Question about bombing runs
To make a bomb run, a straight card is placed in front of the bombing plane, then the bomb card is placed in front of the straight card. If the bomb card covers the target, it is a hit.
Does the bombing plane then immediately move forward per the straight card? Or can a different maneuver card be played?
About the 'straight card' :Originally Posted by Larry R.
- if the last maneuver card was a stall, it is a stall card that is placed in front of the bombing plane.
- if the last maneuver card was not a stall (ie any other card), it is a straight card that is placed in front of the bombing plane.
No. The bombing is done during the firing step (ie after the movement step of the phase). During the next movement step (ie at the next phase), the plane goes wherever you want accordingly to the next maneuver card you plan(ned).
The 'bombing' card (stall or straight) decribes the movement of the bomb, not that of the plane. It is removed once you drop your bomb.
Example at Turn 3 :
1) You plan your 3 maneuver cards
2) Phase 1 : You move your plane according to your first maneuver card
3) Phase 2 : You say 'bombing', you move your plane according to your 2nd card, you fire, you bomb your target using a stall or a straight card
4) Phase 3 : You move your plane according to your 3rd card, etc.
I guess you know the rule is a bit more complex with the 3 possibilities (Rulebook, p. 37) :
1) when the red dot is totally covered,
2) when the red dot is not totally covered,
3) when no part of the target card is covered.
____
Some interesting sources :
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...do=file&id=354
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=1285
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2733
Last edited by Le Piaf; 04-11-2023 at 19:28.
Once you've planned and made the drop you can make any manoeuvre you wish in the remaining phases. For instance if you declared bombing on the last phase of a turn then in the first phase of the next turn you can move & play the drop; in the remaining two phases you can begin heading for home. From higher altitudes you could be well on your way before the bombs impact !
The first link Luc put up is probably one of the best synopsis of bomb dropping in game. Bombs are placed before shooting is resolved so if you're on target you can't be stopped.
Last edited by flash; 04-12-2023 at 08:38. Reason: spelling !
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Thank-you Luc and Dave for the clarification
Some great explanations going on here! We just did some bombing last week and I do believe we did follow the process correctly. However, we noticed that the rules as they are actually make the bomb faster than the plane by where the bombs end up vs. the speed of the aircraft. We thought that placing the bomb card behind the plane and then doing the bomb card movement might be more accurate.
It could be that dense, tear-drop-shaped objects fall through the air faster than wood and canvas planes with small, inefficient engines fly?
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
But gravity kicks in and the direction a bomb then falls becomes more and more down as opposed to forward. The parabola effect.
where's this pic from, Darryl? That's pretty straightforward explanation and reminds me of some pictures on my books in Nav classesBut gravity kicks in and the direction a bomb then falls becomes more and more down as opposed to forward. The parabola effect.
Yeah. Bring science into it...But gravity kicks in and the direction a bomb then falls becomes more and more down as opposed to forward. The parabola effect.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
Well, the WWW was my friend for that, but it illustrated what I knew I could not type clearly.
And Mike, yes, yes I did bring science in!
What I for one like about the official bombing rules is that they make aiming at a target difficult (especially when a turn of the plane is involved) and simulate the need to anticipate and the inaccuracy of the process.
What is quite difficult (thus fun imho) when applying these official rules is deciding the bombing before moving the bomber while the maneuver card is still face down in the console. The player decides to bomb first (A), then he moves his plane (B), then he applies the trajectory of your bomb (C).
In my view, the comparison between the distance travelled by the plane and that of the bomb matters less than the difficulty and the fun brought by the official rule.
However, I have trouble understanding how you proceed. Is it something like this (on the same line, of course) ?
If so, it'd make bombing easier.
P.S. : This is just my opinion. Of course anyone can adapt the rules the way one and one’s friends like them.
Last edited by Le Piaf; 04-12-2023 at 13:35.
Your first photo is the correct bomb drop without using altitude.What I for one like about the official bombing rules is that they make aiming at a target difficult (especially when a turn of the plane is involved) and simulate the need to anticipate and the inaccuracy of the process.
