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Thread: Pup's Day Out

  1. #1

    Default Pup's Day Out

    The title was generously supplied by my wife who remembered us reading this to our children many years ago:

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    Having just received my Pups a couple of days ago, I was keen to get them onto the table next time the gang were around. So, the scenario I whipped up was as follows:

    Two Pups were flying a standing patrol when they noticed, in the distance, an Albatros C.III obviously returning from a reconnaissance mission, escorted by an Albatros D.II (unfortunately piloted by the Red Baron).

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    The Pups, throwing caution to the wind, heeled over and attempted an intercept and shoot-down. And so it begins…

    Inevitably, the first shots from the Baron produce an immediate result!

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    The next few seconds saw a near-miss and a hit from the C.III – it never rains but it pours!

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    Oh well, that was a short ‘walk’ for the Pup - and not in the park either!

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    By now the second Pup is within range and gets a shot off at Manfred.

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    And a few seconds later trades shots with the C.III

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    And again with Manfred.

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    That pesky C.III also has something to say

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    As does Manfred (again!).

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    You just can’t take your eyes off a C.III!

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    And the lone Pup starts to show the signs of constant streams of bullets finding their mark.

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    OOO, that was a near miss that meant the C.III rear gunner couldn’t fire (thank goodness!)

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    Meanwhile Manfred was circling attempting to clear a jam

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    That pesky rear gunner again!!!

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    Meanwhile the jam is cleared and the Baron is roaring in eager to take a shot.

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    Uh oh, this doesn’t look good!

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    And a collision doesn’t help the airframe integrity!

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    With the inevitable result of a mid-air meeting being…

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    Not a happy result for the Pups on their first day out.
    Last edited by Biggles downunder; 01-16-2023 at 23:21. Reason: had to upload a few images at a time - a real pain!!!

  2. #2

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    Whoops I imagine that wasn't the result you were hoping for. Pups look nice and hopefully when they're properly trained they'll do better.

    Thanks for the post, it's a good read.
    Cheers

  3. #3

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    Enjoyed the game. Perhaps the C.III should not have been flown so aggresively.

  4. #4

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    Nice AAR!

    Shame your new Pups had their noses rubbed in it! But that seems to be a recurring theme with regard to new aircraft on their first time out (at least, it is with my new planes ).
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Nice AAR!

    Shame your new Pups had their noses rubbed in it! But that seems to be a recurring theme with regard to new aircraft on their first time out (at least, it is with my new planes ).
    Tim, maybe I can join the same support group as you!
    Last edited by Biggles downunder; 01-17-2023 at 04:39.

  6. #6

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    Nice one Wayne - Tim's right. The first time out for most of mine seems to end in disaster. But then that's probably more to do with me than the aircraft model

    Its an interesting one, this contest between the pup and the Albatros. I believe MvR himself reported that he believed the pup to be far superior to the Albatros, having just shot it down This was around late 1916 or early 1917 so I'm not sure which of the varients he was flying at the time and he did say the Pup was outnumbered three to one. But despite that the pup is totally outgunned and has to rely on manoeuvrability, so perhaps I'll try a few solo games using altitude. Me flying the Pup and AI flying a DII or DIII. Then change that over to see how the Pup gets on.
    Anyway, thanks for sharing a nice little bash REP inbound.

  7. #7

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    Nice game! Thanks for sharing!!!

  8. #8

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    Similar fate to my Pup's first appearance. You'll get them next time.

  9. #9

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    New plane curse strikes again, Wayne, seen & suffered it many times !

    "He is wise who watches"

  10. #10

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    Pup v Albatros DIII

    Firstly, my apologies. I'm not trying to hi jack this thread, but just to satisfy my own curiosity, I said above that I’d run a few trials for a Pup v Albatros DIII. So here is the first. I'll shift it to a different thread if anyone objects to this being here.

    Trial number 1 – I used Flash’s D8 J chart for the Albatros and flew the Pup myself. Now under normal circumstances, this would have gone horribly wrong for me, but that doesn’t take into account that it was the first time out for the Fritz Liese Albatros DIII model by Reduced Aircraft Factory (thanks Daryl – this was the one with the bent prop, now perfectly ok again ) So unexpectedly, just for once, I managed to get things right against Dave’s charts, as you will see under. Didn’t quite go according to plan, so far as damage cards are concerned, but I’m happy that trial number one, at least, went the Pup’s way. It can be done – but its luck of the draw I guess.

