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Thread: Material: HDFC vs. Full Color Nylon 12 (MJF)

  1. #1

    Default Material: HDFC vs. Full Color Nylon 12 (MJF)

    Shapeways now offers two full-color printing options: "High Definition Full Color" and "Full Color Nylon 12 (MJF)". This thread compares airplane prints in the two materials. I'll refer to them as "HDFC" and "FCN12". (Actually there are some sub-categories that depend on whether Shapeways does some post-printing spray-on coating for a few extra dollars.)

    HDFC FCN12
    Surface Quality Smooth, Satin-like Rough, Matte
    Cost¹ US$35-$45 US$12.77
    Color Precision Excellent Excellent
    Color Gamut Excellent Good
    Droopy Wings Some initial prints, but easily corrected Not a problem
    Printer Type Mimaki HP
    Shapeways Premier Feb 2022² Aug 2022
    ¹ = For one mid-sized single-seat biplane fighter.
    ² = Autumn 2021 through Etsy only; direct sales in Feb 2022
    .

    To my untrained eye, at arm's length both materials look sharp, though the HDFC model is semi-glossy and the FCN12 model is completely matte. That and the blacks are darker on HDFC. But they both look pretty good, and they're both made of robust material that is unlikely to shatter or easily deform. Seen with the naked eye, the grain on FCN12 doesn't stand out unless you hold it up close. It looks like this small-scale photo (which, depending on your monitor, is supposed to look like a plane at arm's length):
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    It's only when you get up close that the uneven surface on FCN12 stands out. And of course, the following photos -- taken with a macro lens -- accentuate that grain. Here are some comparison pictures between a green&mauve Albatros D.III (Jasta 2) and an Austro-Hungarian Hautzmayer Albatros D.III(Oef). By the way, the color on the Hautzmayer top deck is a mottled green on top of a yellow-brown, so it's supposed to look that way -- that isn't a printing artifact. Look to the stripes and markings if you want to see a solid color.


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    Last edited by ReducedAirFact; 08-22-2022 at 13:27. Reason: price

  2. #2

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    Wowzer! I can't wait to see the comparison pictures!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    Wowzer! I can't wait to see the comparison pictures!
    ^^^^^

    Could be a Game-Changer!

  4. #4

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    Perhaps color two-seaters will now become an option.
    So how many books are in your personal library?

  5. #5

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    Updated with photos above!

    Quote Originally Posted by RJG173 View Post
    Perhaps color two-seaters will now become an option.
    Yeah, I haven't gotten to the FE2b yet, but I'm hoping its price will be reasonable, and it will open up the door two more two-seaters.

  6. #6

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    I wonder if a spray over of some clear coat like we do the White Versatile Material would help smooth out the grain. But overall, I think I might pick one or two of the new material up and see how it compares on the table at the typical 3 foot distance view.

  7. #7

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    Awesome! The price certainly is great. Many more options are now accessible for the game.

    Is the one pictured Natural Full Color Nylon or Smooth Full Color Nylon, Daryl? The matte finish would be a slight improvement, I think. Will have to check these out

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by malachi View Post
    Awesome! The price certainly is great. Many more options are now accessible for the game.

    Is the one pictured Natural Full Color Nylon or Smooth Full Color Nylon, Daryl? The matte finish would be a slight improvement, I think. Will have to check these out
    The Hautzmayer sample is Natural. Now that I see the material is usable, I plan to order some more test prints. When I get them, I'll post pictures of the difference between "Natural" and "Smooth".

    Personally I like a bit of gloss on my planes, to reflect the heavy varnish that most received. (Especially British planes.) I'll also have to experiment with gloss spray-coats and see how that works.

  9. #9

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    Finished ! All of my full color planes are now available in FCN12. All of the single-seater fighters are US$12.77.

    And the R.A.F. F.E.2b came out at a very reasonable US$17.77, so, yes, reasonably-priced full-color two-seaters are possible now!

  10. #10

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    Great news Daryl. ARES will never be able to compete with the variety of planes you have available.

  11. #11

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    It would be very interesting to see the new smooth material as well. Wow!. Now I don't know where to start buying!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    The Hautzmayer sample is Natural. Now that I see the material is usable, I plan to order some more test prints. When I get them, I'll post pictures of the difference between "Natural" and "Smooth".

