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Thread: BYM Mission 5 – Only if you really help - 5th Nov 1916 by teaticket

  1. #1

    Default BYM Mission 5 – Only if you really help - 5th Nov 1916 by teaticket

    BYM Mission 5 – Only if you really help - 5th Nov 1916 by teaticket

    This will be a simple encounter to save a 2 seaters from another squadron that is having trouble getting home. It had just been attacked and the observer is wounded and has engine damage. Worse, there is debris jamming the rudder so it can only fly in circles! (for the engine damage, it does not count towards the two engine damage hits to make it crash, only that it has to stall every turn.)

    Friendly forces:
    One 2-seater flying in a circle with 4 points of damage including engine damage and a wounded observer. (wounded observer can only shoot at targets in close range inflicting long range damage)
    3 scouts to rescue the wounded tandem.

    Enemy forces:
    3 scouts.

    Setup:
    Use a surface the size of 2 ARES mats. Your scouts are positioned from the center of the gaming surface with your friendly edge the far edge directly behind you. Both mats are considered enemy territory.

    Starting positions:
    Friendly planes are positioned centered on the nearest edge.
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    If you wish you can randomly choose the direction of the tandem's turn and the starting location edges of the enemy, keeping the enemy coming in from opposite sides.


    Special rule for the tandem, it starts with debris stuck in it’s rudder. To clear it, your pilot comes up with a cunning plan to shake it loose by colliding with the tandem. This controlled collision must be from the rear quarter shown in the photo below. You are trying to tap the rudder with the end of your wingtip.
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    Any damage done in the collision will be halved, no special damage. The Boom will be half the starting value, rounding up if starting with an odd strength, halved again.
    If the collision is done from the correct direction the debris is shaken loose and the tandem can now fly normal. The debris is not totally cleared though and any following rudder damage to the tandem will cause the tandem to again fly in a circle until another friendly collision clears it. A second rudder ‘repair’ will totally clear the debris.

    If the collision is outside of the direction arc shown in the photo, full damage is taken and the debris is only shaken loose if there is a special damage symbol on the card the tandem takes.

    The tandem will fly the following sequence when it has a jammed rudder, stall, turn, stall, turn…… repeat until cleared. (all turns in the same direction)

    Good luck!!!

    Objective is to get the tandem across your friendly edge of the board.
    Victory points,
    6 points for tandem exiting friendly edge or downing the tandem.
    4 for downing enemy scout
    2 scout FRTB

    If you don't like this mission blame Paul! I had planned a night mission as it is the 5th of November. I will post my original mission on Decmeber 1st for anyone looking to fly on our fortnight month.
    Last edited by Teaticket; 11-02-2021 at 11:37.

  2. #2

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    Based on responses to my night mission, your mission might be a case of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. I had a suspicion I should have done a reprise of the Ace vs Ace, The Hunter in the Skies, scenario from the original OTT campaign.

    Controlled collision

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Based on responses to my night mission, your mission might be a case of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. I had a suspicion I should have done a reprise of the Ace vs Ace, The Hunter in the Skies, scenario from the original OTT campaign.

    Controlled collision
    I had fun with your mission Paul. Writing it up today. I avoid reading other AARs till I've done mine so don't know what has happened.

    For mission 5, I figured as being over enemy territory I'd let our tandem crews off the hook and use a fill in tandem. You can ignore the rescue attempt and hope to make up the 6 points in cleaning out the enemy scouts but what fun is that. Having to do something against instinct I thought would be a good challenge. Controlled collision.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I had fun with your mission Paul. Writing it up today. I avoid reading other AARs till I've done mine so don't know what has happened.

    For mission 5, I figured as being over enemy territory I'd let our tandem crews off the hook and use a fill in tandem. You can ignore the rescue attempt and hope to make up the 6 points in cleaning out the enemy scouts but what fun is that. Having to do something against instinct I thought would be a good challenge. Controlled collision.
    With night fighting I think there's a fair bit of luck whether or not planes get much of a chance to fire on an opposing plane. Scouts vs big bomber will likely see more shots than scout vs scout. Depending on the luck, the latter can end up without much happening and therefore a bit of chore to do the extra gaming admin. Looking forward to your AAR and also to playing mission 5. Collisions-R-Us!

  5. #5

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    My specialty is uncontrolled collisions but I'll give this a whirl

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by malachi View Post
    My specialty is uncontrolled collisions but I'll give this a whirl
    I hoped you would like this one but it was not designed just for you.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I hoped you would like this one but it was not designed just for you.
    Yeah! He made it for Chris and I since we are both so good at colliding into people!!!! LOL!!!

