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Thread: European Master or World Tournament?

  1. #1

    Question European Master or World Tournament?

    Situation on WoG battlefield is developing well: there are new models announced for release in close future (even this year), all major gatherings survived COVID years 2020 & 2021 and there are even new ideas about our game (travel version as an attachment to the boardgaming magazine in Italy). And there is also a new event in Rome called European Master simply because there was an opportunity play according to Andrea's simplified rules for tournaments.

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    And the bigger tournament system is something I want to discuss with you. The very first idea about cooperation between Prague - Rome - Doncaster (hope it doesn't sound much like Axis) and the head of cooperation (at least between Prague and Rome) is Francesco Berucci from FIW (Federazione Italiana Wargame). We discussed the rules and system before Wings of Prague 2022 and there was a mutual agreement we would test the simplified rules in Prague and share the knowledge with Rome organizers.

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    There were several conditions we share across all three groups (or at least I hope we share them):
    • Tournament rules must be fair to all players (no explosions, no damage cards, no D.VII vs. DH2 etc.).
    • It should not be a dogfight only.
    • It should be comparable in the same conditons.
    • It must be fun, no unhealthy rivalry.

    So far so good: it worked twice and I believe it would work even for the third time in Doncaster (simply because organizers, players and atmosphere there is such good).

    I created something like "Online" Rankings that will be updated after Doncater round.

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    I guess we want to move this forward, so there few things I want to discuss with you (and we will share it with Francesco, the only one who is not present here).
    1. Are there any other gaming groups around the world who want to participate? The minimum number of players is 8, so I can imagine it could be easy to join.
    2. How difficult is seems to you as an organizers? Does any sense to play such tournament during Origins or other conventions?
    3. Should we even rank the pilots? Isn't it maybe too much like Magic the Gathering or other competitive games?
    4. How to count points for players who would attend more of the events? Average of their results, maximum, the later result?
    5. Right now games are limited to late war minis, what about a thematical year set of allowed planes (Fokker Scourge, Bloody April etc.)?
    6. Personally I don't see as necessary to have big rewards. I can imagine (for example) using not awarded Knights of the Air world wide campaign medals here on the side or a special banner for winner as signature (or a gold star on the one that already exists?) Just small things, not a real WWI balloon with helium gas.

    Please, use the numbers from the list, share your ideas with others and let's try to develop something we can share across the world.

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  2. #2

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    No explosion, no damage cards - what's the point of playing.
    So how many books are in your personal library?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJG173 View Post
    No explosion, no damage cards - what's the point of playing.
    There are damage cards; just not all those in the usual packs of damage cards.
    We've tried the simplified rules a couple of times, and still had enjoyable games.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJG173 View Post
    No explosion, no damage cards - what's the point of playing.
    Robert - I always knew you were a pyromaniac

  5. #5

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    Written in the Simplified Rules, sections Match Rules (pages 2 & 3).

    Andrea set rules really basic, just first 10 pages of RAP. Not for everyday/everyweek/everymonth playing (I miss 0 damage and gun jam chance), but for tournament purpouse once a year it worked well (played 8 missions in total). I am not skeptical anymore.
    Last edited by Dan-Sam; 06-14-2022 at 05:48.

  6. #6

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    We had a lot of fun playing with those rules Saturday morning in Prague. I like the number of planes you can choose of. So it's possible to fly with the scouts and twoseaters you prefer with a compromise of hitpoints and maneuverability you prefer the best.

    I would not be to hasty with changing the title. Europen Master sounds cool. (like the Ryder Cup) Lets wait for the Doncaster results.

    Should we even rank the pilots? Isn't it maybe too much like Magic the Gathering or other competitive games?

    A ranking you posted after Prague Summer Con should be enough.

    How to count points for players who would attend more of the events? Average of their results, maximum, the later result?

    If it possible to organize it each year, ther can be ranking of the year. Best result counts. The lower result in brackets or other colours.

    Right now games are limited to late war minis, what about a thematical year set of allowed planes (Fokker Scourge, Bloody April etc.)?

    Coul be interesting, but I enjoyed the mid/late war planes with the better variety of maneuvers.

    Personally I don't see as necessary to have big rewards. I can imagine (for example) using not awarded Knights of the Air world wide campaign medals here on the side or a special banner for winner as signature (or a gold star on the one that already exists?) Just small things, not a real WWI balloon with helium gas.

    Roger that.

    Virtual medal would be cool with. Blank for participants. Additional bronze/silver/gold star for 3rd, 2nd and 1st rank.
    Voilā le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  7. #7

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    I almost missed your post, Sven

    Thank you for your perspective, leading Ace

    There was an interesting part to analyze which mini I should use for me and wide range of possible planes made it special.

