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Thread: OTT-EYM Mission 2 - Hunting and Hunted in the Clouds - Week 2 Jan 12th - Vagabond

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    Default OTT-EYM Mission 2 - Hunting and Hunted in the Clouds - Week 2 Jan 12th - Vagabond

    Well young man, I have a job for you”.
    Don’t you just hate it when the CO is pleasant to you, it means you’re going to get a tricky job to do, one that might just get you killed.
    “Thank you Sir, and what might that be” you enquire carefully.
    “Well the jolly old bombers went across the lines yesterday and claim they’ve destroyed all three of their targets. Naturally HQ believes them but Wing would just like to make sure, so we’d like you to fly over each of the target sites and just confirm they’re all destroyed. This map is marked up with the coordinates and if you could be off in 30 minutes that would be nice”.
    “Yes Sir” you respond dejectedly and off you toddle
    .

    I don’t think I’ve seen a game that uses clouds, although I’m sure there have been plenty that I’ve missed. Anyway I thought I’d try and create a scenario that uses the idea of flying through clouds, from the concept of hiding in them to escape an enemy, to the fact that it was very difficult to fly in a straight line through them and not go astray.

    I’ve played this scenario through 4 times and twice I got shot down easily as well as fairly quickly and twice I achieved the objective but the game was fairly long. Please read through my ideas and if at the end of it you think I’m barking mad I’ve provided a simplified scenario that is perhaps more in line with the usual ones we carry out.

    Firstly you will need 3 targets, I have 3 bridges on my mat and they’re in quite a good position but all that’s important is that they are positioned so that your pilot has to cover most of the board to spot all 3 targets and then make it home and that clouds can cover the targets as they move across the board.
    I’ve indicated positions on the diagram below but if you have obvious targets on your mats that will do the job use them, just ensure that the moving clouds are able to cover the targets when they get to them. See Cloud movement below.

    To view a target you need to be within ½ a movement stick distance from your central peg to the centre of the target and travelling at any speed. The target must be free from cloud cover, if there is a cloud over the central point of the target you can not see it and will have to come back to get a clear view.
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    Next you are going to need clouds, at least 6 of them but 7 or 8 will work as well. I suggest you just use A4 or Letter size white paper and cut out rough cloud shapes; make them as big as possible. I used 1 cloud that was 2xA4 (far right) and joined the 2 sheets together on the long flat side with a bit of masking tape.
    For my trial games I used 1 double sized cloud and 5 or 6 smaller ones, you could have more clouds or substitute an extra double sized one but if you use too few you will get swarmed by the enemy and too many and they can’t see you most of the time. I think 7 in total is probably about right.
    The explosion markers are obviously the targets.
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    This drawing is from the Entente perspective, you chaps flying for the other side will have to turn it round, sorry.
    The left edge is home, you fly from the centre of the home edge, around the board and exit anywhere off the home edge, also note - all the board is Enemy Territory.

    TARGETS
    There are three targets (the black dots) to check, in any sequence that seems safest, the moving clouds will provide cover for your pilot and if you are unlucky they will also cover the target as you arrive to view it.

    CLOUD PLACEMENT
    To place the clouds roll 2 D8 dice, one for the North South axis and one for the East West one. These are the blue numbers on the diagram but use whatever suits you to place them randomly.

    If you get 2 clouds in the same rectangle just re-roll the dice. If you decide you don’t like the placement, maybe because they’re all in one corner then change it to suit your sense of aesthetics. If you don’t have D8’s use some other random method of placement. When you place a cloud make sure it’s long side is horizontal and ensure that it can move in a line to cover a target, see later.

