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Thread: New North Carolina recruit!

  1. #1

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    Default New North Carolina recruit!

    New pilot from Mooresville, North Carolina reporting for duty!

    Hi! So I am new to this game and Aerodrome. I had played X-Wing for years but for some reason Wings of Glory escaped my notice. Not anymore! I couldn’t find the base set anywhere in the US but managed to get it ordered from Australia. I don’t have the game yet, so naturally I have already acquired a bunch of planes. 😉 17 in fact. Seems like a good start. Along with a custom mat from Deepcut Studio.

    Looking forward to getting in some games!

    Cheers!

  2. #2

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    Welcome, Mike! You're diving in the deep end, well done Great crowd here and much to learn, and the game is a lot of fun.

  3. #3

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    Welcome to the 'Drome, Mike!

    Glad to see you got your avatar sorted.

    Excellent beginning, 17 planes; you'll find that's plenty for a day or so, then you'll be wanting more - nothing unusual in that!

    If you have any questions, fire away!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  4. #4

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    Welcome. It seems like you have already made a serious investment in the game.
    So how many books are in your personal library?

  5. #5

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    Welcome from snowy Colorado, Mike!

    I see you are starting fast with 17 planes right out of the gate and a mat from Deepcut. Well played. The Deepcut aerial mat is excellent! As someone who just joined this mad house a year ago, I can't recommend enough that you dig around in the files section of this forum. There are some real gems in terms of aircraft comparisons, console ideas, some solo play stuff.
    Last edited by Von Scharf; 03-19-2021 at 14:56.

  6. #6

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome Mike. Looks like a good start.

  7. #7

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Scharf View Post
    Welcome from snow Colorado, Mike!

    I see you are starting fast with 17 planes right out of the gate and a mat from Deepcut. Well played. The Deepcut aerial mat is excellent! As someone who just joined this mad house a year ago, I can't recommend enough that you dig around in the files section of this forum. There are some real gems in terms of aircraft comparisons, console ideas, some solo play stuff.
    Yes, the mat looks awesome! What is the consensus regarding the best mat size?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Throxx View Post
    Yes, the mat looks awesome! What is the consensus regarding the best mat size?
    All depends on what table space you have. For running games at a convention with ~12 planes I like 4' x 6'. At home I use the ARES mats which are 26 5/8" x 38 5/8" each. I use 2 at a time so roughly 3 feet by 4 1/2 feet.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Throxx View Post
    Yes, the mat looks awesome! What is the consensus regarding the best mat size?
    I love the 4 ft x 6 ft DeepCut Studio Aerial Fields mat. It's a BIG mat, but if your game table can hold it... you can always just start your planes as close together as you wish and put your cards/console right on the mat. The current Wings of Glory mats are a good size for joining between 2 and 4 of them together. That offers a lot of variety with City, Countryside, NoMans Land, Coast, etc. The only one that is hard to find is the NoMans mat, but Ares says they are doing a reprint of that one soon.

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    Thanks! I plan on dragging a friend into this game and was wondering which match-ups should be the most even. Should I just use the point system I have found here and try to stay within 5 points or so?

    And regarding that, what is up with the two-seaters seeming to be kings of the air. I mean the Airco DH4 is rated higher than the Fokker D.VII? Or the Hannover CL.IIIa being rated higher than any allied scout except for the Snipe? I don't recall the allies confiscating the Hannover like they did the D.VII at the end of the war.

    Keep in mind that I have yet to actually play the game.

  12. #12

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    Hello Mike and welcome to the game. Deepcut mats are good value. I have the Verdun one and also the clouds and fields one. You can download some rules from the Ares website but without cockpits, damage cards or rulers it is probably best to wait for your parcel. If you ordered from Evan at rivalsky he is very good and totally trustworthy.

    So many resources are available to enable you to play the game. A suggestion is to download wog solo from playstore, That is an easy to use app for WWI solo play. Wog2_ai is the WWII version. There is also a brilliant database of all our planes that has been created by one of our members. http://www.hoho.cz/app/wog/

    We also have WOG mates in our files section, and if you have that then you need never worry about not having the right manoeuvre cards.

  13. #13

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    2 seaters are nasty. You can't usually sneak up on it from behind without getting shot at. Some Entente 2 seaters like the DH4 are fast, have double machine guns in the back, front or both! Bristol Fighter, Hannover and Halberstadt CL.II can Immelmann too. That makes them very tough to deal with.

  14. #14

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    Welcome aboard, your story sounds very familiar .....

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  16. #16

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    Welcome to the 'Drome' Mike from over the pond in the good old UK. Fly safe and remember to always watch your six.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Throxx View Post
    Thanks! I plan on dragging a friend into this game and was wondering which match-ups should be the most even. Should I just use the point system I have found here and try to stay within 5 points or so?

