Sopwith Pup?

**KirkH** · 10-30-2021 14:16

Has the Sopwith Pup ever been introduced to this game? It was a common WWI aircraft but I can't seem to find any reference to it when it comes to Wings of War/Glory. Thanks.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 10-30-2021 14:30

Have a look in some of the AARs Kirk. Pups have been flown there on a number of occasions. If you type Sopwith Pup in the Advanced search box, it will give you 500 references.

Rob.

**flash** · 10-30-2021 14:35

Originally Posted by KirkH

Has the Sopwith Pup ever been introduced to this game? It was a common WWI aircraft but I can't seem to find any reference to it when it comes to Wings of War/Glory. Thanks.

No, it hasn't officially, Kirk, hence no references. It only equipped four RNAS and three RFC squadrons so maybe not that common but deserving of a place if ever released by Ares. They are about though, from other sources.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ainting-thread

**KirkH** · 10-30-2021 14:49

Thanks for the input. I just ordered some Valom 1/144 Pup kits and I'd like to use them in WoG but I don't know what the performance numbers are. Can someone provide which maneuver deck to use as well as the damage number? The Pup had only a single gun so it would fire with the B deck. Thanks again for the help.

**RJG173** · 10-30-2021 14:52

12 damage points and a D maneuver deck, based on the wiki Wings of Linen (well worth bookmarking).

**KirkH** · 10-30-2021 15:28

Wow, that's an awesome site. Thanks for providing it. You've already answered my next question which was going to be about the WoG ratings for a number of other aircraft not produced for the game. Wings of Linen has pretty much everything. Thanks again.

**OldGuy59** · 10-30-2021 21:30

And there are User Created Cards available around the Forum, too.

Link: Guntruck's Entente Aircraft Cards - 46 Sqn Sopwith Pup Card (One of many cards by Steve [Guntruck])

Link: OldGuy59's WWI Entente Fighter Album - Sopwith Pup Custom Plane Card

**KirkH** · 10-30-2021 21:52

I saw the ones at Wings of Linen. Are the links you posted to different ones? My goal is to find cards for the two I'll be building, which are the two in the Valom kit. Thanks again for your guys help.

**OldGuy59** · 10-30-2021 23:25

Originally Posted by KirkH

I saw the ones at Wings of Linen. Are the links you posted to different ones? My goal is to find cards for the two I'll be building, which are the two in the Valom kit. Thanks again for your guys help.

It looks like Steve [Guntruck] has posted his Wings of Glory style cards on that site. I have a couple Wings of War examples in my album, but custom made for personal paint jobs done by Forum members. There could be more in the Official Sopwith Pup Painting thread (Link: Official Sopwith Pup Painting thread).

And if you PM the right person, you might get a custom card for your planes, when done, too.

PS: There are four different paint schemes on the Valom Sopwith Pup box? Possibly not the RNAS nor the Japanese versions, though?

**flash** · 10-31-2021 01:53

Originally Posted by KirkH

Thanks for the input. I just ordered some Valom 1/144 Pup kits and I'd like to use them in WoG but I don't know what the performance numbers are. Can someone provide which maneuver deck to use as well as the damage number? The Pup had only a single gun so it would fire with the B deck. Thanks again for the help.

Some of us now use the D* deck, Kirk - one of the sharp right turns is replaced with a sharp left turn which provides the Pup with better manoeuvrability that's thought to better represent it's ability.
I tested it out - check out these links - the second has a deck.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...nd-s-Part-Deux
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...Stats-!!/page2

**greenalfonzo** · 10-31-2021 06:08

Well, 4 RNAS and 3 RFC squadrons at its "peak use," according to wiki, but it was used by a further 20 squadrons (and numerous other countries) at various times. 1,700 were produced, and it was in front line service for a full year. Compare this to the tripe, used by 6 RNAS squadrons for 6ish months, with only 140 produced.

**flash** · 10-31-2021 07:27

Peak use being front line service - it went on to serve with home defence, training squadrons & training establishments thereafter.

**OldGuy59** · 10-31-2021 09:37

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**KirkH** · 10-31-2021 09:51

Beautiful looking cards. Why is the damage rating A though? Most Pups had only one gun so I'd think they'd be B's. If these cards represent up-gunned versions, are there any adverse maneuverability impacts? I know when I play up-gunned versions of planes (such as the three gun Fok EIV) I have house rules to reduce their maneuvering capabilities. There was a reason WWI planes didn't carry more armament than they did.

**OldGuy59** · 10-31-2021 09:56

Originally Posted by KirkH

Beautiful looking cards. Why is the damage rating A though? Most Pups had only one gun so I'd think they'd be B's. If these cards represent up-gunned versions, are there any adverse maneuverability impacts? I know when I play up-gunned versions of planes (such as the three gun Fok EIV) I have house rules to reduce their maneuvering capabilities. There was a reason WWI planes didn't carry more armament than they did.

Yeah. I use Forum members for proofreading, as I continually miss little things on the templates. Thanks.

**KirkH** · 10-31-2021 10:03

Ah, OK. Typo. got it. Been there.
Would you be able to answer a question about the Wings of Linen Wiki? I looked at the SE-5 page and it confused me. It says the SE-5 uses a maneuver deck of B, but the card links show maneuver deck N (same as the SE-5a). I just bought the Bishop SE-5 and it has a maneuver deck of Fr.

**OldGuy59** · 10-31-2021 10:57

Originally Posted by KirkH

Ah, OK. Typo. got it. Been there.
Would you be able to answer a question about the Wings of Linen Wiki? I looked at the SE-5 page and it confused me. It says the SE-5 uses a maneuver deck of B, but the card links show maneuver deck N (same as the SE-5a). I just bought the Bishop SE-5 and it has a maneuver deck of Fr.

Wings of War, the predecessor game, was the first release of the SE5a. That game had a limited number of decks, so compromises were made. IIRC, there wasn't an official SE5 release. Along came Ares, who released Wings of Glory, and although it took a while, and an interim re-print release (where either planned or because of a typo, the maneuver deck changed), we had the latest release of the SE5 in two versions.

While Ares took a few years to release the SE5 series, there were players that did up cards for unofficial planes, as well as custom repaints. Over the years, unofficial stats have been used, and the card creators may not have gone back and amended their cards. I know I haven't gone back and 'Officialized' my older cards. So, the two I did this morning are now showing a 'D*" maneuver deck. I know that if/when Ares releases the Sopwith Pup, all my unofficial cards wil be 'wrong'.

**Dawn Patrol** · 10-31-2021 12:57

Originally Posted by greenalfonzo

Well, 4 RNAS and 3 RFC squadrons at its "peak use," according to wiki, but it was used by a further 20 squadrons (and numerous other countries) at various times. 1,700 were produced, and it was in front line service for a full year. Compare this to the tripe, used by 6 RNAS squadrons for 6ish months, with only 140 produced.

The Pup is one of the higher production run fighters missing from the game. From the game balance standpoint, the rather rare Sopwith Triplane was perhaps the better inclusion, since it is probably the best of the one-gun fighters available in the same time frame to face Albatros D.II/III. 1700 Pups probably matches the entire German fighter production across all models in the same period, and this is before production on both sides really ramped up.