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    Things started well for the DIII and it got the first long range shot in. Lo and behold the damage was severe. Uh oh I thought. Here we go again!

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    But I was wrong. The Pup started getting the range and flew rings around the DIII, especially with the help of the sharp right and left turns (I used a Fokker Dr1 deck, removing one of the sharp left turns and substituting a sharp right, as per the recommendations elsewhere on this site).

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    Bullets flew every which way, mostly in the direction of the DIII, but the pilot in the Pup was having a real off day and kept missing, especially when a +1 for aim was due

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    But fortunately he wasn’t the only one to miss and before too long the DIII was on eleven damage points out of fourteen. Time to go home.

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    So with one parting shot from the Pup, which not only missed, it jammed the Pup’s gun, for the second time, it was all over.

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    Nine turns it took and I really enjoyed it. Next time I shall play the DIII and Dave’s D* chart can play host to the Pup.

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    Happy days

    Notes:
    1. The only interference, by me, with the AI movement was the need to ensure the DIII took a straight after an Immel turn. Here, I choose the cards in the usual way, using the clock system, then substitute the first card of a Turn with a straight if needed. The second and third cards are then those that would have been the first two, but for the substitution. Hope that makes sense

    2. I started out intending to play altitude, but given the stats for both aircraft, that relate to ceiling and climb rate, are identical in the game, I gave up, because the AI response to any change in altitude I would make could only possibly introduce bias.

  11. #11

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    Mike - really enjoyed your Pup/D.III excercise.

  12. #12

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    Thanks for sharing, an interesting action, you must be dog-tired after writing that up.

  13. #13

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    you must be dog-tired
    Nice pun - like it Thank heavens you didn't decide to say "What a bi**h" Cheers guys. More to come tomorrow if I have time.

  14. #14

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    You would be in the dog house if you made a comment like that...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    ... The Pup started getting the range and flew rings around the DIII, especially with the help of the sharp right and left turns ..

    Notes:
    1. The only interference, by me, with the AI movement was the need to ensure the DIII took a straight after an Immel turn. Here, I choose the cards in the usual way, using the clock system, then substitute the first card of a Turn with a straight if needed. The second and third cards are then those that would have been the first two, but for the substitution. ...
    Which tallies with contemporary accounts about the Pup and the notes is how the charts should be played !
    (though you replaced a sharp right with a sharp left)

    "He is wise who watches"

  16. #16

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    (though you replaced a sharp right with a sharp left)
    Absolutely correct Dave. Thanks for putting that one straight. I'll put a straw in my left slipper before I write the next report

    You would be in the dog house if you made a comment like that...
    And that would certainly give me paws for thought

    Trial 2 to follow later today - Hope its ok to carry on posting it on this thread.

  17. #17

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    Depends where it "leads"....

    I suppose if you overstep the mark, someone will "Collar" you.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  18. #18

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    Tim that's outrageous! Almost enough to send you, for punishment, to a "Poop" deck somewhere

    Meantime, here's Trial number 2 of Pup v Albatros DIII. This time I am "controlling" (he says wistfully) the DIII. Dave (Flash's) D8 D* is used for the Pup. To be consistent, this is another first time out too, for Franz Ray (Again, thanks to Daryl "Reduced Aircraft Factory" for the superb model).
    No altidude played.

    So, the DIII is patrolling over the area around no-man's land, almost over enemy held territory (1917 the Germans air service began a more offensive strategy). Franz Ray spots a lone Sopwith scout in the distance.

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    The two pilots close on one another, opening fire at close range. The Pup gets the better of the exchange!

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    But not for long. Despite dark oily smoke billowing from the engine somewhere, Franz Ray manages to outmanoeuver his opponent. Firing a burst at long range, he sees fire break out on the Pup.

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    The two enemies circle one another, the Pup's pilot desperately tryiong to keep the flames from his face.

