Three attacks by a Spitfire of Ju.88 A-1, Do.17 Z-2 and Ju.87 bombers

[monse]

In the updated WW2 Point System, (January 2021), Junkers 88 A-1 and A-4 seem to be highly underrated.

Junkers Ju.88 A-1 : 94
Junkers Ju.88 A-4 : 106
Dornier Do.17 Z-2 : 170
Dornier Do.17 Z-10 : 242
Junkers Ju.87 Stuka : 68 / 81 (updated value)
Supermarine Mk.II : 168

Both Ju.88 versions are faster than both Do.17 versions.
They have globally the same maneuvers (plus two dive bombing maneuvers for the Ju.88).
The rear arc of fire is slightly larger for the Do.17, but the gunner has to change position to use the larger arc of fire (so two turns without firing), so the larger arc of fire is not a real advantage as its extreme part will only be used in few situations.
The Do.17 have three more MG but three of them are managed by the same crew member (changing position - two turns without firing).

For a game with 170 points for each player, I would rather choose two Ju.88 A-1 (94 points each, total 188 points) than a single Do.17 Z-2 (170 points), and then decrease the resistance value of both Ju.88 A-1 :
resistance minus 5 for the first one : 5x2=10 points
resistance minus 4 for the second one : 4x2=8 points
188 - 10 - 8 = 170 points for both Ju.88, one starts with 5 damage points (resistance 21), the second starts with 4 damage points (resistance 22).
(as explained in the Point System explanation)

Two Ju.88 A-1 bombers are supposed to be more difficult to shoot down than one Do.17 Z-2, as they can protect each other by flying in box formation.

So, higher resistance, higher speed, and equal armaments (as all guns of Do.17 Z-2 can’t be operated at the same time) should lead to the conclusion that Ju.88 A-1 costs at least the same number of points than Do.17 Z-2, and Ju.88 A-4 costs much more points than Do.17 Z-2.

The three AAR presented below show the same conclusion.

A lone Spitfire facing respectively
- two Ju.88 A-1
- one Do.17 Z-2
- two Ju.87
with around 170 points for each side.

Remark : the same damage token have been drawn during the shooting phase for each game.

[monse]

JUNKERS Ju.88 A-1

Resistance : the left Ju.88 A-1 starts at 21, the right Ju.88 A-1 starts at 22 (instead of 26).
The Spitfire starts at 17.

During the game, the left Ju.88 A-1 has suffered 17 damage points and is still in flying conditions
The right Ju.88 A-1 hasn’t received any damage.
The Spitfire has been shot down.

[monse]

DORNIER Do.17 Z-2

Resistance : the Do.17 Z-2 starts at 24.
The Spitfire starts at 17.

During the game, the Do.17 Z-2 and the Spitfire have been shot down.

[monse]

JUNKERS Ju.87

Resistance : both Ju.87 start at 19.
The Spitfire starts at 17.

During the game, one Ju.87 has been shot down, the second hasn’t received any damage.
The Spitfire has suffered 12 damage points and is still in flying conditions and could have attempted to shoot down the second Ju.87.

[Teaticket]

I agree that the Ju 88 should cost similar to the Do 17. I wonder why ARES valued them as they did? If it is because the DO 17 has more mgs its not valid as you say, one crewman mans all 3 guns.

In your AAR examples, I see consecutive fire for the Gremans but no the Spitfire. Any reason for this?

[monse]

In your AAR examples, I see consecutive fire for the German but no the Spitfire. Any reason for this?

Yes you are right.
On the second picture of each AAR, the German planes should have taken an A token for aim bonus as the German was hit on first picture.
On every following phases, the Spitfire takes at least one damage point, so it looses its aim bonus.

The Multiengines don’t loose their aim bonus, unlike the single engine Ju.87 Stuka.

[hokusai]

The Multiengines don’t loose their aim bonus, unlike the single engine Ju.87 Stuka.

I play this rule, though I do not understand its rationale. Is there any explanation somewhere in some thread?

[Teaticket]

When I have several 'bombers' on the table I don't usually give them the aim bonus. I think that makes them too deadly. (only my gaming opinion)

[monse]

”The Multiengines don’t loose their aim bonus, unlike the single engine Ju.87 Stuka.”
I play this rule, though I do not understand its rationale. Is there any explanation somewhere in some thread?

I would say that a Multiengine is more stable and heavier, so its trajectory is not deviated by shots compared to a single engine.
Therefore, a multiengine shooter can keep his accuracy aiming at a target after a first shot.

[chee911sc]

To return to the previous demonstrations, adjustments of resistance from the start seem necessary to me; it is proven that at the time a Ju-88 (or a Do-17) did not resist long against a Spitfire (or a Hurricane) in combat alone. I have already noticed a very (too) high resistance attributed to WoG bombers (for example four-engined aircraft like the B-17 or the Lancaster)