What is quite difficult (thus fun imho) when applying these official rules is deciding the bombing before moving the bomber while the maneuver card is still face down in the console. The player decides to bomb first (A), then he moves his plane (B), then he applies the trajectory of your bomb (C).
In my view, the comparison between the distance travelled by the plane and that of the bomb matters less than the difficulty and the fun brought by the official rule.
However, I have trouble understanding how you proceed. Is it something like this (on the same line, of course) ?
If so, it'd make bombing easier.
P.S. : This is just my opinion. Of course anyone can adapt the rules the way one and one’s friends like them.
If using altitude (a must!) it would be correct for an altitude 2 drop. The higher you are the more difficult it is to hit the target. From altitudes 3 and 4, the bomb takes longer to reach the ground and you use one more movement card for the bomb, moving it a second time in the next phase, moving it just like an airplane. More cards are added for higher altitudes. See the rule on pg 37.
Bombing isn't easy. It takes practice. We tend to prefer flying the more nimble and fun fighters so don't usually have much experience dropping bombs. I see players complain that it is too hard to hit a target but they are usually guilty of not training at it.
Last edited by Teaticket; 04-16-2023 at 10:20.
never quite got the hang of bombing. i remember when i was running a staaken at origins i spent the time between moving and plotting setting up my airplane and maneuver cards trying to figure out how much of the length of a range stick the bomb would travel once i hit the pickle switch. i kind of got to where i could judge it by eye. when the time came to drop i did get pretty close to the target but not dead on. i definitely wouldnt call it "fun". more like "homework due in the morning".
I'm rubbish at bombing.
Definitely need more practice...but, given the choice, I will always fly a fighter in preference.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
I was wondering if these official rules for WWI bombing were adapted to WWI fighter aircrafts used as bombers when I read WGS rules about WW2 bombing aircrafts that are neither multi-engine bombers nor dive bombers. These rules might be great for WWI. This is a rather simple adaptation of the WGF rules about bombing. From the Battle of Britain Starter pack :
PS : What this rule calls 'the level bombing rules" are more or less the official WGF rules.
Here is a explanatory schema from Woof (link, click here) :
Might spice up scenarios involving a fighter bombing moving targets such as tanks, ships or steam trains.
Last edited by Le Piaf; 04-15-2023 at 11:21.
Never seen it used in WGF, it's a bit limiting but I'm sure it would work fine.. Just that most people I game with can barely cope with the rules as they are, this would blow their minds !
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
The first rule of Flight Club is: you do not follow the rules.
Right ?
It is well stated in the bombing rules that no measurements may be made to assess the success of a bomb release.
So what follows should be considered as a visual approximation that an experienced pilot would use before dropping his destructive load. By the way, at that time engineers were beginning to develop more and more precise bomb aiming and dropping systems.
But this is not a hidden cheating operation!
It is not a question of putting cards between the plane and its target to measure their distance.
The goal is to visually assess the distance between the plane and its target using the length of the playing cards.
On the tables (picture below), the space between the horizontal lines represents the length of a card.
It shows the number of cards (taken lengthwise) separating the red dot on the target card to be bombed and the base of the plane when the bombing is announced and before performing the first maneuver (straight/turn or stall) of the bombing sequence.
To be sure to hit the bull's-eye (red dot covered by the bomb card), you must announce the bombing when the front of the plane's base is in the light gray zone.
Further forward of this zone, it is too late, the bomb will pass the red point.
Behind this zone, the plane is too far, the bomb will fall in front of the red point.
The destruction of the target will only be partial if the red dot is not covered by the bomb card.
If the first maneuver is a turn (then, a straight will be placed in front of the plane to place the bomb, see basic rule), the number of separation cards will be the same as long as we "measure" from the middle of the front edge of the base (where the small black line is in the middle of the shooting cone).
For example, a K deck plane at altitude 2, may announce the bombardment before performing a straight line (or a turn) if the base is at a distance from its target (red point) between 3 cards farthest and 2 cards + 1 centimeter closest.
If there are only 2 cards away, the bomb may fall behind the red point (half damaged if the red point is not covered but the target card is partially covered).
So if there are 2 and a half cards, you are sure to hit the target !
