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Thread: Real Online WoG

  1. #251

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Piaf View Post
    Ok ! Sorry, English is not my mother tongue Interesting ! Actual WW1 maneuvers, how planes actually flew, is an interesting topic.
    Understood, Luc, I realised my sense of humour had failed to translate again!
    If you like actual WW1 manoeuvres then you might like this diagram of an Immelmann turn which also shows stick & rudder bar positioning
    Click image for larger version. 

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    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #252

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Moth View Post
    The Siemens-Schuckert D.IV originally had a climb rate of 1! Sick.
    There were others with a 1 climb rate - the Pfalz Dr.1 and Morane Saulnier A1 come to mind, I'm sure there were others that have since been 'toned down' for game purposes.

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #253

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Understood, Luc, I realised my sense of humour had failed to translate again!
    If you like actual WW1 manoeuvres then you might like this diagram of an Immelmann turn which also shows stick & rudder bar positioning
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks !

    I too found this illustration. It was on a forum of Rise of flight, a nice simulation videogame. The one who posted it also mentioned a book by Horatio Barber, early British aviation pioneer and First World War flight instructor, called Aerobatics and published in 1918 (so most likely written during WW1). You can read it clicking here.

    According to Horatio Barber, "the object of the Immelman turn is to quickly effect a complete turn with gain of height. Thus, if closely pursued by another machine at the same altitude, such a turn may place the pursued in the position of the pursuer with the additional advantage of greater height." (page 50). Then he describes how to do it. Thereís a drawing of it (plate 26). It doesn't look like a modern Immelmann :

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Then he adds (p. 51) : "There are other slightly different methods, all of which may be described as immelman turns, provided (1) height is gained, (2) a complete turn is possible of accomplishment, if desired, and (3) the evolution is rapid enough."

    He also adds : "A dive may follow the completion of the Immelman turn, but it is not necessarily part of that evolution."

    Earlier in his book, he also describes two ways to do a "half-roll" (p. 48-49) that looks very much like a modern Split-S if I am not mistaken. Here is a drawing of it (plate 22) :

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I donít know anything about WWI aerobatics. So I canít affirm anything. I don't know whether or not Horatio Barber can be trustworthy. But given this book, at the moment, I can't exclude the possibility of two maneuvers during WWI that allowed to complete turns, one with gain, the other with loss of height, even if the WWI Immelmann looked more like a vertical reverse with gain of height than a modern Immelmann :

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (here is a vertical reverse without gain of height)

    All this may need more research.
    Last edited by Le Piaf; 03-14-2023 at 22:38.

  4. #254

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    We need a Fokker D.IX with that climb rate. And 12.7 table speed!

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    There were others with a 1 climb rate - the Pfalz Dr.1 and Morane Saulnier A1 come to mind, I'm sure there were others that have since been 'toned down' for game purposes.

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