  8. #8

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    One question - does the normal definition of a collision apply (i.e., the centre peg of one plane is overlapped by the base of the other other)? The photo showing the arc of approach doesn't have any base overlap any peg, but I assume that's because it's just meant to show the angle of approach.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    One question - does the normal definition of a collision apply (i.e., the centre peg of one plane is overlapped by the base of the other other)? The photo showing the arc of approach doesn't have any base overlap any peg, but I assume that's because it's just meant to show the angle of approach.
    Normal peg over base for the collision. The photo with the bases is just to show the facing arc for it to have a (more) successful chance.

  10. #10

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    Nice one Peter, 'scuse the delay, been tied to the paintbrush by Aunty !

    "He is wise who watches"

  11. #11

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    Questions Peter -
    Has the gunner just been wounded and is down for the first turn (or longer ?), or, is he up and ready for action ?
    Can we take it that in addition to the limits set on the gunner that he'll have 4 move gun jams & cannot fire after steep or Immelmann involved moves ?

    "He is wise who watches"

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Questions Peter -
    Has the gunner just been wounded and is down for the first turn (or longer ?), or, is he up and ready for action ?
    Can we take it that in addition to the limits set on the gunner that he'll have 4 move gun jams & cannot fire after steep or Immelmann involved moves ?
    As there are no enemy currently near enough to have just shot the observer he is up and ready. As per the Wounded Observer rules, he now takes 4 gun jam counters and cannot fire on steeps, Split S, Immelmann and climb maneuvers. A second wound knocks him out of the action but not necissarily killing him.
    Additionally on any maneuver that there is a collision he cannot shoot.(as well as the scout in the collision)
    Last edited by Teaticket; 11-03-2021 at 08:15.

  13. #13

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    Ta !

    "He is wise who watches"

  14. #14

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    This is just Machiavellian.

    My lads were all geared up for another night mission, they performed so well in the last one that they'll be sad to miss out.

    Collisions are no problem for them at all, we do it all the time.

    Controlled collisions might be a tad too far for them though. It sounds "Interesting "

  15. #15

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    Oh nice one Peter , a scenario where its a bonus to collide


    Bit behind on the AARS at the moment but promise to give Wings my full attention after I have fitted a kitchen to our new house.
    SWMBO has spoken and i must obey.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Oh nice one Peter , a scenario where its a bonus to collide


    Bit behind on the AARS at the moment but promise to give Wings my full attention after I have fitted a kitchen to our new house.
    SWMBO has spoken and i must obey.
    I'm sure many of us have experienced SWMBO directives. I have a bit of catching up myself from said directives.

  17. #17

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    Not sure when I will get this game played. Two weeks ago we got a Shiba Inu puppy - very smart, active...and independently minded. As the working from home dog-parent, it's consuming most of my free time.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Not sure when I will get this game played. Two weeks ago we got a Shiba Inu puppy - very smart, active...and independently minded. As the working from home dog-parent, it's consuming most of my free time.
    Priorities, priorities you need to train your dog to lay quietly across your feet to keep them warm and take you for a walk only once a day.

    Besides that, this was a typical Teaticket scenario, not one to rush into. His last one, out of 6 of my men who took to the skies 5 came back with bullets in them.
    I played this one 2 days ago. 6 scouts in the sky and a defective Tandem, all the scouts were either shotdown or forced to return to base. I don't know if it's a complete disaster yet because I haven't rolled the dice for the CandW, but I'm not hopefull.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Priorities, priorities you need to train your dog to lay quietly across your feet to keep them warm and take you for a walk only once a day.

    Besides that, this was a typical Teaticket scenario, not one to rush into. His last one, out of 6 of my men who took to the skies 5 came back with bullets in them.
    I played this one 2 days ago. 6 scouts in the sky and a defective Tandem, all the scouts were either shotdown or forced to return to base. I don't know if it's a complete disaster yet because I haven't rolled the dice for the CandW, but I'm not hopefull.
    Laying quietly at my feet while I play a game is precisely the 'end-state', but 'training' to get there is currently what's taking the time.

    sorry to hear about your bullet-ridden pilots.

