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Thread: AUTOMATIC MOVEMENT RULE ISSUE

  1. #1

    Default AUTOMATIC MOVEMENT RULE ISSUE

    I have practised a lot automatic movement for solo games since the pandemic situation and I have noticed that the automatic movement rules contains an issue.
    (it is the same rule in the WOG WW1 2012 Rules & Accessories page 38 and in the WOW Flight of the Giants page 19 rulebooks).

    Multi-Engine Bombers :
    "For each multi-engine bomber randomly flown remove the following cards : the climb, the dive, one stall, one turn to the left and one turn to the right. ../.. Only the eight maneuver cards are used : 3 straights, 1 stall and 2 turns to each side. ../.. Each time the discard pile contains 1 turn to the right and 1 turn to the left, shuffle them back to the maneuver deck with any straights and stall …".

    The pictures below show Multi-engines using 4 different maneuver decks XA (Zeppelin Staaken), XB (Handley-Page O/400), XC (Felixstowe F2A), XD (Gotha G.V / Caproni Ca.3)
    Pretending the cards are randomly chosen but choosing them in the case the order or the maneuver cards make the plane exit the game surface :
    Even when starting in the middle of the length (49 cm from a side) of a playing mat (length 98 cm), each plane may leave the mat or be on the edge before shuffling back 1 turn to the right and 1 turn to the left.
    About the Zeppelin and the Handley-Page, a new turn to the left (after the shuffling back) makes them exit the mat.

    Moreover, the game is usually played in the length of the mat (enemy sides facing each other in the length of the mat), so with more chances to leave the playing surface than on the pictures, even if the bomber starts at the middle of the width of the mat (68/2 = 34 cm).






    Suggestion : now, I personally use only 1 turn to the right and 1 turn to the left and keep all the other maneuver cards in automatic mode and remove all other turns card. But I keep every sideslips if playing with 2 seaters.
    I shuffle all the cards when they are all played.

    Actually, in automatic mode, the Multiengine / two seaters mission is to cross the length of 1 or 2 mats, making small evasive maneuvers (designated by the 1 turn to the right and 1 turn to the left).

    I informed Andrea Angiolino about the automatic rule issue and suggested my proposal. Here is his answer :
    “One solution could be shifting everything sideway so that the bomber is still on the table. Using one curve per side is also a possible solution, even if it makes the movement of the bomber quite more obvious.”
    Actually, his first suggestion means that the shifting sideway could be permanent during all the game and this leads to a loss of precision for all the planes shifted.
    I definitely prefer to keep one turn per side.

    This issue is also valid for the WW2 version.

  2. #2

    Default

    Until I created my own solo charts I played with one turn each way for auto flying as I found two turns could take the bomber way off course, let alone off table. That's where I learned that you had to be the I in AI sometimes to prevent stupid happening.

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #3

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    My usual way of dealing with this is to simpy insert an inboard turn if the aircraft is nearing the edge of the mat.

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  4. #4

    Default

    Hmmm...

    Thoughts:

    All cards used at the start, or as long as the bomber is in the "middle" of the play area (not likely to go off the table in three maneuvers).

    Any time the flight path is 45 degrees or more from the intended target/departure point (DP), remove two turn cards that might turn the bomber further away from the DP. I.E.: If the bomber is heading 45 degrees left of the DP, remove a left turn. This still allows a left turn, but not likely. Unpredictability?

    Any time the flight path is 90 degrees or more from the DP, remove all turn cards that might turn the bomber further away from the DP. Also, if the bomber is within three maneuvers of the edge of the play area, do not allow selection of maneuvers that will take the bomber off the play area (so, if the bomber is heading to the side edge, don't allow straights, or only as many as will keep the bomber on the play area).

    A smarter person could come up with a formula, but the above should keep the bomber on the play area, and allow a bit of unpredictability? Really, once a plane gets near an edge, the moves are going to be more predictable as options diminish. Scrolling might help, if possible (re-centering the planes on the play area). There shouldn't be a map edge in the sky.

    Also, there is an objective out there somewhere, that the bomber is heading for, and it should always be maneuvering towards that. Even with random movement, card options should always restrict going further away. The longer a bomber is in the play area, the more likely it is going to be shot down.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    My usual way of dealing with this is to simpy insert an inboard turn if the aircraft is nearing the edge of the mat.