    ENEMY PLANE PLACEMENT
    There are 3 enemy planes, your choice of plane within ones available at the time. They will arrive on the North, East or South edge for the Entente and North, West or South for the Central Powers. I just used 1D8 per plane to give a position but any random method will do. Each plane arrives independently and it may be that 2 planes arrive at the same point, that’s fine, or you may want to re-roll so they all arrive at a different point, it’s up to you.
    Note the planes are on patrol and if they don’t spot an enemy because it’s hidden by cloud the AI will use position 12 o’clock and opening to create its move sequence. The idea being that the patrol will cross the board to the opposite edge and then return to their starting point, repeat this until enemy spotted.
    It would be advisable to avoid starting a plane in position 3 and another one in 4 or similarly 5 and 6 because they will collide at the beginning of the game.

    YOUR PLANE PLACEMENT
    You are in a plane of your choosing starting from the centre of your home edge, you fly to the check the targets in any order and then exit anywhere on your home edge. I would avoid using a plane that is faster than the enemy, otherwise you will just be able to outrun them too easily.

    SEQUENCE OF PLAY
    Plan your move.
    Plan AI moves
    Then on the 1st phase of the movement turn, before any plane moves, you move the clouds up to 4”/100mm to the right. See below.
    Then move planes as normal.

    CLOUD MOVEMENT
    Clouds move once each Turn, NOT each phase and move down wind. The wind blows from left (East) to right (West), irrespective of whose side you are flying for. Clouds move a random distance, between 1” and 4”.
    I used a D8, 1,2 =1”, 3,4 =2”, 5,6 = 3” and 7,8 = 4” to give a random movement. I did this for each cloud but you could roll 1 dice and move all the clouds the same distance if you prefer.

    When the leading edge of a cloud moves off the table on the right hand side, bring it back onto the table on the left hand side in a random position.

    The idea being that you use the clouds as cover to hide from the enemy but there’s a possibility that they will cover your target at a crucial moment and you will have to stooge around until you can see it. The random movement is just to make it a little more difficult to know where they will be when you plan your move.
    The 1” to 4” movement is faster than they would realistically move but creates uncertainty and the possibility of cloud covering and clearing over the target in a timely manner.


    USE OF CLOUDS
    These are some thoughts I had on using clouds, pick and mix to suit your tastes and if you have any other ideas please share them so anyone can adopt them if desired.

    No one can see into, or in a cloud.
    There is no shooting in a cloud.
    There is no shooting in the first phase of movement out of a cloud. (Out is signified by the front edge of the planes base leaving the cloud.)
    Collisions are more likely in a cloud, (any part of a base overlapping a base is a collision. Not the central peg as we play it)
    There is no Immelmann Turn in a cloud.

    MOVEMENT OF PLANES IN A CLOUD.
    The diagram shows my thoughts on getting lost while flying through a cloud, the bigger the cloud and the longer you are in it, the more chance you will get lost. The dotted line simulates the variation from a straight line and the solid line is just to make it easy to calculate from the centre point of the cloud.
    Use the movement cards to determine when you exit the cloud but roll a dice to determine where you exit.
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    Small cloud A – entering on long edge with a short distance to travel before exiting on the far side. A fairly tight range of exit points.
    Note the dice indicate where you exit. 1,2 top left, 3,4 top centre. 5,6 top right, using a D6.
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    Small cloud B – entering on short edge with a long distance to travel before exiting on the far side. A fairly wide range of exit points, same as above but using a D8.
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    Large cloud C – entering on long edge with a long distance to travel before exiting on the far side. A wide range of exit points.
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    Large cloud D – entering on short edge with a very long distance to travel before exiting on the far side. A very wide range of exit points including going round in a circle.

    These are just some ideas, simplified on the basis that the plane is flying in a straight line i.e. 180’ but if it is doing various banks and side slips its planned exit point will not be 180’ from where it entered. Use the movement cards to determine where it should exits and then use the above to calculate it’s deviation from that point.

    The other alternative is, don’t get lost, and just use movement cards as designated. I would recommend this course of action for your pilot because you’re going to need all the help you can get, but not for the enemy.

    If a plane doesn’t completely enter a cloud but keeps part of its base outside the cloud then use the movement cards as normal.

