Ares Games
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: The bird of prey

  1. #1

    Default The bird of prey

    (This is a first draft of a scenario, a work in progress. Any suggestion would be welcome. I’ve played this scenario a couple of times so I most likely missed some annoying situations that need improvements. Besides, I’m sure somebody has already had this idea of scenario. If it’s already been posted on the forums, sorry.)


    1) The idea :
    In WoG, all the players see the whole playing area and are aware of all that is happening on it, seeing where the enemy planes are, who shoot at who, etc., which was not the case in real life. Fonck mentioned it (and other pilots most likely also did) :

    ‘Ten minutes after I took off, I spotted a plane in the distance. I recognized it immediately as a two-seater photo-reconnaissance job. Absorbed in their work, its two occupants had not seen my approach. As usual, I climbed very high in order to dive on the enemy. This tactic, instinctive to birds of prey, always seemed to me to be the best strategy. I surprised them in an attitude of complete security, the pilot still at his controls, and the observer in the act of taking photos, bending out over the cockpit waist-high.

    I swooped down but waited until I was a few meters away before opening fire. With my eyes fixed on the sight, I quickly saw all the details growing rapidly in size. Aiming directly for the middle of the plane, my bullets raked the area which housed the motor and the aircraft's crew.

    It wasn't long before I saw the results (…) the plane, like a gigantic torch, went down at full speed, crashing to the earth.’
    This is a classical situation where an hunter surprises his prey.

    2) The rules :

    The players : 2
    - A bird of prey (or hunter), such as a Spad, in the center of his side at an altitude of 3 or 4.
    - A prey : a two-seater at a two-ruler distance from the hunter (from stand to stand) at an altitude of 2. The orientation of the prey might be random : it can fly perpendicular to the bird or have its back turn to it.

    Game surface : 100 cm x 140 cm

    Special rules :
    At the start of the first turn, the prey secretly draws three C damage cards to see at which phase it becomes aware of the presence of the prey:
    - if there is no special damage on the card, the prey remains unaware of the presence of the raptor, keeps on taking photographs and move forward with a stall card.
    - if there is a special damage on the card, the prey gets aware of the presence of the raptor and, from that moment, choose his maneuver cards.

    Example :
    In turn 1, the bird of prey plans his 3 maneuvers as usual. Meanwhile, the prey draws three C damage cards : only the third card has a special damage on it, meaning that during this turn, the prey remains unaware of the raptor during the first two phases. So he places two stall maneuver cards on the first 2 spaces of the console. (If you don’t have enough Stall cards in your deck, use anything else, you'll replace this card with a stall when you reveal it during the movement step.) The third maneuver card will be whatever the player wants. From then on, the prey will play/plan his maneuvers as usual.
    The prey will also get aware of the raptor as soon as the latter shoots at him.

    Example :
    During turn 1, the prey has drawn three C damage cards : no card has a special damage on it, meaning that the player playing as the prey expects to remain unaware of the raptor during this turn. But, at the end of phase 2, the bird chooses to fire (remember, firing is never mandatory, you can wait for a better, closer target). So the prey, aware of its presence, can now choose another 3rd maneuver card before the start of the third phase.
    Winning conditions : if the prey exists the gaming field alive on the other side of the table, it wins. if the prey shot it down, it wins.


    3) Variants

    1) A dice could be used instead of the C damage cards. For example, if 5 or 6 are drawn, the prey gets aware of the danger.

    2) The prey can also be another fighter. I guess the game surface can be smaller. The objective of the prey is not to flee anymore but to turn around and fight.

    3) This one comes from the memoirs Notes of a lost pilot :
    ‘The same for group flights. The single-seaters have every advantage in flying as a group. They (…) diminish the chances of surprise. You know it doesn’t take very long to get a crate on your neck without having had the time to see it. Yes, two planes flying at 150 kilometers per hour come toward each other at 300. But a crate which is coming toward you head on is scarcely visible at more than two kilometers and a half or three kilometers. At 300 an hour, a kilometer takes twelve seconds ; thus a (German), from the moment he becomes visible, is on you in a period which varies between 24 and 36 seconds.’
    Special rules for this 3rd variant :
    Both fighters are within half a ruler of the center of its own side, facing each other at the same altitude. Both player draw three C damage cards. When they get a card with a special damage, they gets aware of the enemy. Till then they fly forward one straight maneuver card per phase.
    Nota : To avoid unlikely head-on collisions, probability of being aware of the enemy could be increased within the distance of one ruler (or 1,5 ruler).


    Hoping I was clear and that it'll be of any use.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-27-2023 at 21:04.

