Fighters with the most kills comparison

**tikkifriend** · 06-23-2021 13:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=096MlNLGyLw
Never thought the P38 got that many, thought they only shot down Yamaoto then retired

**gully_raker** · 06-23-2021 17:13

Interesting but seemed rather selective particularly when it came to "Aces"!
I noted the SE 5a did not feature & I bet it had more "Kills" that Spad XIII.

**Naharaht** · 06-23-2021 19:41

Thank you for sharing that video, Paul. It seems that the quality of the opposition played a large part in scoring those numbers.

**Boreas** · 06-23-2021 19:53

Interesting - but internally inconsistent figures are quoted.
Look at the Sabre vs MiG numbers for instance.

**Baxter** · 06-23-2021 20:16

Hmmm this topic made me think of planes that killed the most people. That would be the Camel and it killed more entente trainees than Germans I am thinking. Might be wrong.

**gully_raker** · 06-24-2021 02:37

Originally Posted by Baxter

Hmmm this topic made me think of planes that killed the most people. That would be the Camel and it killed more entente trainees than Germans I am thinking. Might be wrong.

I think it was about Even Gary. The Camel certainly killed a lot of its pilots.
I saw the figures once on the Aerodrome Historical Forum but cant remember the exact figures.

**Flying Helmut** · 06-24-2021 02:48

With the rampant over-claiming by Front Line pilots, the number of machines actually destroyed, and crew killed, was certainly higher in training than in combat as far as the Camel was concerned.

**hokusai** · 06-24-2021 02:52

Originally Posted by gully_raker

I think it was about Even Gary. The Camel certainly killed a lot of its pilots.
I saw the figures once on the Aerodrome Historical Forum but cant remember the exact figures.

James Hamilton-Patterson in "Marked for Death" writes:

They were by far the most difficult of service machines to handle. Many pilots killed themselves by crashing in a right-hand spin when they were learning to fly them. A Camel hated an inexperienced hand, and flopped into a frantic spin at the least opportunity. They were unlike ordinary aeroplanes, being quite unstable, immoderately tail-heavy, so light on the controls that the slightest jerk or inaccuracy would hurl them all over the sky, difficult to land, deadly to crash: a list of vices to emasculate the stoutest courage, and the first flight on a Camel was always a terrible ordeal. They were bringing out a two-seater training Camel for dual work, in the hope of reducing that thirty percent of crashes on first solo flights (quoted from Yeates, V. M., Winged Victory)

...

The Camel is credited with being the top-scoring fighter of any side in the war, with 1,294 victories. On the other hand it killed 350 trainee pilots, or more than one non-combat death for every four enemy aircraft downed (but not necessarily with a fatality): a high price to pay.

**Kustenjaeger** · 06-24-2021 02:55

Originally Posted by gully_raker

I think it was about Even Gary. The Camel certainly killed a lot of its pilots.
I saw the figures once on the Aerodrome Historical Forum but cant remember the exact figures.

The figures I have seen (just from googling so cannot confirm accuracy) are 385 Camel pilots killed in accidents, 413 in combat (but some of these could have involved losing control) and ~1294 victories claimed using Camels.

Edward

**Flying Helmut** · 06-24-2021 02:57

How 'bout that?

Still, over-claiming will have probably brought the ratio down to around 2:1

**camel crew** · 06-24-2021 05:52

Originally Posted by Baxter

Hmmm this topic made me think of planes that killed the most people. That would be the Camel and it killed more entente trainees than Germans I am thinking. Might be wrong.

Hello Gary. Was thinking this the other day, so I checked. Not quite but bloody close comes to mind. Think it's about 410+ against 380 ish in favour of the Germans. Can't remember exact figures

**tikkifriend** · 06-24-2021 06:38

Well that sparked off a more interesting thread than the video did

**Diamondback** · 06-24-2021 14:19

Most of the P-38's victories were two units IIRC; Riddle's Raiders, the 479th FG, in the ETO and the 49th FG (Bong's outfit) in the Southwest Pacific. The P-38 was another "Europe didn't want" castoff that MacArthur took any assets he could get and his people found a way to wring the most out of them they could and MacGyver fixes and improvements.

Telling that when George Kenney was sent to replace Brett in Australia, his first move was to call a P-38 pilot he'd just been chewing out that morning and tell him "tell the boys to pack their bags and planes, I'm going to Australia and you're coming with me."

**gully_raker** · 06-25-2021 18:32

Further to my post above I got a figure for the SE5/5a from the Aerodrome Historical Forum which gave the SE's a total of 2710 kills of which 1597 were "Destroyed" with the balance Out of Control.
The Camel clamed 3243 in total.
I am darned sure the Spad XIII would have had many more than the 252 he listed.