    I shall use the getting lost options for the enemy but for my pilot I’ll use the movement cards as designated.

    Using the AI with clouds.
    If your plane is hidden, i.e. out of sight perhaps behind a cloud and the enemy realistically doesn’t know where it might be then use 12 o’clock and opening to give the clock face to use as specified in the opening patrol criteria. However if that’s a dumb move or you think it should be something else, go with your decision.

    If an enemy pilot sees your plane enter a cloud, he will assume you will fly in a straight line and therefore use the most likely exit point from the cloud to designate the clock face used to determine planned AI movement. Also once you have been spotted and the enemy has a realistic chance of knowing roughly where you might be then use that as the aiming point for the AI in the future.

    WINNING AND LOSING
    You win if you view all 3 targets and make it home and land alive. If you don’t - you lose.

    If you view all 3 targets and then get shot down in Enemy Territory you get a winning draw if you make it home on the Escape and Evasion Table.

    I’d like to propose a slight amendment to the FRTB rule for this scenario only. If you have seen 2 targets and have only got to check the last one to complete the mission successfully I suggest YOU decide if you will carry on or not. It’s a risk and may lead to a medal if successful or a bawling out from Uncle either way.

    OK thanks for bearing with me through all that and hopefully it’s reasonably clear but the main thing is for you to do what you think makes sense to you, adopt, exclude or amend my ideas as you wish, and as I said, any thoughts you have, please post them so that we can select the options that appeal to us as individuals.

    However if you think it’s too complicated or you just don’t fancy messing about, this is the alternative.

    THE SIMPLIFIED VERSION, 3 targets and 3 enemy plane’s, placement as above, don’t use clouds, you fly 2 Scouts, one is designated as the spotter and that plane has to view all 3 targets from within ½ a ruler and make it home as above. The other plane is your wingman and his job is just to protect you.

    Winning conditions as above, and using the Spotting plane only.

    Any questions please shout out.
    Good Hunting
    Cheers

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    Looks very interesting John. I see why you say it could be a long game. Getting lost in a cloud will cause a delay in spotting targets so it won't be easy.

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    That is a great scenario, John. Lots of randomness to keep it interesting and with just a few planes to control shouldn't make the game too long.

    The only change I would suggest to simplify things a little, is to have a single method of determining exit points irrespective of the cloud size or attitude. You could simply use 2D6 and use the clockray method to establish the exit point with 1 o'clock always being the entry point - because you can't throw a 1 on 2D6. The bell curve of 2D6 will suggest that 5-9 o'clock will be the most likely exit points but others will still be a possibility.

    Make a note of the entry point, play the manoeuvre cards as normal until your base exited the clouds edge, then throw 2D6 and reposition the plane at the appropriate cloud edge as per the dice throw.

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    Looks interesting, John.

    I will get to it in the next couple of weeks.
    Writing up Mission 1 as I type this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I’d like to propose a slight amendment to the FRTB rule for this scenario only....It’s a risk and may lead to a medal
    Uncle says: I can safely say it won't !
    Looks like an interesting challenge, John, thanks for the timely posting
    Last edited by flash; 12-06-2022 at 03:10.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Like the look of this one John - "Barking mad" you say! Whoever would think that?
    Must admit, on first seeing your graph paper grid, and before reading further, I thought you were going to make us face 8 enemy aircraft. Thank heavens I got that bit wrong
    Shall print this one off and have a thoroughly good read before commenting further, but all in all it seems straightforward enough (or should that be East to West enough) with scope for adaptation if required.
    I’ve played this scenario through 4 times and twice I got shot down easily as well as fairly quickly
    Yes, thanks for that one Now, who to send out this time I wonder?
    Laters then

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    OK John. Just two questions.
    1.Assuming that the clouds affect line of sight (peg column to peg column), both when an aircraft is in the clouds or when there is a cloud between two aircraft, is there a maximum visibility range when there are no obstacles to the line of sight or is this assumed to be the full length and breadth of your playing area?