  2. #2

    Default

    It does cover an important aspect of the air war that is usually overlooked by the game. I like the concept. I do have two comments:
    1. Are you proposing that the observation aircraft would be immune to the no-two-steeps in a row rule before spotting the attacker? If so, in your example, would the observation aircraft be allowed a steep maneuver in the "free-choice" card?
    2. Dice vs card draw probabilities. If allowing a die roll, and allowing the stalker to be spotted on a 5 or 6 on a d6, that's a .333 probability every die roll. The C-deck includes 17 cards, 5 of which have special damage (including the boom card). That's a slightly lower probability, at .294 every card draw. I would make it clear to the players the difference, however slight it may be perceived, while still allowing them the choice of method.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    1. Are you proposing that the observation aircraft would be immune to the no-two-steeps in a row rule before spotting the attacker?
    Yes. The idea behind it was just to have the prey moving slowly so it can be caught up quite quickly (during turn 1 or 2). Imagine the extreme case of a prey being a Spad (variant 2) moving one straight maneuver card per phase, ahead of the raptor. It could never be caught up. Still the max speed at level flight of a Spad was about 220 km/h. I guess quite a few planes could reach this speed (and more), thus catch it, by diving. Moreover, I guess the straight card of the Spad in WoG represents its fastest speed but it could fly slower.

    The rationale behind it in the scenario with a two-seater as a prey was that a stall is needed in game for photo recon.

    Alternately, maybe the shortest arrow among the straight maneuver cards of the WoG decks could be used for any prey ?

    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    If so, in your example, would the observation aircraft be allowed a steep maneuver in the "free-choice" card?
    I guess so, as these Stall maneuvers are just a way to make the plane move slowly, except an Immelmann that requires speed (a straight before it). I guess the stall wouldn't be a good option with an enemy on your back. The Split-S or a steep Side-slip seem conceivable. Don't they ?

    The idea is that the game (and its rules) start for the prey only when it spots the raptor. Before it is a slow careless victim.

    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    2. Dice vs card draw probabilities. If allowing a die roll, and allowing the stalker to be spotted on a 5 or 6 on a d6, that's a .333 probability every die roll. The C-deck includes 17 cards, 5 of which have special damage (including the boom card). That's a slightly lower probability, at .294 every card draw. I would make it clear to the players the difference, however slight it may be perceived, while still allowing them the choice of method.
    Thanks for the clarification !
    I think that it would need more testing to assess which method (or any other) would be the best.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-26-2023 at 09:06.

  4. #4

    Default

    The advantage of a card draw over a dice draw is the ability in the former case to let the prey secretly look at the results of the draw at first and plan his three maneuvers, then be able to show his opponent the card with the special damage that liberates him from passivity.

    We could still change the probabilities of the card draw by removing either some special damage cards or some cards without special damage.

  5. #5

    Default

    I like this idea. We tried it out.

    Prey: Pomilio PC [-/B]
    Hunter: Aviatik D.I [A]

    Try to imagine the map is the coast of southern Albania instead of North West England... The prey started in the centre of the map and played stall, straight, stall, straight continuously until a C damage card with special damage was drawn or it received damage, as explained above. Then the objective of the prey was to escape from the edge of the map it was facing away from at the start. The hunter was allowed to start from any edge of the map except the one directly ahead of the prey.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20230327_200155776~2.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	133.5 KB 
ID:	324558

    The first issue we had was that the hunter's selected start point was too far behind the prey, deliberately chosen so that the prey would get further away from it's "home". Since I (flying the prey) didn't draw any C special damage for a while, this meant I hit the edge of the map and had to be "bounced" back on to it...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20230327_200424114.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	117.1 KB 
ID:	324559

    There then followed some exciting combat where both aircraft drew quite a few damage cards, the prey trying unsuccessfully to avoid the hunter:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20230327_200723005~2.jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	94.9 KB 
ID:	324560

    Finally, the I managed to slip away and the hunter got left behind after doing an immelmann turn:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20230327_201539794~2.jpg 
Views:	57 
Size:	165.5 KB 
ID:	324561

    The prey escaped! This was a fun game, I think I'll try it again some time, but start the prey closer to is own edge of the map.

  6. #6

    Default

    Nice concept Luc. Yes, this is a missing component in our game as we get to see everything on our table. Any scout pilot worth his salt would do their best to get in an attack before their prey could react.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonfrog View Post
    (...)
    Thank you very much for having tested my idea and providing this feed back. Much appreciated and helpful !

    If I correctly understood your After Action Report (correct me if I am wrong), your setup was as follows :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	A0MufQu.jpg 
Views:	51 
Size:	168.5 KB 
ID:	324569

    Here are maybe two ways to improve your scenario, fixing your issue of the hunter's selected start point being too far behind the prey and the prey keeping on ‘bouncing’.