    Also appreciate the easy organization of it (easier than Ace of Aces I guess and much easier than any campaign in Prague) - that allowed me to join event during Prague event when I was organizing it. I'm sure Chris (or another officer in charge) would run it easy.

    The only doubts I have are about crucial role of bombers. When your team miss two targets you can bet you're out of the top. If your team bombs two or all three you're on a really good way.

    Still thinking about if this could turn into a mini worlwide campaign

  8. #8

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    How many games do you play in this tournament? How long are these games? Right now at Origins we play one large game to determine a winner.

  9. #9

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    There 2 dogfights (~1 hour each) and 2 bombing missions (~1.5 hour each).

    The bombing mission can be pressed a little - we finished both in 2 hours in Prague (2 tables, 8 planes each). Longer times are valid for Rome (12 planes on the table).

    The tournament is designed by Andrea from 8 to 12 players now (and multiples of these numbers).

  10. #10

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    So everyone plays in 2 or 4 missions?

  11. #11

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    Everyone plays all 4:

    • 2 dogfights - individual points based on your personal score,
    • 2 bombing missions on both sides (as a defender and an attacker also) - the same points for whole team.

  12. #12

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    So it basically takes 6-7 hours to complete the tournament? Our 3 hour scout battle is all we've ever done at Origins as far as I know. I really like the idea bit not sure how many would commit to a several game tournament. Would have to be hard core Wings lovers!

  13. #13

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    I guess about 5 hours in total - there are no serious preparations, no (special) damage cards and no resurrection. These can speed up the whole session a lot.

    I was also thinking if this format fits into Origins with tokens, time slots and or her things you need to keep in mind in Columbus. Honestly, can't tell.

    Edit: I checked Prague timetable and we did it in 5 hours including an hour break for lunch.

  14. #14

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    I'll definitely keep an eye on this and think about how to fit it to Origins.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    There 2 dogfights (~1 hour each) and 2 bombing missions (~1.5 hour each)...
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    So it basically takes 6-7 hours to complete the tournament? Our 3 hour scout battle is all we've ever done at Origins as far as I know. I really like the idea bit not sure how many would commit to a several game tournament. Would have to be hard core Wings lovers!
    Sounds similar to the Flight Club format which takes us the day to play (using mostly usual rules). We're obviously Wings lovers, it's tiring but fun. Not sure I'd want it to become a tournament though.

    "He is wise who watches"

  16. #16

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I'll definitely keep an eye on this and think about how to fit it to Origins.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Sounds similar to the Flight Club format which takes us the day to play (using mostly usual rules). We're obviously Wings lovers, it's tiring but fun. Not sure I'd want it to become a tournament though.
    Do you have any interesting experience, Dave? Suggestions? It could be interesting to see it from your perspective.

  17. #17

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    Not tournaments, not my thing at all but we're closing on the sixth Flight Club - next Sunday - and format is very much the same.
    The 1 hour dogfights are very popular, the longer scenarios can be difficult to balance as we try different things with different planes. Usually bombing, though it has to be said most are rubbish at bombing even following detailed explanation and diagrams, though we have tried ground attack & recon too.
    Set up & takedown takes time as well as keeping all players fed, watered & drained, so whilst the actual expected game time is five hours, or thereabouts, the rest can make it up to quite a bit more than that so is something for committed players.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ntoyment-Poole

    "He is wise who watches"

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    ..........so is something for committed players.
    Or players who would benefit from being Committed (to an Institution!)
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Or players who would benefit from being Committed (to an Institution!)
    Sounds like a lot of us.
    Last edited by Teaticket; 06-20-2022 at 12:21.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Sounds loike a lot of us.
    I resemble that remark..

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Or players who would benefit from being Committed (to an Institution!)
    Is that like becoming a National Treasure Tim?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #22

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    I thought Tim's WoW collection is UK National Treasure...

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    I thought Tim's WoW collection is UK National Treasure...
    OI!

    It's not the Nation's...
    It's MINE!

    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  24. #24

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    Is there like a panoramic picture of it?

  25. #25

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    Sadly, no...
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  26. #26

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    Sadly no one has come up with a lens having a sufficient depth of field unless you can hire the Hubble telescope!

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  27. #27

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    Imagine how it would be just...unpack them! Days and days...

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Sadly no one has come up with a lens having a sufficient depth of field unless you can hire the Hubble telescope!

    Rob.


    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    Imagine how it would be just...unpack them! Days and days...
    I don't know - I've never tried to unpack them all

    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  30. #30

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    Come on Tim, SHOW US THE LOOT !!!!!!
    Get us a picture of the mountain of aeronautical joy....

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    Come on Tim, SHOW US THE LOOT !!!!!!
    Get us a picture of the mountain of aeronautical joy....

  32. #32

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    I assume there is another layer underneath!

  33. #33

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    Hrrrrrrrumph!

    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!



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