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    But distracted by the fire, he miscalculates his banking turn and the DIII machine guns hit hard, bullets shredding the Pup like a cheese grater.

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    Until the fire completes the business. One final turn by both; an attempt at escape by the Pup, and the latter plunges earthwards, consumed by the flames. Not a nice way to go

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    So, after trial 2, we find that the D8 charts are defeated, first by the Pup and now by the Albatros DIII.

    Trial number 3, tomorrow i hope, will test both aircraft on AI charts alone!

    Until tomorrow then

  19. #19

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    [QUOTE=mikeemagnus;579514]Tim that's outrageous! Almost enough to send you, for punishment, to a "Poop" deck somewhere

    [/QUOTE

    Should that not be a Pup deck Mike?

    I don't want any pup pooping on my deck.https://www.sailsofglory.org/images/.../SGN/smack.png

    Bligh.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  20. #20

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    Should that not be a Pup deck Mike?
    Sincere apologies Admiral - wouldn't want a mess on your deck. But the thought of sending Tim off on a ship with sails , even as far as Labrador, was just too tempting.

    OK Tim, I'll do it for you

  21. #21

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    Pup v Albatros DIII – Third and Final trial.

    Notes: The “DIII” in these photos is actually Ltn Wolf’s DV (again by Reduced Aircraft Factory), but I like the model, wanted to give it its’ first time out, so flew it on Flash’s D8 J chart as a DIII

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    Both models were flown on AI charts, the Pup on Flash’s D8 D* chart, with an appropriately modified Deck.
    Altitude not played.
    Starting position as for the previous two trials. There will be a few anomalies in the photos as I cut loads of them out for the sake of brevity.

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    Both aircraft turned towards one another and closed until they both, simultaneously opened fire at close range. The Pup definitely came off worst this time.

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    After that there was little or no action at all, whilst the two circled around and the fire, once more, did a great deal of damage to the Pup. I had no need to adjust any of the AI moves, to allow for the ban on straights, during the next three turns.

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    Finally they began to draw together again and I have to say that the last three movement cards assigned to the Pup I would definitely not have played, but I doubt very much if any change would have made a difference to the outcome. The victor was the DIII by a long way.

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    Has this proved anything? Probably not, but I’ll leave the judgement to others. At least, please take note, two of the models had a successful first time out And I had a lot of fun whiling away the time on a cold few days

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  22. #22

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    Interesting set of games Mike. In my few AI games, I found flying against an AI plane more fun than running two AI planes against each other.

  23. #23

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    I found flying against an AI plane more fun than running two AI planes against each other.
    I agree with you Craig, although a lot of the time I'm afraid the AI charts make far better decisions than I do

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    I agree with you Craig, although a lot of the time I'm afraid the AI charts make far better decisions than I do


    Amen to that brother I know exactly what you mean

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    ...Finally they began to draw together again and I have to say that the last three movement cards assigned to the Pup I would definitely not have played, but I doubt very much if any change would have made a difference to the outcome...
    Looks like the vector was 4/5 Opening and you rolled a 4 or 5, Mike, if you'd rolled a 2 (s/rt;rt,lt) the Pup might have got a shot away but, as you say it was likely to have made no difference !

    "He is wise who watches"

  26. #26

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    Looks like the vector was 4/5 Opening and you rolled a 4 or 5
    Spot on Dave. I went with vector 4 Opening and rolled 4.

  27. #27

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    Of course, if you didn't want to fly 'full AI', or wanted an assist, you could simply check the vector and select from the suggested options rather than rolling for it.

    "He is wise who watches"

  28. #28

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    Agreed, there are always options to choose from

  29. #29

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    What a fascinating read this has been!

    Fresh out of Pup puns so I’ll have to snoop around for some!

  30. #30

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    Great battle with against the Pups Wayne. Looks like they got swatted with a rolled newspaper.

    Ineteresting set of Pup vs Albatros duals Mike. 2:1 to the Albatros = the gun ratio. Flying a Pup with the swapped in sharp left sure is a game changer. Even with the straight D deck it is a tense battle. I flew several battles a while ago in an Albatros vs my wife's Dragon Pup and she tok it to me.

  31. #31



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