    Btw I’ve just realized that I wrote in my original post :
    A prey : a two-seater within (at least) two-ruler distance from the prey (from stand to stand)…
    What I meant to write was actually :
    A prey : a two-seater within (at least) two-ruler distance from the hunter (from stand to stand)...
    And as a matter of fact, I tested my scenario with the rule ‘a two-seater (strictly) at a two-ruler distance from the hunter’, so I edited my OP in this sense. I am really sorry ! English being not my mother tongue and being also inattentive, sometimes I write the contrary of what I mean

    So, Dom, here is a first possible fix : the rule of the two-ruler distance from the hunter at the start of the game.

    Here is maybe another way that might improve the fun of your scenario :

    1) Step 1 :
    The prey has a mission of photo recon in area 1 and has to take a photograph of site A (and maybe of sites B and C). It can’t fly out of this zone. This zone may be either the upper-half of your map as above or a part of it like in my pic below. The prey can’t see the hunter. So it doesn’t draw any damage card for the moment, just carelessly plans his photo recon following the official Vanilia rules. Btw instead it could either strafe trenches, shoot at balloons, bomb AA guns, fire at a multi-engine bomber flying in a straight line, or whatever mission in area 1.

    The hunter is outside of this zone, so it is somewhere in area 2. It can see his prey and plans the best angle of attack.

    2) Step 2 :
    As soon as any part of the base of the hunter is within ‘range of detection by the prey’ (two rulers of distance), the special rules of my scenario start applying : the prey secretly draws three C damage cards to see at which phase it becomes aware of the presence of the prey, etc. At the same time, the prey keeps on carrying out his mission, planing his maneuver cards to take photographs, strafe, etc.

    To help the hunter intercept his prey, one can pretend he knows or guessed the route of the prey : site A, then B, then C or the prey may have to use only slow maneuver cards (such as the stall) to move.



    As for the winning conditions, the prey could have points for each photograph it took and if it succeeds in fleeing with its valuable information while the hunter would score if it kills the prey before it flees.

    Btw this scenario of yours would start as a solo mission for the prey unaware of the hunter and taking photographs, strafing trenches, etc.

    Hoping it helps. Have fun with this great game.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-27-2023 at 21:06.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Nice concept Luc. Yes, this is a missing component in our game as we get to see everything on our table. Any scout pilot worth his salt would do their best to get in an attack before their prey could react.
    Thanks, Peter, for your support

    The Vanilia official rules are nice to set up fair dog fights where both sides enjoy equal chances. That's something many multiplayers look for.

    In WoG, especially on small (enclosed) maps, such rules may tend to favour maneuvrable planes to the detriment of faster, less maneuvrable aircrafts such as the Spad or the Albatros D.Va (I may be wrong, I am not an Ace of WoG). This scenario is meant to give back the latter an advantage, besides the fact that the hunter/prey situation is classic and that being aware only of a part of our surroundings is 'realistic'.

  9. #9

    Default

    btw more testing is needed to assess the best distance that triggers the test of detection by the prey : 1,5 ruler? 2 rulers? 2,5 rulers? ... ?

    It may also depends on the decks of both planes.

  10. #10

    Default

    Btw, I guess this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Piaf View Post

    1) Step 1 :
    The prey has a mission of photo recon in area 1 and has to take a photograph of site A (and maybe of sites B and C). It can’t fly out of this zone. This zone may be either the upper-half of your map as above or a part of it like in my pic below. The prey can’t see the hunter. So it doesn’t draw any damage card for the moment, just carelessly plans his photo recon following the official Vanilia rules. Btw instead it could either strafe trenches, shoot at balloons, bomb AA guns, fire at a multi-engine bomber flying in a straight line, or whatever mission in area 1.

    The hunter is outside of this zone, so it is somewhere in area 2. It can see his prey and plans the best angle of attack.

    2) Step 2 :
    As soon as any part of the base of the hunter is within ‘range of detection by the prey’ (two rulers of distance), the special rules of my scenario start applying : the prey secretly draws three C damage cards to see at which phase it becomes aware of the presence of the prey, etc. At the same time, the prey keeps on carrying out his mission, planing his maneuver cards to take photographs, strafe, etc.

    To help the hunter intercept his prey, one can pretend he knows or guessed the route of the prey : site A, then B, then C or the prey may have to use only slow maneuver cards (such as the stall) to move.



    As for the winning conditions, the prey could have points for each photograph it took and if it succeeds in fleeing with its valuable information while the hunter would score if it kills the prey before it flees.

    Btw this scenario of yours would start as a solo mission for the prey unaware of the hunter and taking photographs, strafing trenches, etc.

    Hoping it helps. Have fun with this great game.
    ... can be played as a solo scenario :
    1) At first, you can play both roles :
    - the prey doing his solo mission (photo recon...) without knowing there's a hunter
    - the hunter targeting the prey
    2) As soon as the prey gets aware of the hunter, the prey flies to his safety territory in a straight line while the player plays as the hunter trying to stop the prey.