    Rob.
    That's also my approach.
    I usually insert the turn well before the border, simulating a reasonnably skilled pilot/navigator. In some scenarios I let an unskilled/wounded crew oscillate till the border, or even do without correction and declare the plane lost.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Any time the flight path is 45 degrees or more from the intended target/departure point (DP), remove two turn cards that might turn the bomber further away from the DP. I.E.: If the bomber is heading 45 degrees left of the DP, remove a left turn. This still allows a left turn, but not likely. Unpredictability?

    Any time the flight path is 90 degrees or more from the DP, remove all turn cards that might turn the bomber further away from the DP. Also, if the bomber is within three maneuvers of the edge of the play area, do not allow selection of maneuvers that will take the bomber off the play area (so, if the bomber is heading to the side edge, don't allow straights, or only as many as will keep the bomber on the play area).
    I like these ideas.

    We don't usually have too much trouble with automatic movement planes going off the edge of the mats. Although as Simon has demonstrated it is possible.

    If a plane gets close to the edge, we usually just turn it parallel to the side so that it can keep flying. This is a bit like removing turn cards that would take it off the edge, like you suggested.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windy Jack View Post
    ..If a plane gets close to the , we usually just turn it parallel to the side so that it can keep flying..
    Thus being the I in AI ! It's the simplest solution

    "He is wise who watches"

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Thus being the I in AI ! It's the simplest solution
    Careful Dave, that sounds awfully like common sense.....

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  9. #9

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    Trigger warning: statistics ahead ;-)

    I have programmed an app that tracks the absolute position of a plane on the table.
    The app simulates bomber runs with different strategies and counts how many times the plane exits the table from which side.
    I have done some WGS decks, will do some WGF, as well.

    The statistic is based on 10000 runs per strategy on a table sized 98x136 cm (2 standard mats). The planes start at the middle of the left edge (at coordinate 0/49cm) and head towards the right edge.

    I have simulated 3 strategies:
    'official' : as explained in the BoB rule booklet
    'keep1turn': as official but remove all but 1 turn left/right from the deck
    'simple': no discard pile, immediately reshuffle the current card in the deck

    In all strategies dive, climb, reversal card are removed. The speed is selected randomly. When a critical card is drawn that follows a critical card, it is replaced by a straight.


    Results
    --------

    The official strategy lead the planes to the right edge with a probability of 50-60%.
    Keeping only 1 turn increases the probablity to 70-90%
    Not unexpectedly the simple random strategy performs very poorly.

    -------------------------------------------
    XD (Lancaster)

    Strategy - right - left - top - bottom
    --------------------------------------------
    official : 54% 0% 23% 23%
    keep1turn: 84% 0% 8% 8%
    simple : 31% 1% 34% 34%
    -------------------------------------------


    -------------------------------------------
    XC (B17)

    Strategy - right - left - top - bottom
    --------------------------------------------
    official : 80% 0% 10% 10%
    keep1turn: 100% 0% 0% 0%
    simple : 44% 0% 28% 28%
    -------------------------------------------
    A very stable deck, even with 'simple' almost
    half of the runs reach the right edge


    -------------------------------------------
    U (Do 17)

    Strategy - right - left - top - bottom
    --------------------------------------------
    official : 62% 0% 19% 19%
    keep1turn: 90% 0% 5% 5%
    simple: 30% 1% 35% 35%
    -------------------------------------------


    -------------------------------------------
    M (Beaufighter)

    Strategy - right - left - top - bottom
    --------------------------------------------
    official : 50% 0% 25% 25%
    keep1turn: 78% 0% 11% 11%
    simple : 27% 1% 36% 36%
    -------------------------------------------


    -------------------------------------------
    I (Aichi Val)

    Strategy - right - left - top - bottom
    --------------------------------------------
    official : 36% 0% 32% 32%
    keep1turn: 64% 0% 18% 18%
    simple: 15% 13% 36% 36%
    -------------------------------------------
    The 45 degrees turns are real killers.
    'simple' causes almost as many right as left exits.


    Sorry for the formatting, no idea how to do a proper table

  10. #10

    Default

    Very interesting, Fabrizio.
    Your scientific approach proves that the empiric method to show the official rule issue is correct.
    Rep.



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