  20. #20

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    I played my game today. I wasn't sure I wanted to play with altitude - (1) with these earlier planes altitude it doesn't matter a lot unless planes start at different altitudes or the scenario involves something like landing/take-off and (2) you pretty much want to be at the same altitude as the two-seater to get the maximum shooting opportunities. I played without altitude but kept track of the climb counters which produced something to consider in this scenario. If playing with altitude and the overlapping planes if they don't both have climb counters or both have climb counters there's no collision. It's very easy for one of the friendly scouts to have performed an Immelmann maneuver and gained a climb counter. That will make it even more difficult for that scout to execute the 'controlled' collision in the scenario as it will have a climb counter while the two-seater does not. The only way to lose that counter is a dive, which is also lose a level of altitude - requiring 4 or 5 turns to climb back up to the two-seater's altitude - or to perform a split-S to lose a counter. That all seems pretty complicated. Perhaps for this scenario - given it's a controlled collision - the planes only have to be at the same altitude and ignore the climb counters.

  21. #21

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    Also, I think I'm interpreting the 'boom' card damage for a controlled collision correction - halved and halved again, rounding up each time based on full damage for an airplane. So, a plane with 13 damage would suffer 4 points (half of 13 = 6.5 rounded up to 7; half of 7 = 3.5 rounded up to 4).

    Yes, I did get a 'boom' card on a controlled collision.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    ... If playing with altitude and the overlapping planes if they don't both have climb counters or both have climb counters there's no collision..
    That's wrong. When at the same altitude they collide if they both have climb counters (no matter how many), or, they both have no climb counters.
    Your point is valid though. There are options - play the Immel as starting and finishing on the same level - as in WW1, not the modern half loop the game is based on. Allow height control. Use other altitude rules. I do all three of those, the tandem just had to live long enough for me to try it !

    "He is wise who watches"

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    That's wrong. When at the same altitude they collide if they both have climb counters (no matter how many), or, they both have no climb counters.
    Your point is valid though. There are options - play the Immel as starting and finishing on the same level - as in WW1, not the modern half loop the game is based on. Allow height control. Use other altitude rules. I do all three of those, the tandem just had to live long enough for me to try it !
    What I meant but not what I wrote. Thanks for pointing that out. Good suggestions for the altitude problem.

  24. #24

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    If using altitude, I don't see it as a problem. Just start the plane you are flying at the same altitude as the tandem? Don't have it change altitude until it is free to maneuver. And yes, you did the rounding up for a Boom correctly.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    If using altitude, I don't see it as a problem. Just start the plane you are flying at the same altitude as the tandem? Don't have it change altitude until it is free to maneuver. And yes, you did the rounding up for a Boom correctly.
    Thanks for verifying the 'boom' damage.

    WRT the altitude - the rule says that there's a collision if at the same altitude and BOTH have no climb counters or BOTH have climb counters (no matter how many). If at the same altitude and one has no climb counters while the other does, there's no collision. Fine - start them at the same altitude and don't play a climb card. HOWEVER, if a plane executes an Immelmann it gains a climb counter - and sometimes an Immelmann is the sensible maneuver (e.g., to avoid flying off the mat). That means that the friendly scouts have to avoid doing an Immelmann - putting them at a disadvantage (fine if you're playing Albatros DII vs an Allied 'B' shooter but horrible in reverse). Getting rid of the counter via a dive or split S is even worse as the plane will drop one whole level will need 4 or 5 turns to get back up to the 2-seater's altitude.

    So, I did start all planes at the same altitude, but, as it turned out, all scouts ended up doing an Immelmann turn and gaining the pesky climb counter that, in this case, FORBIDS a collision. Meh! I think Dave's suggestions are reasonable - the Immelmann ends up without a climb counter or the plane can subsequently voluntarily lose it through a gradual descent. I suppose one can have the 2-seater climb instead of a stall to gain a counter, then all's okay.

    It's just a case of the rules not being designed for the scenario's requirement. The rules, as written, suppose planes are trying to avoid colliding versus trying to collide.

    Best solution - don't play altitude.

  26. #26

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    In the Solo Campaign rules it does say to design scenarios without altitude in mind. I very rarely mention altitude in my submitted missions and didn't in this one. Some missions are enhanced by using altitude while others, like this one, are not the best using it. It's up to individuals to choose their own poison!

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    In the Solo Campaign rules it does say to design scenarios without altitude in mind. I very rarely mention altitude in my submitted missions and didn't in this one. Some missions are enhanced by using altitude while others, like this one, are not the best using it. It's up to individuals to choose their own poison!
    No worries, Peter. I just wanted to raise it because...