  11. #11

    Default

    With the original setup, if the hunter is to dive down on the prey, the distance can be more verticle and less horizontal. Then you don't have the problem of catching up with the prey.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Piaf View Post
    If I correctly understood your After Action Report (correct me if I am wrong), your setup was as follows :
    Not quite. The prey started in the centre of the map and the hunter started on the edge of the map. The hunter selected one of the sides.

    I like the idea of the prey flying in circles. I think just constantly played turn cards would be the simplest.

  13. #13

    Default

    I have been running a similar game called 'Bounce the Recon' as an intro for rookies at game shows for years. (think I put it in the files somewhere..?)
    It usually involves two hunters and a prey so fathers and sons or friends can play the hunters; one of the team flies the prey, another assists the hunters.
    I usually use an RE.8 as the recon with a brace of Albatros D.III as the hunters. The idea behind this being not too many fancy manoeuvres to confuse the punters; the are the same speed so if they latch on it can't out run them but also if they get it wrong they can lose contact. We use two mats, set up near the side of one, the recon has to turn and run for the opposite edge. It's proven fun and popular.
    Here is the scenario set up instructions:
    Two mats side by side
    Place attacker/s with rear of base on a short mat edge - using range ruler place target just out of range
    Now move & place attacking pair a half ruler wide of each side of the targets base
    Targets first cards will be straight/stall/straight - this will enable the attackers to close and fire on the second card & fire with a +1 on the third...if they choose the right cards !
    (They should be encouraged to sideslip toward target & play straights in first round - no stalls! )
    Target will get to return fire on the third card. Ensure no booms in first part of deck.

    The prey only fires the movement after it's fired upon. (observer leaves the camera & takes up his gun)
    In the next three cards the recon will turn and run for home, they know this but which card will it turn on ? Will they be in position to take advantage ? Will they lose contact ?
    Inevitably the Recon often falls, sometimes it shakes off the enemy, occasionally it kills one or both pursuers.
    It gives the punters a taste of the game with a little complexity and not the standard start opposite sides of the table and charge in like knights of old.

    "He is wise who watches"

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    With the original setup, if the hunter is to dive down on the prey, the distance can be more verticle and less horizontal. Then you don't have the problem of catching up with the prey.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonfrog View Post
    Not quite. The prey started in the centre of the map and the hunter started on the edge of the map. The hunter selected one of the sides.
    Ok, I got it. Thanks for the clarifiaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonfrog View Post
    I like the idea of the prey flying in circles. I think just constantly played turn cards would be the simplest.
    The heart of my idea is to add a test of detection taken by the prey. It can actually be applied to any situation/mission/flight path you like (even to both planes facing each other in the Vanilla dog fight setup). The only 'difficulty' when setting up your scenario might be to assess when starting this test : from the start of the game ? when the hunter is at x-ruler distance of the prey ? ...?

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I have been running a similar game called 'Bounce the Recon' as an intro for rookies at game shows for years. (think I put it in the files somewhere..?)
    It usually involves two hunters and a prey so fathers and sons or friends can play the hunters; one of the team flies the prey, another assists the hunters.
    I usually use an RE.8 as the recon with a brace of Albatros D.III as the hunters. The idea behind this being not too many fancy manoeuvres to confuse the punters; the are the same speed so if they latch on it can't out run them but also if they get it wrong they can lose contact. We use two mats, set up near the side of one, the recon has to turn and run for the opposite edge. It's proven fun and popular.
    Here is the scenario set up instructions:
    Two mats side by side
    Place attacker/s with rear of base on a short mat edge - using range ruler place target just out of range
    Now move & place attacking pair a half ruler wide of each side of the targets base
    Targets first cards will be straight/stall/straight - this will enable the attackers to close and fire on the second card & fire with a +1 on the third...if they choose the right cards !
    (They should be encouraged to sideslip toward target & play straights in first round - no stalls! )
    Target will get to return fire on the third card. Ensure no booms in first part of deck.

    The prey only fires the movement after it's fired upon. (observer leaves the camera & takes up his gun)
    In the next three cards the recon will turn and run for home, they know this but which card will it turn on ? Will they be in position to take advantage ? Will they lose contact ?
    Inevitably the Recon often falls, sometimes it shakes off the enemy, occasionally it kills one or both pursuers.
    It gives the punters a taste of the game with a little complexity and not the standard start opposite sides of the table and charge in like knights of old.
    Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-28-2023 at 02:44.

  15. #15

    Default

    1 vs 1 dogfight
    (played solo to test the idea)

    Setup
    An Albatros at one side of a 68x98cm WoG mat, a Spad at the other side, facing each other, both at altitude 2 :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	zM8uLz9.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	97.4 KB 
ID:	324583

    Turn 1
    1) Tests of detection
    - An unlucky Albatros secretly draws three C-damage cards without special damage. It’ll remain unaware of the Spad during this turn (unless it is fired at first).
    - The first card the Spad secretly draws shows a wounded pilot. The Spad detects the Albatros at the first phase of turn 1.

