrets on Lancasters, Wellingtons, and other aircraft, it would allow firing arcs as indicated on the official Lancaster card.
    Source: Tailend Charlie Ted Church.wordpress.com/tail-gun-turret/
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-09-2023 at 18:36.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  19. #19

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    That'll do the job, Mike.

    Iirc the tail end Charlie could rotate the turret for a quick exit out the back if he needed it.

    "He is wise who watches"

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    If this is representative of tail turrets on Lancasters, Wellingtons, and other aircraft, it would allow firing arcs as indicated on the official Lancaster card.
    Sorry, I was unclear. I meant the front turret. Was it the same?

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Sorry, I was unclear. I meant the front turret. Was it the same?

    Karl
    Details of the Nash and Thompson Type FN.5 Front and Rear Turret

    Position: Nose: Short Stirling Mks.I, II & III, Short Sunderland Mks II, III & V, Vickers-Armstrong Wellington Mks.1A, 1C, II, III, IV & X, Vickers-Armstrong Warwick Mks. I & II, Avro Manchester Mks. I & IA, and Avro Lancaster Mks. I, II, III & VII
    Tail: Vickers-Armstrong Wellington Mks.1A, 1C & III (early)
    Motive power: Nash and Thompson hydraulic, WP 21 kg/sq cm (285 lb/sq in)
    Armament: Two 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Browning Mk.II guns
    Ammunition:
    Nose: 1,000 rounds per gun
    Tail: 2,000 rounds per gun
    Fire control: Palmer hydraulic
    Field of fire:
    Traverse: 190 degrees
    Elevation: 60 degrees
    Depression: 45 degrees
    Rotational speed (Maximum): 90 degrees/sec
    Rotational speed (Minimum): 0.5 degrees/sec
    Weight of turret:
    Wellington: 115 kg (252 lb)
    Stirling: 107 kg (235 lb)
    Manchester/Lancaster: 108 kg (237 lb)
    Diameter of ring: 88 cm (34.5 in)
    Gunsight: Mk.IIIA reflector sight

    The following aircraft were fitted with the Nash and Thompson FN.5 Front and Rear Turrets

    Aircraft types: Vickers-Armstrong Wellington, Vickers-Armstrong Warwick, Avro Manchester, Avro Lancaster, Short Stirling and Short Sunderland
    Type & Mark:
    FN.5: (FN.5A: Avro Manchester & Avro Lancaster)
    Position: Nose and Tail (Vickers-Armstrong Wellington Mks.1A, IC & III early)
    Guns: 2 x 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Browning Mk.II
    Traverse: 190 degrees
    Elevation: 60 degrees
    Depression: 45 degrees
    Source: Forum.axishistory.com - British Power-Operated Gun Turrets
    The above text and photos were taken from "British Aircraft Armament Vol.1: RAF Gun Turrets", by R Wallace Clarke.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59



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