    1) I played the game with altitude - mostly to discipline myself with record keeping for the climb counters. I'm terrible at this. I tried using the Aerodrome dials but often forgot of the dials got moved. I tried putting counters on the boards for the planes but kept forgetting to check. So now I'm trying to put all the counters on the game mat next to the planes.

    2) I realized this scenario would be better with everyone at the same altitude, so I started all planes at the same altitude.

    3) I completely forgot about that rules that there's a collision only if both planes are without or both are with climb counters. As it turns out the ONLY collision where this was NOT the case was the 2-seater (no climb counters) and the ramming friendly scout (one climb counter). But I forgot and played it as if there was a controlled collision.

    4) Other than that altitude made no difference what so ever - one plane came within one counter of gaining an altitude level.

    5) But, as I mentioned, I only realized after the game, the only collision where playing altitude made a difference was the controlled collision. Nullifying the controlled collision after the game would really nullify the entire game. Not wanting to re-play the game, I posted here looking for some after the fact rationalizations of why the 'controlled collision' was indeed a collision - other than saying I decided not to play altitude after the game was over. LoL

    I'm just being up front about it. I'll put it in my AAR as a mistake made during game play but I will write it up with the 'controlled collision' did happen. However, if the ruling is that - no, you played with altitude and the rules say 'no collision', so there was no 'controlled collision'. That's okay too.

  28. #28

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    Hi, I randomly rolled for altitude as always, but ensured the 2seater had at least 1climb counter and was same altitude as chasing (colliding) aircraft. The chaser started at 1 climb counter ( random roll) and needed 6 to gain a level so had at least 4 Immelmanns to gain a Climb counter before an extra altitude level was gained.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    No worries, Peter. I just wanted to raise it because...

    1) I played the game with altitude - mostly to discipline myself with record keeping for the climb counters. I'm terrible at this. I tried using the Aerodrome dials but often forgot of the dials got moved. I tried putting counters on the boards for the planes but kept forgetting to check. So now I'm trying to put all the counters on the game mat next to the planes.

    2) I realized this scenario would be better with everyone at the same altitude, so I started all planes at the same altitude.

    3) I completely forgot about that rules that there's a collision only if both planes are without or both are with climb counters. As it turns out the ONLY collision where this was NOT the case was the 2-seater (no climb counters) and the ramming friendly scout (one climb counter). But I forgot and played it as if there was a controlled collision.

    4) Other than that altitude made no difference what so ever - one plane came within one counter of gaining an altitude level.

    5) But, as I mentioned, I only realized after the game, the only collision where playing altitude made a difference was the controlled collision. Nullifying the controlled collision after the game would really nullify the entire game. Not wanting to re-play the game, I posted here looking for some after the fact rationalizations of why the 'controlled collision' was indeed a collision - other than saying I decided not to play altitude after the game was over. LoL

    I'm just being up front about it. I'll put it in my AAR as a mistake made during game play but I will write it up with the 'controlled collision' did happen. However, if the ruling is that - no, you played with altitude and the rules say 'no collision', so there was no 'controlled collision'. That's okay too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Hi, I randomly rolled for altitude as always, but ensured the 2seater had at least 1climb counter and was same altitude as chasing (colliding) aircraft. The chaser started at 1 climb counter ( random roll) and needed 6 to gain a level so had at least 4 Immelmanns to gain a Climb counter before an extra altitude level was gained.
    Barrie's solution is the best for playing this one with altitude. Give the tandem a climb counter or two. More often than not your scouts will have some so that should make it easier to have the chance to fix the tandem's problem.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Hi, I randomly rolled for altitude as always, but ensured the 2seater had at least 1climb counter and was same altitude as chasing (colliding) aircraft. The chaser started at 1 climb counter ( random roll) and needed 6 to gain a level so had at least 4 Immelmanns to gain a Climb counter before an extra altitude level was gained.
    A good solution, Barrie. I have to admit I've never started planes with climb counters, but I see no reason why not.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Barrie's solution is the best for playing this one with altitude. Give the tandem a climb counter or two. More often than not your scouts will have some so that should make it easier to have the chance to fix the tandem's problem.
    I'm finding altitude isn't making much difference to the game for the slower climbing planes. It was different when I did the late 1917 / early 1918 Italian Front variation of the DYM campaign. I had one game where ceiling altitude was a factor. So, I've been meaning to give the alternate flight rules (dog-fighting in a bubble) a go at some point in this campaign but I have to get much better at keeping track of things first.



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