    Unfortunately for the Albatros, during turn 1, his pilot is contemplating a B&W photo of his darling, examining the map or fiddling with his broken camera while the pilot of the Spad is 100% focused on his surroundings.

    2) Planing
    - The Albatros secretly places 3 mandatory straight maneuver cards on his console.
    - The Spad secretly chooses the 3 cards he wants to play, say he wants to attack the Albatros from the side, so he chooses a right turn, a straight, then a left turn.

    3) Action phases : movement and firing steps

    Here is the outcome at the end of phase 3 of turn 1 (no firing) :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	uAC0rIP.jpg 
Views:	42 
Size:	134.1 KB 
ID:	324584

    Turn 2
    1) Test of detection
    Only the Albatros takes a test of detection as the Spad has already detected the Albatros during the previous turn. The Albatros draws :
    - a first C-damage card without a special damage (his beloved must be very beautiful or his camera definitely broken…)
    - then two C-damage cards with a special damage, so he’ll detect the Spad at the latest at phase 2 of turn 2.

    2) Planing
    - The Albatros secretly places one mandatory straight maneuver card on his console, then two maneuver cards of his choice as the dog fight starts for him at phase 2 of turn 2. At last !
    - The Spad secretly plans a turn to shoot at the Albatros, then say a straight card and an Immelmann card.

    3) Turn 2, Action phase 1 :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0m8OMxK.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	105.0 KB 
ID:	324585

    The Spad firing at the Albatros would trigger the detection of the latter at the following phase (phase 2) if it wasn't already done during the detection test.

    Maybe the pilot of the Albatros should change of friend or of camera.

    3) Turn 2, Action phase 2 :

    The dogfight starts...
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-28-2023 at 04:42.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Piaf View Post
    Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
    It's a simple concept, two v one, played with planes with matched speed (we have used it different types) but it can easily be also be adapted to a one on one with a faster predator. Starting at the edge gives you a whole table to run and fight in. With experienced players as the predators it's fun to try and wrong foot them with slips & stalls before turning for home.
    If you're using altitude then the predators second card could be a dive and utilise the +1 damage.

    "He is wise who watches"

  17. #17

    Default

    Here is an excerpt from my 'Wings' Campaign rules, the part dealing with spotting enemy aircraft, just in case anyone is interested.
    The distances stated assume a game played on a field of 4 'Wings' game mats.

    Initial Movement of Aircraft on the “Wings” Table

    Initially, until at least one Hostile Aircraft (HA) is Spotted, the three manoeuvre cards planned by an aircraft flying a ‘Mission’ can only be “Straight”, “Stall” or “Gentle Sideslip” cards.
    Once this ‘Mission’ aircraft has crossed the table centre line (i.e. entered the enemy half of the mats) the owning player is freed from these movement restrictions, even if no HA have been Spotted (he is assumed to be starting to get into position to perform his ‘Mission’).

    Once an aircraft has successfully Spotted an HA, it can notify other friendly aircraft nearby.
    If it flies a three “Straights” sequence (no other options) as its next three cards, it is assumed to wing-waggle, “gun” or “blip” the engine repeatedly, fire a machine gun, etc. during these three cards, to attract the attention of its fellows.
    All friendly aircraft within one ruler length (any part of its base to any part of the other bases) are then considered to have Spotted the HA also, and can plan freely on the next Game Turn.

    Spotting

    This rule determines when a pilot or observer becomes aware of the presence of an enemy aircraft on the ‘Wings’ game mats.
    An aircraft may not react to a Hostile Aircraft (HA) if it has not Spotted it first.
    {In reality, there are a great many parameters which could affect the ability of an air crewman to detect a hostile aircraft in close proximity; this rule only includes those which I consider to be the most obvious, and also the least complex to adjudicate.}

    Spotting Procedure
    When both players have aircraft on the ‘Wings’ game table, they may attempt to Spot each other.
    After planning his three-card sequence(s), each player selects a target Hostile Aircraft (HA) for each specified crew member in his own aircraft, and when all targets have been declared rolls a die for each Spotting attempt.

    A Hostile Aircraft is spotted on a 1, 2 or 3 on any single d6 die. This roll is adjusted by the criteria listed below:
    Each of these criteria adds 1 to the Spotting die roll (all lines are cumulative)

    1) HA at a lower Altitude Level (unless HA has majority Clear Doped upper surfaces)
    2) HA in Spotter’s rear arc (unless the Spotter has a rear seat observer)
    3) HA in Spotting aircraft’s Blind Spot (this affects all aircraft, not just two-seaters)
    4) HA at any higher Altitude Level is in Spotter’s forward arc (unless the Spotter is a fuselage-winged Monoplane)
    5) If the Spotter’s pilot is engaged in the process of Artillery Observation (concentrating on flying a precise ‘circuit’)
    6) If Spotter’s observer is engaged in the process of Artillery Observation (reading fall of shot) O
    7) If Spotting pilot is actively taking a photograph (three card sequence; pre, during, post). P
    8) If Spotting observer is actively taking a photograph (as for pilot above). O
    9) Each point of Fatigue affecting the Spotting crewman.
    10) If the Spotting aircraft is receiving Anti-aircraft fire.
    11) Each complete two-ruler distance to HA, excluding the first (measured peg-to-peg).
    12) Cloud result is “Scattered” at Spotter’s Altitude Level (see Weather Rules).

