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Thread: Pfalz D12 dive advantage

  1. #1


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    Alexander
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    Default Pfalz D12 dive advantage

    Good day all,
    recently I've become obsessed with the Pfalz D.XII, the overshadowed stable mate of the Fokker D.VII, and I was reading a report by Rudolf Stark (see below) describing the aircraft as difficult to fly and how anybody would kick up a fuss when they had to fly it. However he also mentions that (like most Pfalz aircraft) it was an excellent high speed diver in fact it could dive faster then the Fokker, and I thought what if: we removed the of the normal dive card of the Q deck (as far as I gather this is the Pfalz's deck) and replace it with a dive similar to the A or N deck and this would give it that extra bonus of speed over the Fokker D.VII.


    No one wanted to fly those Pfalzs except under compulsion, and those who had to made as much fuss as they could about practicing on them.
    Later their pilots got on very well with them. They flew quite decently and could always keep pace with the Fokkers; in fact they dived even faster. But they were heavy for turns and fighting purposes, in which respect they were not to be compared with the Fokkers. The Fokker was a bloodstock animal that answered to the slightest movement of the hand and could almost guess the rider's will in advance. The Pfalz was a clumsy cart-horse that went heavy in the reins and obeyed nothing but the most brutal force.

    Your thoughts?
    Regards Alex

  2. #2

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    Sounds interesting. Diving is one of the game's 'fly in the ointment' sort of thing as all planes dive the same. It would be interesting to be able to differentiate all the planes different diving abilities or handicaps.

  3. #3

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    I am always open to tweaks of the original rules.

  4. #4

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    I love those colorful Pfalz D.XIIs! The longer "A" deck dive card seems fine to me, although
    1) I don't know how the Pfalz D.XII compared to the SPAD X.III or SE5a in a dive, and
    2) I'm not sure it would make much difference in game play unlike some of the turn additions/deletions for other planes
    Last edited by malachi; 08-27-2021 at 07:42.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    ..Diving is one of the game's 'fly in the ointment' sort of thing as all planes dive the same....
    Peter's not wrong there Alex. It's quite a can of worms when you look into it.
    Most planes should go faster when they dive than they do straight and level. There are also number of recognised 'good' divers as well as the Pfalz D.XII, should they all be adjusted this way - in which case what deck do the SPAD XIII & SE5a use ?! If it's a good diver, is it because it gets to lower altitude faster than others ? In which case should it not have a shorter dive card rather than a longer one ? Bit like the Phoenix D.I has in the X deck.
    Perhaps what's needed is a max dive rate for all aircraft in altitude levels and climb counters removed per dive card.

    "He is wise who watches"

  6. #6

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    It is food for thought.It seems to me in the context of a still-early developing realm of technology that a "good" diver is one that doesn't exceed the airframe's structural limits in a power dive-witness the complaints of pilots of various nationalities about the Nieuport N.28, the Albatros D-III & -V, the Fokker Dr-I, etc.

    Some hose rule about handling an overdive might be in order, though-some small risk of cracking up for most planes, no risk at all for things like the Pfalz D-types & SPADs, but an increased risk for others like those mentioned above.
    Last edited by zenlizard; 08-28-2021 at 08:26.

  7. #7


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    I like that idea Sam the Over Dive seems to be the only "twekable" part of the diving rules, plus when it comes to the albatros fighters it's actually quite fitting, seeing as pilots were discouraged to fly the fighters in a sustained/prolonged dive and one could consider the Over Dive exactly that.

    So, if we were to simulate risk for the planes that you stated how about 2 A damage cards for bad divers and 1 A damage card for normal divers and we only count damage points and explosion cards?

    Just one more thing if anybody is interested in using a more radical approach it might be interesting to look at some House rules on altitude that David Kuijt inthe files section.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by VieuxCharles View Post

    So, if we were to simulate risk for the planes that you stated how about 2 A damage cards for bad divers and 1 A damage card for normal divers and we only count damage points and explosion cards?
    I seldom over-dive anyway. With such a rule I suspect... I would not over-dive at all. Even trying to put out the fire would be almost as harmful as letting it burn.
    Could make sense with alternative altitude rules with quicker climb/dive moves.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by VieuxCharles View Post
    ..So, if we were to simulate risk for the planes that you stated how about 2 A damage cards for bad divers and 1 A damage card for normal divers and we only count damage points and explosion cards?...
    Quote Originally Posted by hokusai View Post
    I seldom over-dive anyway. With such a rule I suspect... I would not over-dive at all...
    Me either, it sounds excessive.
    Maybe toning it down a bit could help - something like 1 A damage card for bad divers and selecting the lowest of 2 A damage card for normal divers, Good divers having no risk of damage.

    "He is wise who watches"

  10. #10

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    this is one of the things i love about this game! the open ended rules allow for an endless varion of house rules!

  11. #11

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    I'd probably allow all planes their normal dive, with "poor" divers pulling a 'B' card on their first overdive card, then an 'A' card on their second consecutive overdive card; "normal" divers will be one card better, "good" divers 2 cards better...

    So, a Pfalz D.XII would take no damage with the dive card, no damage with the first overdive "straight", no damage with the 2nd overdive "straight", a 'B' card on the 3rd consecutive overdive "straight" (that's FOUR levels down in a single overdive sequence!).
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!



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