In the diagram :
“Décrochage” = “Stall”
“Ligne droite” = “Straight”
source : my album
Last edited by monse; 04-17-2023 at 13:30. Reason: Correcting issues
Dropping bombs is an exercise in distance judgement and how good one is at it. Practice will help a lot but its still a judgement call.
The last maneuver performed before the drop is important as you can't fly two stalls in back to back. If you slightly are too far away and your last move was a stall then next straight might have you overshoot the drop. Tough to judge in the heat of battle!
Lining up the drop can be a bigger problem. You have to line up the drop quite a distance away and be a sitting duck while you fly to the target. Turn cards may not allow you to line up as we only have one possible turn. What I mean is the turn card is a set degree, no variation. If you are close but not on line and play a turn you will overshoot the turn and still not be lined up. Do this too close to the target and you won't have time to gain proper alignment with slips (if you have them) or more turning.
Bombing for fun! I never get volunteers for flying a bomber in the convention games I run. I wonder why?
You may want to correct that, Simon, there's no bombing allowed at alt 1 ?
Nice diagram but like Peter says, it's a judgement call & practice makes perfect.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
unless you use the WGS bombing rules for fighter aircrafts I mentioned above (post #15), which simulate their low-altitude bombing (after possible 'normal' diving, not that of dive bombers).
WOW! What a great discussion on such an interesting topic! I've been following this closely while I planned and began a bombing mission, playing it out over the course of a few days as time allows. AAR to follow. Thus far in the mission: two DH-4s are each allowed to make two runs at the target area that is protected by two B-firing ground MGs and three enemy scouts. There are two Spad S.7 escorts for the bombers which are flying straight toward the target area with no evasive maneuvers....like sitting ducks..
At this point in the game, the lead bomber made a good drop, but the second bomber missed. The bombers are allowed to circle around and make a second attempt. Quite exciting so far! The game will conclude today. I will post photo highlights in a day or two.
Again, thanks to everyone for the valuable input on bombing.
But that did not relate to your suggested hybrid idea, Simon's diagram is for WW1 and even specifies the alt's.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
That was the meaning of my "unless..." Maybe langage barrier ? Sorry to have made you angry.But that did not relate to your suggested hybrid idea, Simon's diagram is for WW1 and even specifies the alt's.
I directed a comment to Simon regarding the WGF rules and his diagram, nothing to do with your suggestion regarding WGS bombing rules in WGF, so your comment was irrelevant to what I was saying. No language barrier. Not angry,frustrated.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
IMHO the way WoG implements bombing is simply brilliant. No probability rolls, completely skill-based, difficulty level just right, needs practice like in reality.
Only thing I am missing is some concept of "some targets are more difficult to hit than others"
Sorry for the unproductive contribution to this thread
Sorry.
I have corrected the altitude in my previous message.
The Altitude of the example is 2 (and not 1).
yep! 150% lol. then you learn. then you forget and eff up again. then you forget and use your long term house rule like its the "official" rule lol.
Dropping bombs is an exercise in distance judgement and how good one is at it. Practice will help a lot but its still a judgement call.
The last maneuver performed before the drop is important as you can't fly two stalls in back to back. If you slightly are too far away and your last move was a stall then next straight might have you overshoot the drop. Tough to judge in the heat of battle!
Lining up the drop can be a bigger problem. You have to line up the drop quite a distance away and be a sitting duck while you fly to the target. Turn cards may not allow you to line up as we only have one possible turn. What I mean is the turn card is a set degree, no variation. If you are close but not on line and play a turn you will overshoot the turn and still not be lined up. Do this too close to the target and you won't have time to gain proper alignment with slips (if you have them) or more turning.
Bombing for fun! I never get volunteers for flying a bomber in the convention games I run. I wonder why?
what am i? chopped liver lol? [distressed bomber pilot noises intensifies].
The first rule of Flight Club is: you do not follow the rules.
Right ?Sorry, no...
The first rule of Flight Club is - you don't talk about Flight Club!
The actual rules of Flight Club are:
These are the usual table rules:
No kids..
No altitude.
No tailing.
No disruption.
Aim in play (+1 consec hits)
Split-S in play.
Blind spots in play.
EXP = Half start damage rounded up.
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