    The Spotter adds 2 to the Spotting die roll if:

    13) Cloud result is “Intermediate” at Spotter’s Altitude Level (see Weather Rules).
    14) HA “out of the Sun” (see Weather Rules).

    The Spotter subtracts 1 from the Spotting Roll if:

    a) HA is one Altitude Level higher (two Levels or more means the HA is out of sight).

    Each of the criteria below subtracts 2 from the Spotting die roll (lines are cumulative):

    b) HA is suffering from Smoke Damage.
    c) Friendly “Archie”/”FlaK” bursts are being aimed at HA.
    d) HA is firing Flares.

    O = observer die roll only; P = pilot die roll only; all other criteria apply to both types of aircrew.
    If any crew member in a multi-crew aircraft succeeds in his Spotting attempt, he is assumed to automatically inform all the other crew members during the play of the next manoeuvre card.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  18. #18

    Default

    Tim, I'll look at your rules and try them. Thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-28-2023 at 05:10.

  19. #19

    Default

    Another setup :

    The Red fokker has spotted an Entente bomber. Totally absorbed in trying to shoot it down, it hasn't noticed the US Nieuport behind his back. So it plans his attack on the bomber as in Vanilia rules but also takes tests of detection at each phase as long as it is not fired at by the Nieuport or it doesn't draw a C-damage card with a special damage on it. How long will it remain unaware of the Nieuport ?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	d2HsZ1f.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	114.2 KB 
ID:	324586

  20. #20

    Default

    Another setup :

    A Rumpler is strafing/bombing Entente trenches and AA (machine) guns...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gjw2UcX.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	105.1 KB 
ID:	324587

    ... unaware that, on the other side of the map, a Nieuport, alerted about the attack, is taking off :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	80pliOh.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	94.9 KB 
ID:	324588

    The Rumpler will keep on carrying out his mission unaware of the danger. As soon as any part of the base of the Nieuport is within two rulers of distance from the Rumpler, the latter will start taking tests of detection (the three C-damage cards).

    Winning conditions :
    - The Rumpler will earn victory points when destroying trenches and AA artillery and if it can flee (his territory being on the other side of the map) or at least it won't lose VP if it flees to his territory, as the fight seems unfair on paper. Bringing the Rumpler back home must be valued, mustn't it ?
    - The Entente fighter will earn victory points if it can shoot down the Rumpler.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-28-2023 at 05:57.

  21. #21

    Default

    These are some excellent variations on the theme.

  22. #22

  23. #23

    Default

    I have some minor hesitation about my method of testing detection :

    - either :

    At the start of each turn, the ‘prey’ takes the 3 detection tests of the 3 phases of the turn, so that the player secretly draws three damage cards at once. If the second card has special damage on it, the player secretly plans the second and third maneuvers of his choice. Then the 3 phases are played as usual. During the movement of phase 2, the prey may have to show the special damage on his damage card to his opponent(s).

    - or :

    At the start of each turn, the prey places three maneuver cards (either mandatory ones, straight or stall ones, or of his choice depending on the scenario) on his console. Then, at the start of each of the 3 phases of the turn, he draws one damage card. If this card has special damage on it, the player immediately shows it to his opponent(s) and, if he wants to, secretly replaces the maneuver card(s) still to be played during this turn with the maneuver card(s) of his choice, so that he actually starts planning say at phase 2 at the exact moment when he gets aware of the enemy plane and knowing exactly where this enemy is at this phase.


    Maybe the first method is simpler and would simulate a kind of lag/imprecision due to the surprise. Maybe the second method is more logical. Maybe the difference is minimal.

    Any suggestion would be welcome
    Hoping I am clear.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-28-2023 at 10:58.

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Here is an excerpt from my 'Wings' Campaign rules, the part dealing with spotting enemy aircraft, just in case anyone is interested.
    The distances stated assume a game played on a field of 4 'Wings' game mats.

    Initial Movement of Aircraft on the “Wings” Table

    Initially, until at least one Hostile Aircraft (HA) is Spotted, the three manoeuvre cards planned by an aircraft flying a ‘Mission’ can only be “Straight”, “Stall” or “Gentle Sideslip” cards.
    Once this ‘Mission’ aircraft has crossed the table centre line (i.e. entered the enemy half of the mats) the owning player is freed from these movement restrictions, even if no HA have been Spotted (he is assumed to be starting to get into position to perform his ‘Mission’).