    And regarding that, what is up with the two-seaters seeming to be kings of the air. I mean the Airco DH4 is rated higher than the Fokker D.VII? Or the Hannover CL.IIIa being rated higher than any allied scout except for the Snipe? I don't recall the allies confiscating the Hannover like they did the D.VII at the end of the war.

    Keep in mind that I have yet to actually play the game.
    How you approach game balance is entirely a personal choice.

    When starting out, as a relatively inexperienced Wings pilot, the points system may well prove helpful and reassuring.
    Later, with more experience and a deeper understanding of the structure of the points system and the nuances of gameplay, I think the points system would prove less useful.
    With the addition of altitude rules, the points system loses even more relevance.

    Two-seaters are, as mentioned by Peter, impossible to take by surprise (unless complex House Rules are used).
    The points system explicitly states that it takes no account of altitude - yet attacking a two-seater from below and behind, where it cannot shoot back, is both the most effective method in the game and also the most successful historical method.

    I've gone on record several times with my personal belief that the points system is broken - indeed ALL points systems are.
    Points rely on delivering "bang for buck", and they don't in this game; nor do they in most others (witness the constant changes to points values which accompany all new editions of existing games).
    I do understand, though, that many players see points as a source of reassurance that they have an equal chance to win (even when, in fact, they sometimes don't), especially when there is incomplete knowledge of the capabilities of the enemy's hardware.
    Opposing players who are not familiar with each other also gain comfort from a mathematical total which appears to match that of the enemy player.
    I wouldn't want to see players prevented from using points - but I won't use them, for the reasons explained here.

    A flexible few points plus or minus, rather than an exact equality, will produce an increased likelihood of an even fight.
    Generally, two planes of equal guns, with equal speed, and equal damage points will produce a very even fight.
    The problem arises when numbers differ on the two sides; in practically every game system, 5 units totalling 1000 points will almost always defeat a single 1000 point unit, and it's the same in Wings of War/Glory.

    Any game which includes the entirely random possibility of a damage card draw varying from "zero" damage to "complete destruction" makes a nonsense of any mathematical comparison system.

    Two seaters automatically pay more points for having a second crewman, and even more again if he has a machine gun, so will usually cost more points than a single-seat scout, but the combat capabilities of that second gun are widely variable - some have narrow arcs, others an arc approaching 300 degrees. A single rear gun, plus a single forward gun, can provide an inexperienced pilot with a shot on every manoeuvre card played, yet the twin guns of an 'A' mounting cost the same, but are far less likely to be able to fire card for card, and deliver less damage, manoeuvre card for manoeuvre card, when they do shoot, because of this inconsistency.

    Extra manoeuvre cards also cost extra points, but if the player doesn't choose to use them turn by turn, then he is paying extra "bucks" for no extra "bang".
    The Albatros D.II and D.III show this nicely - the only difference between the two planes is the 2 extra sideslip cards of the 'J' deck over the 'V' deck; the better climb rate of the D.III is ignored by the altitude-free points system. If the D.III player doesn't use all 3 sideslips in the same direction in a given turn, then he is paying extra points from which he gets no benefit at all.

    Just my opinion, of course.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  18. #18

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    Welcome to the 'drome, Mike!

    Mats: as big as you need to play the games you want to play? Tight dogfights between 2-4 planes can be played on a single Ares game mat. More planes than that might best be played on two mats. If the scenario is an escort/intercept one, the length of a single mat might work, if the two-seater/bomber isn't too fast. If you want a big furball, with lots of planes per side, you might want a big mat, to give maneuver options, without loosing planes off the sides. Wiings of War/Glory was originally designed to play on a kitchen table, one of the reasons the maneuver cards are the size they are, and not playing card size.

    Balance: For me, I try to put together scenarios based on historical situations, and not the "points value" of given planes. Historically, one side or the other was disadvantaged by technical advancements, and the pilots of the time just had to deal with it. Which is where expressions like "the Fokker Scourge, " or "Bloody April," come from. Things in war are rarely balanced.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  19. #19

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome, Mike, from here in the United Kingdom.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Throxx View Post
    Thanks! I plan on dragging a friend into this game and was wondering which match-ups should be the most even. Should I just use the point system I have found here and try to stay within 5 points or so?

    And regarding that, what is up with the two-seaters seeming to be kings of the air. I mean the Airco DH4 is rated higher than the Fokker D.VII? Or the Hannover CL.IIIa being rated higher than any allied scout except for the Snipe? I don't recall the allies confiscating the Hannover like they did the D.VII at the end of the war.

    Keep in mind that I have yet to actually play the game.
    Mike, as Tim said, the points system can seem comforting at first, but even as a new player I didn't bother with it. Readily available planes that make good matchups are:
    Sopwith Camel vs Fokker Dr.I
    Nieuport 28 vs Fokker E.V(D.VIII)
    Macchi M.5 vs Phonix D.I

    There are others that work fine too, any Albatros or Pfalz scouts can be fun yet lack the sharp turns.

    Two seaters are great for running simple scenarios like photo recon. Get the slower ones like the Albatros C.III, Rumpler C.IV, and RAF RE8 so you can chase them down.

  21. #21

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    Tim said it all and spot on at that.

    The great equalizer is the randomness in the damage decks. I've inflicted 13 cards of damage only to be shot down by 2. Knowing the enemy's plane's capabilities as well as your own is worth more than points.
    I don't use the point system (see Tim's reasons) and have had the greatest time with this game. Once you've played the game a while you'll get a feel for close battles. One on one is good to start with but multi plane fights with a mission, or better yet a campaign, is the way to go.

  22. #22

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    Hi and welcome from the Buckeye state,

    I've always enjoyed playing the Nieuport 28 vs. the Fokker EV as both use the same maneuver deck and are close in damage points. Plus the razor is just cool looking

  23. #23

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    Well said, Tim. I've only played a few games (thanks again, COVID), but I found the charts that depict which aircraft were actually in service at any particular time during the war are what works for me. Choose planes that actually were in the air at the same time and you've got a taste of what was. Certainly not always evenly matched, but that was historically the rub as new aircraft leapfrogged ahead in performance (or didn't).

    And for the most fun of all... the battle scenarios that the enthusiasts here put together? Amazing!

  24. #24

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    You could always double down - play any plane against any other, then swap planes and play again.

    Combine the damage from the two games to determine who won...
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  25. #25

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    Hello Mike

    Another welcome from across the Pond. Dive in and enjoy.

    Love my Aries mats and always will. Then I saw the "Over No Man's Land" map from Deep Cut Studios. It is a thing of beauty. Oh, will be getting another Aries mat.

    Welcome to the Show

  26. #26

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    (welcoming head bobs) from the lizard a bit to the north of you.

    Don't have much to add to what others have said before, except to be sure to check out the files section for "unofficial" planes, scenarios, campaign suggestions, etc, for either solo or multi-player play.
    Last edited by zenlizard; 03-23-2021 at 04:47.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by camel crew View Post
    Hello Mike

    Another welcome from across the Pond. Dive in and enjoy.

    Love my Aries mats and always will. Then I saw the "Over No Man's Land" map from Deep Cut Studios. It is a thing of beauty. Oh, will be getting another Aries mat.

    Welcome to the Show
    Hi! Did you have a link to this map? I didnt see it on their site. -Thank you!

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    How you approach game balance is entirely a personal choice.

    When starting out, as a relatively inexperienced Wings pilot, the points system may well prove helpful and reassuring.
    Later, with more experience and a deeper understanding of the structure of the points system and the nuances of gameplay, I think the points system would prove less useful.
    With the addition of altitude rules, the points system loses even more relevance.

    Two-seaters are, as mentioned by Peter, impossible to take by surprise (unless complex House Rules are used).
    The points system explicitly states that it takes no account of altitude - yet attacking a two-seater from below and behind, where it cannot shoot back, is both the most effective method in the game and also the most successful historical method.

    I've gone on record several times with my personal belief that the points system is broken - indeed ALL points systems are.
    Points rely on delivering "bang for buck", and they don't in this game; nor do they in most others (witness the constant changes to points values which accompany all new editions of existing games).
    I do understand, though, that many players see points as a source of reassurance that they have an equal chance to win (even when, in fact, they sometimes don't), especially when there is incomplete knowledge of the capabilities of the enemy's hardware.
    Opposing players who are not familiar with each other also gain comfort from a mathematical total which appears to match that of the enemy player.
    I wouldn't want to see players prevented from using points - but I won't use them, for the reasons explained here.

    A flexible few points plus or minus, rather than an exact equality, will produce an increased likelihood of an even fight.
    Generally, two planes of equal guns, with equal speed, and equal damage points will produce a very even fight.
    The problem arises when numbers differ on the two sides; in practically every game system, 5 units totalling 1000 points will almost always defeat a single 1000 point unit, and it's the same in Wings of War/Glory.

    Any game which includes the entirely random possibility of a damage card draw varying from "zero" damage to "complete destruction" makes a nonsense of any mathematical comparison system.

    Two seaters automatically pay more points for having a second crewman, and even more again if he has a machine gun, so will usually cost more points than a single-seat scout, but the combat capabilities of that second gun are widely variable - some have narrow arcs, others an arc approaching 300 degrees. A single rear gun, plus a single forward gun, can provide an inexperienced pilot with a shot on every manoeuvre card played, yet the twin guns of an 'A' mounting cost the same, but are far less likely to be able to fire card for card, and deliver less damage, manoeuvre card for manoeuvre card, when they do shoot, because of this inconsistency.

    Extra manoeuvre cards also cost extra points, but if the player doesn't choose to use them turn by turn, then he is paying extra "bucks" for no extra "bang".
    The Albatros D.II and D.III show this nicely - the only difference between the two planes is the 2 extra sideslip cards of the 'J' deck over the 'V' deck; the better climb rate of the D.III is ignored by the altitude-free points system. If the D.III player doesn't use all 3 sideslips in the same direction in a given turn, then he is paying extra points from which he gets no benefit at all.

    Just my opinion, of course.
    Excellent points! Thank you! I was a little fixated on points since I have played X-Wing for years.

    I will use the Years of Service file to base my matchups on which was suggested by Von Scharf. I will use this guide while running a campaign with a buddy of mine. Its going to be a little disappointing not being able to use the Airco D.H.2, Morane Saulnier and Nieuport 11 for the allies with Fokker E.III and Albatros D.II for the Central powers. You just cant get these plane now. So, my plan is to use the Nieuport 17 and Albatros D.III. Thats the best I can do for the earlier planes. Ive already got good matchups for 1917 and 1918 based on the service file.

  29. #29

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    Early planes other than the N11 are tough to find right now. If you like modeling or painting your own there are other options. Valom makes model kits some here have had success with. Shapeways makes just about any WWI airplane you could imagine.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Early planes other than the N11 are tough to find right now. If you like modeling or painting your own there are other options. Valom makes model kits some here have had success with. Shapeways makes just about any WWI airplane you could imagine.
    Just beware the slippery slope - Shapeways in particular have a nasty habit of multiplying behind your back!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Just beware the slippery slope - Shapeways in particular have a nasty habit of multiplying behind your back!
    Didn't want to scar him. I have ~300 still to paint in my closet.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I have ~300 still to paint in my closet.
    Amateur!

    I finally completed my Shapeways spreadsheet update this afternoon - 800 on the nose!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Amateur!

    I finally completed my Shapeways spreadsheet update this afternoon - 800 on the nose!
    Tim, I wasn't boasting as I know better. No one in their right mind would ever think they were in the same league as you.

    So, when will they all be painted and have been on a game table?

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post

    So, when will they all be painted and have been on a game table?
    25 years after I get out of rehab...
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Early planes other than the N11 are tough to find right now. If you like modeling or painting your own there are other options. Valom makes model kits some here have had success with. Shapeways makes just about any WWI airplane you could imagine.
    GAH!! I just saw the Shapeways models! They look great! Do they come with the hole in the bottom for the peg?

    Where is the best place to get decals?

  36. #36

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    Kevin at Miscmini has a good selection and when he can will do custom decals.

    Most planes have nothing on the bottom of the fuselage. A few have the peg as part of the plane. There are pegs available on Shapeways. I myself glue a ball bearing on the fuselage bottom. I use the gimbal sets Keith sells here on the Aerodrome store. With these you can bank the plane so it looks like it is turning in flight. Very nice when you are taking photos.

    In the Hobby section check out the spreadsheets with hot links to all planes Shapeways and accessories. I know there are more planes out there but I update the lists when I can. The pegs will be on the accessory list.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Throxx View Post
    Hi! Did you have a link to this map? I didnt see it on their site. -Thank you!
    Ahh you are doomed lol. You're asking the good questions. "Over No Man's Land" is just a name I suggested they use to refer to the custom mat I had made. I think they know of it if you email them and ask at custom@deepcutstudio.com
    Name:  IMG_20200608_184350.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throxx View Post
    GAH!! I just saw the Shapeways models! They look great! Do they come with the hole in the bottom for the peg?

    Where is the best place to get decals?
    Shapeways don't have the peg but they sell them: short posts. miscmini.com is great for decals.

  38. #38

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    welcome to the drome Mike
    well, that escalated quckly! sounds like youre on the right track; get every mini and accessory you can get your grubby paws on lol
    just accept the inevitable, theres no known cure.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut

    I finally completed my Shapeways spreadsheet update this afternoon - 800 on the nose!
    that much weight, you're going to break your nose.

  40. #40

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    OMG! I just started my first repaint tonight and I take a little break... to read that Tim and Peter have over 1100 Shapeways between them?!

    And then I see poor Throxx is in the deep end in his first few days!

    I may just put my paintbrush down and seek help now.

  41. #41

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    I'm located down in Goldsboro NC and run a wargaming club at Seymour Johnson afb. I have a bunch of the WW1 & WW2 planes and we regularly run games. Hit me up if interested, racm32@gmail.com



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