    2. Should we assume the playing area to be two official mats joined along the long edge, or the equivalent? Or did you have a larger or smaller playing area in mind!

    Other than that, I'm going to go with your idea for the exit points from clouds and apply those to the enemy only. After all, my pilots are perfectly non geographically challenged Except they might end up leaving a cloud upside down perhaps

    As for not using an aircraft that's faster than the enemies What can one say? OK I agree to that one too

    Nice mission - thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    OK John. Just two questions.
    1.Assuming that the clouds affect line of sight (peg column to peg column), both when an aircraft is in the clouds or when there is a cloud between two aircraft, is there a maximum visibility range when there are no obstacles to the line of sight or is this assumed to be the full length and breadth of your playing area?

    2. Should we assume the playing area to be two official mats joined along the long edge, or the equivalent? Or did you have a larger or smaller playing area in mind!

    Other than that, I'm going to go with your idea for the exit points from clouds and apply those to the enemy only. After all, my pilots are perfectly non geographically challenged Except they might end up leaving a cloud upside down perhaps

    As for not using an aircraft that's faster than the enemies What can one say? OK I agree to that one too

    Nice mission - thanks.
    1 Yes full length of the board. Also don't forget once an enemy pilot has sighted your plane it will have a reasonable idea of where it is thereafter unless you decide otherwise.

    2 Yes two mats joined along their long edge as normal. Or not in your case.

    3 Except they might end up leaving a cloud upside down perhaps would that constitute an acrobatic manoeuvre such as an Immelmann which is not allowed unless you decide it should be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hu Rhu View Post
    That is a great scenario, John. Lots of randomness to keep it interesting and with just a few planes to control shouldn't make the game too long.

    The only change I would suggest to simplify things a little, is to have a single method of determining exit points irrespective of the cloud size or attitude. You could simply use 2D6 and use the clockray method to establish the exit point with 1 o'clock always being the entry point - because you can't throw a 1 on 2D6. The bell curve of 2D6 will suggest that 5-9 o'clock will be the most likely exit points but others will still be a possibility.

    Make a note of the entry point, play the manoeuvre cards as normal until your base exited the clouds edge, then throw 2D6 and reposition the plane at the appropriate cloud edge as per the dice throw.
    That's a good idea Gary, the only proviso I would suggest is that you don't do it for every cloud size. My thinking is that for the smaller clouds you are only in them for 1, 2 or 3 phases and so will probably only be off by maybe 180' in total, it's only in the big clouds that you might get completely lost. So perhaps use your 2D6 but with a maximum of 90' off the original line of flight. The other problem is that you want your enemy planes to be hunting your plane, I found on occasion they just buggered off which doesn't get the adrenaline going.

    After I'd drawn the diagrams for the 3rd time and taken the photos for the 2nd time and was posting the game I thought that some form of bell curve would be a good idea for the exit point. My revised idea wasn't quite as sophisticated as yours but I'd run out of steam and decided to leave it alone, however I'll probably use something similar to your idea which I think is a good one.
    I found that if a plane was in a cloud when I came to planning the next 3 moves things started to get a little fluid and so I expect everyone will have to make some interpretation of the game and it might change as the game progresses but I don't anticipate that will be a problem for the high calibre of Pilots we have in the campaign.

    Good thoughts though and thanks for them.
    Cheers

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    John just one question. Usually try to use altitude if I can. Is it possible to assign altitude to the clouds and likewise if low enough, the targets will be below cloud cover and therefore visible if flying low enough?
    May just be easier to not use altitude on this one and it may also need a random vertical adjustment for each cloud too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    John just one question. Usually try to use altitude if I can. Is it possible to assign altitude to the clouds and likewise if low enough, the targets will be below cloud cover and therefore visible if flying low enough?
    May just be easier to not use altitude on this one and it may also need a random vertical adjustment for each cloud too.
    Baz I believe the scenarios are to be written without altitude taken into account, however there's no reason for you not to use it in your game.