    Once an aircraft has successfully Spotted an HA, it can notify other friendly aircraft nearby.
    If it flies a three “Straights” sequence (no other options) as its next three cards, it is assumed to wing-waggle, “gun” or “blip” the engine repeatedly, fire a machine gun, etc. during these three cards, to attract the attention of its fellows.
    All friendly aircraft within one ruler length (any part of its base to any part of the other bases) are then considered to have Spotted the HA also, and can plan freely on the next Game Turn.

    Spotting

    This rule determines when a pilot or observer becomes aware of the presence of an enemy aircraft on the ‘Wings’ game mats.
    An aircraft may not react to a Hostile Aircraft (HA) if it has not Spotted it first.
    {In reality, there are a great many parameters which could affect the ability of an air crewman to detect a hostile aircraft in close proximity; this rule only includes those which I consider to be the most obvious, and also the least complex to adjudicate.}

    Spotting Procedure
    When both players have aircraft on the ‘Wings’ game table, they may attempt to Spot each other.
    After planning his three-card sequence(s), each player selects a target Hostile Aircraft (HA) for each specified crew member in his own aircraft, and when all targets have been declared rolls a die for each Spotting attempt.

    A Hostile Aircraft is spotted on a 1, 2 or 3 on any single d6 die. This roll is adjusted by the criteria listed below:
    Each of these criteria adds 1 to the Spotting die roll (all lines are cumulative)

    1) HA at a lower Altitude Level (unless HA has majority Clear Doped upper surfaces)
    2) HA in Spotter’s rear arc (unless the Spotter has a rear seat observer)
    3) HA in Spotting aircraft’s Blind Spot (this affects all aircraft, not just two-seaters)
    4) HA at any higher Altitude Level is in Spotter’s forward arc (unless the Spotter is a fuselage-winged Monoplane)
    5) If the Spotter’s pilot is engaged in the process of Artillery Observation (concentrating on flying a precise ‘circuit’)
    6) If Spotter’s observer is engaged in the process of Artillery Observation (reading fall of shot) O
    7) If Spotting pilot is actively taking a photograph (three card sequence; pre, during, post). P
    8) If Spotting observer is actively taking a photograph (as for pilot above). O
    9) Each point of Fatigue affecting the Spotting crewman.
    10) If the Spotting aircraft is receiving Anti-aircraft fire.
    11) Each complete two-ruler distance to HA, excluding the first (measured peg-to-peg).
    12) Cloud result is “Scattered” at Spotter’s Altitude Level (see Weather Rules).

    The Spotter adds 2 to the Spotting die roll if:

    13) Cloud result is “Intermediate” at Spotter’s Altitude Level (see Weather Rules).
    14) HA “out of the Sun” (see Weather Rules).

    The Spotter subtracts 1 from the Spotting Roll if:

    a) HA is one Altitude Level higher (two Levels or more means the HA is out of sight).

    Each of the criteria below subtracts 2 from the Spotting die roll (lines are cumulative):

    b) HA is suffering from Smoke Damage.
    c) Friendly “Archie”/”FlaK” bursts are being aimed at HA.
    d) HA is firing Flares.

    O = observer die roll only; P = pilot die roll only; all other criteria apply to both types of aircrew.
    If any crew member in a multi-crew aircraft succeeds in his Spotting attempt, he is assumed to automatically inform all the other crew members during the play of the next manoeuvre card.
    Your system is complex and very realistic. Well done

    1) I like your idea of a plane, that has detected an enemy plane, able to :
    ‘wing-waggle, “gun” or “blip” the engine repeatedly, fire a machine gun, etc. (…) to attract the attention of its fellows’ so that ‘all friendly aircraft within one ruler length (any part of its base to any part of the other bases) are then considered to have spotted’ the enemy plane.
    2) I also really like the way your system deals with fights implying several planes vs several planes, with crewmen engaged in a process, with weather, fatigue, altitude, etc. Very impressive. If someone wants a realistic simulation of it, your method is definitely a must-play.

    In contrast, I think I will keep my method of detection simple (at least for the moment) :
    - if someone on a plane suddenly notices the presence of one enemy plane, he’ll be supposed to rapidly scan the whole sky and be able to see any other enemy (who often flew in formation). Of course, anyone can modify this rule at will.
    - you also raise the interesting question : could a plane suffering from smoke/fire damage spot an enemy ?
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-28-2023 at 20:45.

  25. #25

    Default

    My version of airplanes not being aware of the enemy position in a sea recon mission:

    My player-controlled long-range float plane is searching for the enemy fleet. AI-controlled carrier based fighters are patroling the area.
    As long as the float plane has not spotted the fighters, i am forced to overfly a sequence of checkpoints.
    As long as the fighters have not spotted the float plane, they are forced to fly a random pattern.
    When the enemy is in shooting range, it is considered spotted. Spotting is always mutual. The player is then freed from following the checkpoints. The AI stops the random pattern and will head for the float plane.