    Personally I like a bit of gloss on my planes, to reflect the heavy varnish that most received. (Especially British planes.) I'll also have to experiment with gloss spray-coats and see how that works.
    can you do some future pics with both production methods on the same aircraft? I think that would help.................

  13. #13

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    Looking at the two, I'm thinking a light coat of clear matt spray would make the FN12 into a smoother finish, and nearly imperceptible from the HDFC. Of course, you'd have to factor in the extra expense of the clear coat, but it couldn't be much more than a dollar a model.

    Nice work, either one.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  14. #14

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    Great news Daryl. ARES will never be able to compete with the variety of planes you have available.
    Well, I hope to supplement ARES' offerings with planes that unavailable from Ares and avoid competing directly with them. In fact I pulled a McCudden SE5a because they had released one. I worry that I might have to pull more of them in the future, as they release new planes. But with the pace of their releases, I guess I don't have to lose much sleep over that.

    can you do some future pics with both production methods on the same aircraft?
    Yeah, I'll try to add one that I already have in HDFC to my next order of FCN12.

    Looking at the two, I'm thinking a light coat of clear matt spray would make the FN12 into a smoother finish.
    I'll give that a shot too, and I'm sure we'll be seeing some photos of their "Smooth" version of FCN12.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    It would be very interesting to see the new smooth material as well. Wow!. Now I don't know where to start buying!
    One of each?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  16. #16

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    Ordered a couple of the smooth nylon 12 planes to see how they come out. Can't wait!

  17. #17

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    Ditto! I ordered a couple of the smooth nylon. If they turn out nice, more will be coming that is for sure!

  18. #18

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    Turns out that the "Smooth Nylon" has requirements that all the parts be about 50% thicker, which would not only imply a lot of work to resize things but would look kind of chunky at 1:144. (Did they not document it until recently, or did I overlook the requirements? Not sure.)

    So I'm removing it as an option on all the full-color planes. (The US$12.77 "Natural" FCN12 is unaffected.)

    Shapeways will be working with all the customers that ordered "Smooth FCN12" models, but I'm not sure whether they'll just cancel those, offer Natural FCN12 with a partial refund, or something else.

  19. #19

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    That is nice to know. Thanks for the update.

  20. #20

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    Any idea on when they will get back to us on the smooth nylon. I actually ordered a couple in that material, and I am wondering that is why my print is taking quite a while to finish.

  21. #21

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    This is a new material for Shapeways and I think they're learning what can and cannot be printed with the Smooth FCN12 material and updating their guidelines as they learn. ("Natural FCN12" is better understood.)

    I think they'll be shipping the Smooth prints that came out okay and cancelling the orders for the ones that didn't (with a refund for them).

    When you receive an order, I urge you to inspect the Smooth prints carefully and look for missing propeller blades, broken struts, etc. (That's where I would expect the Smooth prints to have problems.) Contact support@shapeways.com if there are any problems.

    I have removed Smooth FCN12 as a material option for all my planes, so this shouldn't come up again. (Natural FCN12 and the HDFC materials remain in play.)

  22. #22

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    Got my color printed FCN12 Nylon RAF FE2b from RAF. I am very impressed. The only problem I have is that the propeller blades are bent/warped. But other than that I really like it. Pictured "as is" out of the package today. I would love to see what other two seaters RAF can do with this material.

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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    Got my color printed FCN12 Nylon RAF FE2b from RAF. I am very impressed. The only problem I have is that the propeller blades are bent/warped. But other than that I really like it. Pictured "as is" out of the package today. I would love to see what other two seaters RAF can do with ..
    Not sure whether it is the photo but the blue on the Roundels looks green/turquoise?

  24. #24

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    I would say that would be from the flash.

    They have a weather blue look. Not the deep blue that some people expect.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    I would say that would be from the flash.

    They have a weather blue look. Not the deep blue that some people expect.
    The early-war RFC "VB1" blue color was medium in lightness. Later in the war they switched to VB2, which was darker and more saturated. Some details here: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-Rudder-Colors

    Thanks for sharing the photos! Hopefully those propeller blades can be straightened with a little heat. I'll have to do some more FE2b's and other two-seaters.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    I would say that would be from the flash..
    I ain't got nuthin' to do with it !

    "He is wise who watches"

  27. #27

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    LOL! So your parents named you Camera?


  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    LOL! So your parents named you Camera?