    My thinking with the clouds are to enable 1 plane to fly against 3 planes with some chance of success by hiding but also to provide a bit of fun and frustration when you arrive at the target and can't see it because it's covered by cloud. The cloud will clear but you don't know how soon.

    I'm not sure how you use altitude, there is Dave and Zoe's dog fight altitude, but there's also the rules altitude which I think is quite a different thing.

    If you're talking about climbing and diving in a dog fight situation that should work fine but you're only looking at 100's of feet so maybe you wouldn't fly below the cloud. If you do fly below the cloud, so can the enemy and they will see you.

    Perhaps you could assign a random altitude to a cloud but only after you dive down through it, maybe the cloud is so low you hit the deck.
    No I'm only joking.
    I'm more than happy for you to take from the scenario what works for you and leave the rest out, or just adjust it to suit you. I've never used this idea of clouds before so it'll be interesting to see what we can all make of it.
    Cheers

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    I'd suggest something like a cloud base of of 2 Altitude thickness ie from Alt1/0 to Alt 3/0, Baz.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ... if at the end of it you think I’m barking mad..

    We're all odd balls here, John, just some more than others !

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Well that takes care of the Table for Christmas day


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

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    Ok thanks for the altitude suggestions

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post

    We're all odd balls here, John, just some more than others !
    You've found my all time favourite character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ... you will have to stooge around ...
    I got this.

    Made an ace skill card for your pilot, John.
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    Will try to get this done today before the orderly room becomes a fridge !
    Will use John's suggested movement through cloud & adjusted Use of Cloud suggestions:
    No one can see into, in, or out of a cloud. (in or out is signified by peg location)
    There is no shooting in a cloud.
    There is no shooting in the first phase of movement out of a cloud.
    Collisions played normally
    No Immelmann Turn in a cloud.
    Cloud Alt: thickness from Alt1/0 to Alt 3/0
    Wish me luck !

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Made it back in from the cold - a fun, if fiddly, mission. I will get to the AAR as and when I can - have another game to plan this week.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    I will get to the AAR as and when I can
    Looking forward to it Dave Sounds like you should have worn your thermals for this one

    Made an ace skill card for your pilot, John.
    Nice one Chris. Mines a pint John, when you reach that bar

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    Quote Originally Posted by malachi View Post
    I got this.

    Made an ace skill card for your pilot, John.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I might need 4 recovery tokens for making my way through a cloud but 2 is probably nearer the mark for finding a bar blindfolded.

    That's a very classy ace skill card, thanks.

    Dave I hope it wasn't too cold, won't Mrs Dave let you have heating on the grounds that you'll spend too long in the shed.

    Mike I think the first rounds on you if I manage to find the bar blindfolded, although I think that's a given.

    I played this yesterday, very different to my trial games, been sorting through the photos tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ...Dave I hope it wasn't too cold, won't Mrs Dave let you have heating on the grounds that you'll spend too long in the shed.
    Self imposed, John, this energy crisis has a lot to answer for !
    But you do get the feel of January flying !

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Mike I think the first rounds on you if I manage to find the bar blindfolded, although I think that's a given
    Any time you're in the area John - would be a pleasure

    Self imposed, John, this energy crisis has a lot to answer for !
    Too right Dave - I'm freezing my nuts off just sitting in front of the computer too long during the day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    But you do get the feel of January flying !
    I'm impressed at your level of dedication to realism. I hope no one sets a game in rainy weather, I'd hate to think of you putting a sprinkler system into the shed, especially in January.

    It's cold here but very sunny and were going out for a bike ride, if I had a flying helmet and goggles it would be a good simulation for January flying, although my top speed has only being 40mph down hill, I think even a Be2c would catch me, I'd be dead meat for an Albatros.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 12-07-2022 at 02:21.



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