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Thread: couple of questions

  1. #1

    Default couple of questions

    Been re reading a couple of "Biggles" books - flying around in his Camel, winning the War single handed the Fokker D.VII gets mentioned but not much else on it.

    Question 1: Would the Camel have been a worthy opponet of the D.VII or would it have been outclassed?

    Siemens Shuckert D.III compared to the Fokker D.VII

    Question 2: Both these planes entered combat early 1918. Were they comparable? Did one have better characteristics than the other? Oopps that was 3 questions!!!

    Love to hear your views

  2. #2

    Default

    Ooooh, lots of different permutations here.

    OK, I'll have a lash...

    1) Depends where the fight took place.

    At medium - high altitude, the Fokker D.VII was superior. Even the Pfalz D.III is recorded as being faster than the Camel at "combat altitudes". Rotary engines all suffered from the effects of the thinner air at altitude - the water-cooled in-line engines were not affected nearly as much.

    The different engines in the D.VII need to be taken into account.
    The more common Mercedes D.IIIAu 160hp would produce the comparison above; but with the 185hp BMW 'overcompressed' engine the D.VII F was even faster (at high altitudes even faster than the SPAD XIII) but at low altitudes running the engine at full power, or selecting the 'overcompressed' performance, actually caused problems with overheating and fuel flow and could damage the plant, so pilots were instructed not to do so.

    By mid/late 1918, Camel squadrons were generally assigned to low level work, ground support etc, where their manoeuvrability was key.
    Faster, less manoeuvrable planes like the SE5a, Dolphin and Bristol F2b worked medium and high altitudes.

    At all altitudes, no aircraft could match the ability of the D.VII to "hang on its prop" (the short steep turns and short straight with no steep icon).
    The Camel could use the torque of its rotary engine to snap turn quickly to the right, probably tighter than the D.VII, but this was the manoeuvre which killed so many pilots in training by initiating a spin (more than were lost in combat in Camels); in a left turn the Camel would have been outclassed.

    It should be noted that the Camel's replacement, the Snipe, was starting to appear, and a ground-support specialist, the Salamander, was just on the horizon. The Allies were almost ready to withdraw/replace the Camel.

    The Fokker D.VII, of course, was the only aircraft specifically named in the Treaty of Versailles as having to be handed over to the Allies completely, every last one.
    That speaks volumes in itself.


    2) Again, specific types of usage call for different planes.

    Overall, the Fokker D.VII was better, but the Siemens-Schuckert had a couple of deployment advantages.

    The Siemens-Halske Sh.III power plant, like all rotaries, could be fired up from cold, so the Siemens could rapidly be sent up to intercept enemy aircraft.
    The Mercedes and BMW in-line engines on the D.VII needed to be 'run up' to the correct temperature before flight was attempted, so response time was slower.
    Also the Siemens had a phenomenal climb rate, so could rapidly ascend to meet Allied raids, making it an ideal interceptor.

    The Siemens-Schuckert arrived at the Front first, and pilots were enthusiastic about its performance (compared to the Albatros D.Va, Pfalz D.IIIa and Fokker Dr.1) - Rudolf Berthold thought it was "the answer" and was keen to receive more of them (of course, he hadn't met the Fokker D.VII yet!).
    However, the engines suffered repeated piston failures, partly due to poor quality erzatz Castor oil lubrication, and partly to overheating.
    The problem rapidly escalated, and the Siemens planes were all withdrawn from the Front for re-engining, not returning for months. Their pilots reverted to using the "inferior" Albatros, Pfalz and triplane trio.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  3. #3

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    In British post war evaluation the Mercedes D.IIIaü demonstrated 200hp according to British standards, the German standard had it at 180. Mostly internal developments of the internals of the original 160 version & updated carburation. Bit of a 'Merlin' of it's time.

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

  5. #5

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    Very nicely done on the replay.



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