    No it's much worse than that but he never tells anyone

  29. #29

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    Two FCN12 planes just arrived and they are superb. I do not know why but I like them better than from HDFC. I will order much more planes.

  30. #30

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    As requested, here are some side-by-side shots of the same plane in the two different materials, the Brooks SPAD 13. HDFC (High-Definition Full Color), the one with more shine and richer colors, and FCN12 (Full-Color Nylon 12 MJF). The prices, which you can't see here, are $32.97 for HDFC and $12.77 for FCN12.

    Don't read too much into the colors in the photos: the colors you see will vary with the photo lighting and your monitor settings. But at least you can see the relative differences between the materials.

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  31. #31

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    Nice comparison! Thanks for the photos. The flashes really distort the representation of the material.

  32. #32

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    I'm still thinking a shot of matt clear would take all the difference out of the FNC12.

    Very nice models in either material.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  33. #33

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    Over in the sticky thread, in post #341, I posted photos of several models in FCN12 material after they've received some coats of satin spray varnish. I'm pleased with the results. The varnish brings out the color a little and gives the material a little shine, as they would have had in real life.

  34. #34

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    I got an email from SWs saying they have a 20% off sale on the FC nylon 12, through 13-OCT-22.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  35. #35

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    The photos by Chris(malachi) -- for which I'm very grateful -- give us a couple more side-by-side comparisons between the same print in different materials. (The lighting conditions are not identical.)

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    The colors are richer in the more expensive material, but the sharpness of the colors is good in both. And at arm's length they both look pretty good.

  36. #36

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    Sharpness of the colors is great on Nylon12, even better than HDCF (at least on models I have). I would not say colours are ritcher on HDFC, but they are different for sure. You can judge for yourself from these photos.
    Photos of the planes side by side in the same light condition. Nylon12 on left, HDFC on right. You can see that sharpness is better on Nylon12 planes. Both Siemens Schuckert planes has same lozeng patern on the wings, that is why I included them too. I have just these two planes in HDCF to compare.

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  37. #37

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    Comparison pics under same lighting of my Loeser Albatros D.III. In all pics the Full Color Nylon 12 is on the left and the HDFC is on the right. I'd emphasize that both models look excellent from a foot away, these are macro photos so you can see the differences.

    I'm not sure if the color differences are due to printing or if Daryl changed anything slightly? (perhaps he will chime in). The white is brighter on the HDFC and the red has a bit more orange. The white on the FCN12 is a very light gray. The underside of the HDFC is a bit more aqua color.

    I agree with Petr that the image details print with more clarity on the FCN12 (the crosses in this case). The engine details are better on the HDFC however.

    The finish on the HDFC is smoother of course.

    The radiator is offset on the FCN12 version.

    Enjoy

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  38. #38

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    Great job Chris on the comparison of the two finishes.

  39. #39

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    Great comparison photos, thanks! The colors in the models -- at least as I send them to Shapeways -- are identical, but of course each printer technology has its own color gamut and characteristics.

    After the first pass on this model was done, a period photograph of this particular plane showed it was an O.A.W.-built model, which meant an offset radiator and rounded rudder. So I changed the model to OAW-format as you see in the FCN12 material on the left. (Your original model is now rare, since it will never be printed as a standard D.III again.)

  40. #40

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    And I have been happy with my results of applying a spray of satin varnish followed by a brush on matte varnish...takes some of the grainy feel out, as well as the white haze on the FCN12.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    Great comparison photos, thanks! The colors in the models -- at least as I send them to Shapeways -- are identical, but of course each printer technology has its own color gamut and characteristics.

    After the first pass on this model was done, a period photograph of this particular plane showed it was an O.A.W.-built model, which meant an offset radiator and rounded rudder. So I changed the model to OAW-format as you see in the FCN12 material on the left. (Your original model is now rare, since it will never be printed as a standard D.III again.)
    Thanks for confirming on colors, Daryl.
    I will have to guard this rare bird carefully -- you know some of the hoarders around here will be looking to snipe it

    Quote Originally Posted by predhead View Post
    And I have been happy with my results of applying a spray of satin varnish followed by a brush on matte varnish...takes some of the grainy feel out, as well as the white haze on the FCN12.
    Nice idea, I may try that. Also a dab of acrylic wash like Nuln Oil or Agrax Earthshade on the engine I imagine would make it come to life.



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