Ares Games
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Two-seaters, observers wounded and bombing

  1. #1

    Default Two-seaters, observers wounded and bombing

    When the observer of a two-seater is wounded, the rulebook of WGF published in 2020 says : "if the two-seater airplane has a mission, the scenario indicates whether the mission can be performed by an airplane with an incapacitated observer or not" (p. 23).

    So it seems that the official Vanilla rules let the players decide whether or not a bombing mission can be done without the observer". Is that so ?

    If there's no other official rule about it, do you think/know whether or not the pilot of a Breguet XIV or a Rumpler C. IV could carry out a bombing mission alone ? What house rule do you use ?

    J.M. Bruce and J. NoŽl says in The Breguet 14 : "Bomb aiming and releasing were responsibilities of the observer; both he and the pilot had sliding trap-doors in the fuselage underside to give them a clear view of the ground" (p. 7)

  2. #2

    Default

    That's an interesting point. If the observer had to pull the lever, then probably not?

  3. #3

    Default

    Good question, Luc. My rule book states a wounded observer may not operate his machine gun, but the rules do not address other observer functions. I think your notion is correct. It depends on the two-seater type. Perhaps some forum member will refer us to a table of two-seater a/c that clarifies this issue.

  4. #4

    Default

    Can a single sester on fire carry out observation? Rules don’t say.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    Can a single sester on fire carry out observation? Rules donít say.
    Of course not.

    Plane on fire, no parachute.....there can be only one thing on the mind of a pilot (and observer, for that matter) - Survival.
    Mission be damned - get down alive.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  6. #6

    Default

    Anecdotally and to make things even more complicated, on both the Breguet XIV A2 and B2, dual control was provided for the observer (maybe to help him aim when he used the bomb sight ?).

    If his pilot was killed, could the observer get the plane safely home or at least make it land in a field ?
    (Not that I want to create special rules for specific planes I tend to prefer generic rules.)

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Piaf View Post
    on both the Breguet XIV A2 and B2, dual control was provided for the observer (maybe to help him aim when he used the bomb sight ?).
    If his pilot was killed, could the observer get the plane safely home or at least make it land in a field ?
    The EMERGENCY CONTROL card is not included in Breguet 14 packs (see detail here).

    But in RAF RE.8 packs (30 Squadron - Marsh/Mac Kay Dempster - 59 Squadron)

    Emergency Controls: allow the observer to control the aircraft in a limited way in case the pilot is eliminated. The observer then has the following maneuvers at his disposal: 3 straights, 2 turns on each side, 1 stall. He cannot shoot, bomb or take pictures. But he can use his ace skills if he has them.

    No mention of landing on the Emergency Controls card as this Technical card is used with Standard Rules (and not Advanced Rules that include landing).
    But those emergency controls were aimed at getting back the crew alive, so with a landing ability.
    Just transpose the landing rules to this card, by adding the Descent card to the available maneuvers.


  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by monse View Post
    The EMERGENCY CONTROL card is not included in Breguet 14 packs (see detail here).

    But in RAF RE.8 packs (30 Squadron - Marsh/Mac Kay Dempster - 59 Squadron)

    Emergency Controls: allow the observer to control the aircraft in a limited way in case the pilot is eliminated. The observer then has the following maneuvers at his disposal: 3 straights, 2 turns on each side, 1 stall. He cannot shoot, bomb or take pictures. But he can use his ace skills if he has them.

    No mention of landing on the Emergency Controls card as this Technical card is used with Standard Rules (and not Advanced Rules that include landing).
    But those emergency controls were aimed at getting back the crew alive, so with a landing ability.
    Just transpose the landing rules to this card, by adding the Descent card to the available maneuvers.

    NIce ! Thanks for the info.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Piaf View Post
    When the observer of a two-seater is wounded, the rulebook of WGF published in 2020 says : "if the two-seater airplane has a mission, the scenario indicates whether the mission can be performed by an airplane with an incapacitated observer or not" (p. 23).
    If there's no other official rule about it, do you think/know whether or not the pilot of a Breguet XIV or a Rumpler C. IV could carry out a bombing mission alone ?
    If your scenario doesn’t precise that the mission can’t be performed with an incapacited observer, so you can decide that the mission can be performed with an incapacited observer.

    Moreover, the observer wounded rule shows an example :
    some cameras could be used by the pilot.

    So a bombing mission and a photo recon mission can be performed with a wounded observer, except if the scenario indicates that it can’t be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    Can a single seater on fire carry out observation? Rules don’t say.
    The rule says that an airplane that has smoke or fire counter(s) can’t performed tailing.
    And an airplane that has fire counter(s) can’t execute straight maneuver.

    So according to the rules, a plane on fire or smoke can perform :
    - a bombing, using turns, sideslips and stall.
    - a photo recon, as the plane must execute a stall at half a ruler or less from the target card.

    But you can decide that it can’t perform any of these missions as a house rule.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by monse View Post
    If your scenario doesnít precise that the mission canít be performed with an incapacited observer, so you can decide that the mission can be performed with an incapacited observer.

    Moreover, the observer wounded rule shows an example :
    some cameras could be used by the pilot.

    So a bombing mission and a photo recon mission can be performed with a wounded observer, except if the scenario indicates that it canít be.
    So when writing such a scenario, the question is what is the most historically accurate (and also the funniest) : a bombing mission that can be performed with an incapacitated observer or one that can't ?

  11. #11

    Default

    Generally, in reality a WW1 aircraft on fire continued to rapidly burn....rarely if ever was the fire extinguished. So, for a burning plane its mission was over. In WoG, however, a fire is of limited duration. A bomber on fire could go on to finish a bomb run.



Similar Missions

  1. ANTIAIRCRAFT GUNS BOMBING BY TWO GERMAN TWO-SEATERS
    By monse in forum WGF: After Action Reports
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-13-2023, 09:41
  2. ANTIAIRCRAFT GUNS BOMBING BY TWO ALLIED TWO-SEATERS
    By monse in forum WGF: After Action Reports
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-22-2022, 21:39
  3. Wounded observers
    By matt56 in forum WGF: House Rules
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 03-29-2015, 10:08
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-09-2013, 10:06
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-14-2012, 13:49

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •