Camel, Fokker Dr.I, SE5a
Camel, SE5a, Fokker Dr.I
SE5a, Camel, Fokker Dr.I
SE5a, Fokker Dr.I, Camel
Fokker Dr.I, Camel, SE5a
Fokker Dr.I, SE5a, Camel
Camel, Fokker Dr.I, SE5a
If you had a choice to WoG dogfight with either Camel, Fokker Dr.I or SE5a, in which order would you grab them? Please just mind their decks, not that you would choose SE5a because it has a sexy side view or because you always play for Germans.
I want to know how much you care about asymmetry, steep turns and so.
Last edited by Honza; 05-22-2022 at 00:22.
Voted.
I don't want to list my reasons, in case they unduly influence anyone else's decisions.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
That's wise Tim. I picked the secret results option.
When they'll be revelaed?
June 6th.
Voted, and I will repect the secret polling, until D-day.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Are we using Basic Rules?
Can the SE.5a use Higher Machine Gun?
Basic rules Luke.
A tough one Honza but fair........
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
Didn't see this before so didn't vote but I think I might have gone with Camel, SE5a, Fokker Dr.I.
The C deck is fast, has minimal steeps & has 3 x 90deg right turns. The N deck is fastest, has sharp turns and wide sideslips each way but they are steep and make life a lot harder if you pick up a wound. The D deck is the slowest, has a couple of extra steeps in the wide sideslips but 2 x right 90deg right turns are not. The Dr1 is also the weakest of the three.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
I voted SE5a, Camel, Fokker Dr.1
The speed of the SE5a is the clincher - you can outrun any enemy if you are in trouble, or can chase down any enemy if they are teetering on the brink!
The extra damage point is better than the Camel, and THREE better than the Dr.1.
The wide sideslips and single 90 degree turn each way give better manoeuvrability than the other two planes; just hope for no pilot wounds as Flash said!
<< note to self - find new deity to pray to @ "Flight Club" meetings! - pilot wound in almost every game!>>
The Dr.1 is the worst of the three - too slow to escape it's enemies, too slow to catch many enemies, too few damage points (should have more than the Camel, as explained/proven on a different thread) and no sharp turn to the Left.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
I hadn't seen this till now. Would agree with Dave and chosen Camel, SE5a, Dr1. I usually seem to get wounded early when flying a SE5a, turning in into a frustrating plane to fly when you can't shoot on your fancy maneuvers.
The damage points were not to be taken into account.
I voted Dr.I, SE5, Camel.
SE5 becomes a complete trash bin when you get wounded pilot. But till then ...
Camel is sexy but dull and the third 90 is just for show.
DR.I is slow, but turns tight, has better selection of maneuvers than Camel. Speed is not always what you want.
Just my two cents.
Last edited by Honza; 07-07-2022 at 07:09.
The first plane I ever flew in Wings of War was the Sopwith Snipe. From there, I built a Sopwith Camel and a Fokker Dr.1 from paper, as I couldn't find any minis at the time (other than eVilBay for more than I wanted to pay). I did eventually get an SE5a, but it doesn't get out of the box much. Of all the fighter/scout planes in WWI, the SE5a is the tractor of the air. The polar opposite of the aerodynamic Albatros D.III/V.
Despite a fast, maneuverable deck, the SE5a is the last pick in almost any situation. Yeah, that's strictly an appearance preference.
In this poll (no, I didn't find this in time to vote), I would have gone with Sopwith Camel, Dr.1, and SE5a. Fighting the Dr.1, the Camel has to keep on the left of the target, and use distance/speed occasionally to get out of the firing arc of the Dr.1. Most times, IMHO, it comes down to the luck of the damage draw as to who wins. Unless you are playing against Andy [Nightbomber], in which case it doesn't matter what plane you are going to lose in.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
You voted Fokker D.VII didn’t you Tim.. 1st, 2nd and 3rd, lolOriginally Posted by Flying Helmut
Never Knowingly Undergunned !!
No rear gunner on any of them so struggled to chose...
Never Knowingly Undergunned !!
Dr. I > Camel > SE.5a
The Dr. I's Right Turn dominates the SE.5a's and conditionally dominates the Camel's; its Left Turn dominates the Camel's and conditionally dominates the SE.5a's.
The Camel's Right Turn dominates the SE.5a's; its Left Turn conditionally dominates the SE.5a's.
The SE.5's Left Turn conditionally dominates the Camel's and the Dr. I's.
Last edited by Killer Moth; 07-19-2022 at 15:58.
SE5a > Camel > Dr.I
I voted months ago, but call me crazy... I'll take the speed and maneuverability of the SE5a any day and take my chances on getting wounded, in which case I'm in a SPAD XIII. Those 2 extra damage points of the Camel make me favor it over the Dr.I but only slightly.
I think that it's generous to distinguish the SE.5a as "maneuverable," within this context. In that department, its only advantage is its Left Turn, and, because it's Steep, that's only on a conditional basis. Its Immelmann Turn is almost certainly its best tactic versus the Camel/Dr. I.
However, in my opinion, even if we're using Basic Rules, Higher Machine Gun should apply. I think that that facet is just as basic as acknowledging that the SE.5a's 90-degree Turns are Steep. For those that don't recall, HMG allows one to fire upon an overlapping plane, within its arcs, if it hasn't performed a Steep Manuever within that phase.
Last edited by Killer Moth; 07-16-2022 at 08:37.
I don't, but as I said, call me crazy. The SE5a is among the choices for a reason imo. Steep maneuvers are more of a limiting factor than they are a disadvantage and 90* turns plus extra wide sideslips in each direction seem plenty maneuverable to me. Add in the +3 damage points and nearly twice the speed over the Dr.I and I'm happy with my choice. Of course, the damage decks are the great equalizer!
I admit that I had forgotten about the Wide Slides, for both the Dr. I and the SE.5a. I may reconsider...
I like the SE5a but it's not my top pick. Speed can be a disadvantage when in close quarter fighting in my opinion.
That's the whole point - DON'T DO IT!
Use your superior speed to deny the enemy any use of his superior manoeuvrability!
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Imma use the Dr. I all the time when we get to play online. I'll show you all what's up.
Challenge accepted if it's 1 v 1 and a large space. We can schedule for 2027 when they have the SE5a on the app.
Shoot! I forgot that that's not a choice, yet! Hopefully the next couple will be that plus the Fokker E.V.
I'm looking at you, Tim!
Imma use the Dr. I all the time when we get to play online. I'll show you all what's up.
Can't think why - I don't "do" Apps....I'm looking at you, Tim!
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
How convenient…
IMO, the more planes on the table, the more value that speed has. It allows you to double team, avoid getting double teamed, and regroup. I’d argue that the same applies to Wide Slides.
Explain, please
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Wide slides is what i always want. High speed is not what i always want. I see the main use for high speed when you are chasing aircraft on the way out, after a bad immelmann, or when you are joining in after a resurrection.
I challenged you to honorable combat in the skies—and you got cold feet. Kidding. That stinks that you won't be joining us, though!Explain, please
When, exactly?
I have never indicated any enthusiasm whatsoever for any on-line version of "Wings", on any of the various threads over the last several years, and I certainly never accepted any challenge and then changed my mind (the Dictionary Definition of getting "cold feet").
"Kidding" or not, I'm not impressed.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Well, from now on, I won't kid with you anymore. In the context of me kidding, though, my use of the term was not wrong. I'm not going to discuss it any further.
Last edited by Killer Moth; 07-19-2022 at 15:48.
Bad example -
A team player, uniformed and on the bench, has given tacit agreement to play, but then changed his mind, hence the "cold feet".
I gave no such tacit agreement to use a "Wings" App, and then experience a change of mind/heart.
So my definition is, in fact, correct, and you need a better Dictionary.
Still not impressed.
"Wingman" status withdrawn.
Last edited by Flying Helmut; 07-20-2022 at 02:14.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Oops, a wrong thread.
Based on your reply, I fear that I can't keep my promise to not kid with you, or about you. Blocked.
Interesting anecdote about SE5a turning from Gerald Gibbs' book "Survivor's Story":
We were all taught that a good steady climbing turn would put you in a winning position against another fighter, but personally I did nothing of the sort. As soon as the inevitable circling around any enemy fighter began in order to get one's fixed forward-firing guns to bear, I would tighten the turn as much as possible. A little top rudder would then cause a stall, and the SE5a would do the first half turn of a spin in the same direction as the circling opponent, and cut across it. Stick forward would straighten her up and stick right back would sit her momentarily on her tail and I would get in a quick squirt upwards at the enemy fighter as it came past. Then, of course, a sort of tail slide or similar chaos would follow, and if I hadn't hit him hard, something violent was indicated to stop him getting me from above.
I've seen a documentary about the last fight of Werner Voss, and he would do some sort of a short, flat Immelmann with his Dr.I, where his tail just rotated 180° around.
EDIT: They call it a flat spin. Voss would fly a prototype Dr.I marked as F.I, him, MvR and von Tutchek received from Fokker. Apparently nobody else did that on Dr.I, so it definitely nothing that would be a part of a standard Dr.I arsenal.
Last edited by Honza; 07-21-2022 at 01:00.
At lastI can put a face to a name. Nice to see you Honza.
I had been insecure about my appearance, but then i got the blue swimming suit.
Wingman status lost for making silly fun.
The first two pre-production triplanes were designated F.I, the aircraft, serials 101/17, 102/17 and 103/17, were the only machines to receive the F.I. designation the latter pair went to Jasta 10 & 11 on 28th August 1917 for evaluation in combat.
MvR used F.I 102/17 in September 1917, scoring his 60th victory in the aircraft on the 7th of that month. Kurt Wolff was shot down in F.I 102/17 on 15 September 1917. Voss was famously shot down while flying F.I 103/17 on the 23rd. F.I 101/17 had been tested to destruction in August 1918, failing a load test.
von Tutschek was with Jasta 12 & was severely wounded on 11th August so he would not have received an F.I as only two were used in combat and both were lost.
The flat spin Voss made use of may have been down to his exceptional skill as a pilot rather than something anybody could do and maybe he didn't get to pass the knowledge on.
Last edited by flash; 07-21-2022 at 04:32.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Thanks Dave for the input.
Even on Hard mode, the Camel falls for my Left Turn trap without fail!
4CA14662-0494-4DF7-8ADB-AA131CC896A8.jpg
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