  26. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Piaf View Post
    Your system is complex and very realistic. Well done

    1) I like your idea of a plane, that has detected an enemy plane, able to :


    2) I also really like the way your system deals with fights implying several planes vs several planes, with crewmen engaged in a process, with weather, fatigue, altitude, etc. Very impressive. If someone wants a realistic simulation of it, your method is definitely a must-play.

    In contrast, I think I will keep my method of detection simple (at least for the moment) :
    - if someone on a plane suddenly notices the presence of one enemy plane, he’ll be supposed to rapidly scan the whole sky and be able to see any other enemy (who often flew in formation). Of course, anyone can modify this rule at will.
    - you also raise the interesting question : could a plane suffering from smoke/fire damage spot an enemy ?
    Thanks for the feedback!

    Your system is complex and very realistic.
    - yeeeeeesssssss...........
    It started off simple, but I kept thinking of extra bits and added them in - a common complaint I just can't shake off.

    In contrast, I think I will keep my method of detection simple (at least for the moment)
    Good idea! Sometimes I think I should have left mine well alone.

    you also raise the interesting question : could a plane suffering from smoke/fire damage spot an enemy ?
    No.
    In the interests of simplicity, I assume that smoke envelops the crew, shrouding tiny distant aircraft from being identified.
    As for fire, the crew would be ENTIRELY focused on that! - preventing its spread, avoiding the flames themselves, trying to put the plane down in one piece. If an enemy has been close enough to inflict a fire, don't bother seeking out other enemies; get home!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  27. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    It started off simple, but I kept thinking of extra bits and added them in - a common complaint I just can't shake off. (...) Sometimes I think I should have left mine well alone.
    You did very well. I am sure many players enjoy your rules.
    To each his own.
    No need for me to make complex rules as you've already done it very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    No.
    In the interests of simplicity, I assume that smoke envelops the crew, shrouding tiny distant aircraft from being identified.
    As for fire, the crew would be ENTIRELY focused on that! - preventing its spread, avoiding the flames themselves, trying to put the plane down in one piece. If an enemy has been close enough to inflict a fire, don't bother seeking out other enemies; get home!
    I thought so. Thanks for your advice

  28. #28

    Default

    Here is a summary of my rules. Please, suggest any refinement, correct any mistake, ask for any clarification, etc. I was inspired by Tim's rules for rules 4 and 5. Thank you.

    Rules

    If a scenario says that a plane won’t notice all the enemy aircrafts in the sky from the start of the game :

    1) This aircraft carries out its mission (such as bombing, strafing, photo recon, interception of a bomber…) or follows a predetermined flight path without considering the enemy planes his pilot isn’t aware of,

    2) At the start of a turn, if any part of the base of an unnoticed enemy plane is within range of two rulers of distance from the plane, the player starts drawing three C-damage cards before planning his three maneuvers. The first C-damage card with a special damage on it indicates at which phase the pilot gets aware of his enemies, ie. at what phase the player will be able to plan the maneuver cards of his choice in accordance with the planes previously unnoticed. (If they wish it, the player shows his opponents this C-damage card when revealing his maneuver card.) From the next turn, the player follows the Vanilia rules of planning. He doesn’t draw C-damage cards anymore.

    3) If the plane is shot at during a turn, his pilot is assumed to notice all his enemies in the sky. And the player can plan the maneuvers of his choice at the start of the next turn, so that, from this turn on, the player follows the Vanilia rules.

    4) A plane suffering from smoke or fire damage can’t detect an enemy. The player can’t draw the three C-damage cards for detection as long as there’s smoke or fire.

    5) All friendly aircrafts of the first plane that has just noticed the enemy planes draw 6 C-damage cards, instead of 3 previously, from the next turn (2 cards per phase), greatly increasing the probability of their understanding of what’s going on.

  29. #29

    Default

    After all the back and forth, it does seem that you've developed the rules to a good point. As mentioned earlier, it does cover an important aspect of aerial combat-that of securing a major advantage by being the first to spot your enemy. And does so in a relatively easy-to-handle way, keeping the spirit of the original game system.



Similar Missions

  1. Another bird down
    By BobP in forum Officer's Club
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-28-2016, 07:46
  2. AAR Mediterranean Theatre - Prequel 1: Wrong Prey
    By Blackronin in forum Fire in the Skies
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 02-26-2014, 22:31
  3. WGF Birds of prey.or is it pray
    By Grey Knight in forum Hobby Room
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-01-2013, 11:50
  4. The hunter and its prey
    By Thomatchef in forum WGS: After Action Reports
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-14-2012, 00:20
  5. Big Bird for the Big Brass
    By pflanzer in forum Hobby Room
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-26-2010, 10:13

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •