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Thread: Is that Fokker Bavarian?

  1. #1

    Default Is that Fokker Bavarian?

    Guten Tag, everyone,

    New chap in the mess, so my round, I presume.

    Usually go by Baron Von Wreckedoften on wargaming sites, but too long to use here; no matter. (Oooh, he uses semi-colons..... )

    Real name is Brendan Morrissey, author of several books and organiser of several historical events revolving around the American War of Independence, and a wargamer for over 50 years, including - back in the late 1970s - a considerable interest in WW1 aircraft boardgames (eg Richtofen's War, the early version of Wings of War and the venerable Sopwith - anyone remember that?). Fast forward several decades and I recently bought a second-hand set of Wings of Glory rules and a bunch of extra planes (including a Gotha - big buggers weren't they!) to help out a friend, but also from the recollection of enjoyable games at Valhalla, the Farnborough Club's annual show on Father's Day (is it still going?).

    Also, as will become tediously apparent, I am a HUGE fan of anything Bavarian. Not just the beer, the sausages, more beer, the lederhosen, still more beer, thigh-slapping dances, even more beer, Oktoberfest, another beer? (why not!), and blouse-bursting barmaids....did I mention the beer?.....but also all things military. And, if I'm brutally honest, probably the result of nothing more than an extreme, possibly even unhealthy, liking for Cornflower Blue (just to be clear, that's cornflower as in the plant with the purplish flowers, not the stuff you use to thicken soups and stews), which I was surprised to find was not just the staple colour of Bavarian army uniforms, but also the basis of many WW1 aircraft colour schemes. Which brings me neatly on to my joining this forum....

    I am principally interested in gaming with aircraft using the unique colour schemes of well-known Bavarian pilots (eg Lt Wolf of Jasta 5, or the Bohnings of Jasta 76b) and am seeking information on whether 1/144 scale commercial decals currently exist for these aircraft - and many, many others. If anyone can help with this quest, I would be most appreciative. As a suitably appropriate 'quid pro quo', may I offer this, which I discovered the other day.....

    https://101israel.com/bavarian-air-f...econnaissance/

    I look forward to making the acquaintance of as many of you as I can in the years left to me (or to my memory, at least).
    Last edited by VonWreckedoften; 03-26-2021 at 16:54.

  2. #2

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome Brendan. Bit of a change of pace from British Grenadier AWI games.
    There is a whole lot of information contained within this forum and the associated Files section. I'm sure you'll find something useful. The chaps are very helpful and I'm sure I've seen more than a few pictures of some outstanding Bavarian aircraft colour schemes.
    Might I suggest you also check out the Flight Club post. You would be very welcome if you can make it along in July.

  3. #3

    Karo7's Avatar
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    Welcome to the aerodrome. A few planes come to my mind, if I think of Bavarian flag markings: Hans Bohing Hasta 76b (Alb D. V), Franz Hailer Jastas 29 (Pfalz. D.III), Fritz Schliewen Jasta 6 (Fokker D.VII) and of course Ltn. Wolf, of Jasta 5 (Alb D.VII). Unfortunately none of these are available as 1/144 decals. There are a few members who made their own.

    But aren't the inner values more important? What about a D.VII with BMW engine?

  4. #4

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    Welcome to you from not so sunny Nottingham young man. I'm sure that from your CV you will be right at home here.
    Where did you do your AWI re-enacting? I may have seen you then, but certainly hope to meet you in the future.
    Till that day,fly safe and watch your six.

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #5

  6. #6

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome Brendan. I don't know of any current Bavarian decals available. I myself would love some too.

  7. #7

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome, Brendan from here near Norwich.

  8. #8

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    Welcome aboard - you’ve joined a group of like minded individuals!

  9. #9

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    Welcome to the 'Drome, Brendan!

    I'm another pilot waiting (im)patiently for Bavarian decals.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  10. #10

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    Welcome from sunny/rainy/sunny (changed several times in the last 3 minutes) Portland, Oregon, Brendan.
    Have a beer
    or two

  11. #11

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    Welcome from South Australia Brendan. Nice to get a cultured author on board. Not that I am saying that the folk here lack couth or anything.

    Everyone here cares for each other and we will do all we can to help you if you need it so any questions just keep asking.

  12. #12

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    Welcome, too, from the west country Brendan. Enjoy

  13. #13

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    Welcome Brendan, from snowy Colorado. The gang here is great help with all things WoG and WWI air war in general.

    The closet thing I’ve been able to find to the Bavarian diamond pattern in 1/44 scale decals are these checkered pattern decals out of China on eBay. They come in all colors, including a passable blue - but they aren’t the diamond shape that we all want, and even on edge - they are still squares, not an elongated diamond shape.

    The hunt continues...

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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauerkraut View Post
    Welcome to the Aerodrome Brendan. Bit of a change of pace from British Grenadier AWI games.
    Thank you, Andy - are you THAT Andy who organised the BG games at Wessex Wargames Society a few years back? If so, you've been sadly missed. And I still haven't managed to get a British unit to complete a bayonet charge (only 12 years and counting.....)!!!

    I shall definitely check out the Flight Club post. See you soon, I hope.

  15. #15

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    Well, thank you gentlemen (I assume you are all male) for that truly world-wide welcome - Colorado to S Australia with one post!

    I am saddened to hear that there are no "rhomboid" decals - a massive (and difficult to understand) omission. I wonder what the problem is, given that they are available in larger scales without too much problem?

    Do I take it that there is a solid core of members who would be interested in supporting the production of such decals? I have been sounding out several manufacturers and have had a positive response from one, but he requires a minimum order of 25 sheets of A4. I shall wait to get myself acclimatised to the forum and perhaps start a new thread about this.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonWreckedoften View Post
    Thank you, Andy - are you THAT Andy who organised the BG games at Wessex Wargames Society a few years back? If so, you've been sadly missed.
    Guilty as charged. Who knows, when Covid-19 settles down, I may manage to get back there with some more BG games. I've been running a few at Entoyment in Poole in the meantime.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo7 View Post
    Welcome to the aerodrome. A few planes come to my mind, if I think of Bavarian flag markings: Hans Bohing Hasta 76b (Alb D. V), Franz Hailer Jastas 29 (Pfalz. D.III), Fritz Schliewen Jasta 6 (Fokker D.VII) and of course Ltn. Wolf, of Jasta 5 (Alb D.VII). Unfortunately none of these are available as 1/144 decals. There are a few members who made their own.

    But aren't the inner values more important? What about a D.VII with BMW engine?
    Hi Florian,

    Thank you for that list - I knew of all of them except Franz Hailer, so that new bit of information was most welcome. Given that several pilots had the rhomboid "patch" just to the rear of the cockpit, I'm surprised that no manufacturer has noted this and just produced a basic decal for that.

    I worked for some years for British Aerospace Military Aircraft and a group of colleagues went over to see the (then) new BMW facility at Regensburg. The thing they found most amazing was not the state-of-the-art computerised production line, or the cleanliness of the factory, or the quality of the engines and the cars generally - it was the fact that you could get sausage and beer out of the vending machines in the staff rest rooms - during working hours! No British manufacturing company would EVER allow its workforce to drink on site in working hours because it would be carnage!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Welcome to you from not so sunny Nottingham young man. I'm sure that from your CV you will be right at home here.
    Where did you do your AWI re-enacting? I may have seen you then, but certainly hope to meet you in the future.
    Till that day,fly safe and watch your six.

    Rob.
    Hi Rob,

    Not a re-enactor, but have worked with a few, principally the 37th and 47th Foot. I was promised instant divorce if I even thought about "that dressing up thing" (and from the way she said it, I suspect that infidelity would only have come in a distant second in the overall list of such causes). I am very familiar with Nottingham, having an annual gaming weekend engagement (usually coinciding with Partizn 1) with the Messrs Perry, for whom I do historical research. Looking forward to meeting you and as many other members as possible once the Flu Manchu gets kicked into touch (Jab 1 completed, Jab 2 scheduled for late May).

  19. #19

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    Welcome Brendan, looks like we could all learn a lot from you.

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  20. #20

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    (welcoming head bobs) from the lizard here in the 'States.

    If you're looking for custom decals, keep in n mind there are a couple of people on the 'Drome who do their own custom jobs-check out the For Sale/Trade/Wanted threads. Also, the Hobby Room has some threads that might be of interest: "Colors & Markings" and "Shapeways Models" feature some people who can do up a custom sheet or two.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    Welcome Brendan, looks like we could all learn a lot from you.
    Definitely your man for excruciating puns!

  22. #22

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    Been looking at your books on Amazon... blimey, you have been busy.

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  23. #23

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    Ah, past glories, I'm afraid - all written between 1994 and 2004. Not much since, unfortunately; mostly research for other people - and for Alan Perry's AWI range.

  24. #24

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    welcome to the drome from the land of buckeyes (ohio usa) Brendan!!! i also have a soft spot for bavaria as most of my family heritage is from there.

  25. #25

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    Is your avatar of a Bavarian aircraft, given the fuselage colours? Whereabouts are your family from in Bavaria?

    For various reasons, partly the Catholic link, partly because of the nature of the countryside in that part of Germany, I have always found myself drawn to the place for all my mainstream wargaming interests, starting with the 30 Years War, then the wars of Louis XIV, then into the Napoleonic era, and I've recently found myself looking at the late 1860s/1870s. Such a shame they never had a navy.....

    A little boring story for any surviving relatives you might have back in Bavaria. As a young man, I played rugby for the old boys side of my school in Wimbledon (south west London); one day we had a chap turn up with a strong European accent, who wanted to play rugby, but was possibly the weediest guy I have ever seen (we actually had trouble finding kit for him). Unfortunately, his physique meant that - even at our (very) low standard - he was just going to get hurt, but he achieved renown as something of a character at the club. First, we found out that he was a supply teacher (maths and physics) at Eton College, the UK's premier private school - after games, he would supervise the bar and add up the cost of each round of drinks as the (several) bar staff called them out. Then we found out he was an amazing chess player - one night he withdrew from training and retired to the clubhouse, where we later found he had set up six tables with chess boards on them; he then proceeded to play - and beat - six of us (five of them Oxford/Cambridge graduates, and me - the dunce!) whilst watching a nature documentary on the clubhouse TV. Eventually. he announced he was going back to Germany, so we had a going away party for him, at the end of which - quite drunk - he pointed at the photo-portrait of The Queen behind the bar, and said, "Maybe I will come back when you have got rid of that usurper and replaced her with my cousin!" None of us knew what he meant, but he was aware of my historical interests and Irish background, so he said to me: "I'll trust you to find out the significance of that!" A little while later, we found some of his kit left in one of the changing rooms and I 'phoned Eton to get it back to him; during that conversation, I found out that his surname was Wittelsbach! His cousin was (still is, I think) Franz, Grand Duke of Bavaria and the current head of the House of Stuart. As in Bonnie Prince Charlie. Apparently, the Grand Duke has renounced his claim to the British throne, and is childless, but he has a younger brother who has several children, the eldest of whom - a boy - is the first Stuart to be born in the British Isles (London) in over 300 years!

    All the best, and thanks for the welcome!

  26. #26

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    Thank you for the heads-up, Sam - I shall look those out. I did track down a guy called John McEwan in the US (tin-soldier.com) who has a lovely range of 1/144 WW1 decals, but unfortunately he is tied up with a number of other business projects for the coming months and couldn't help. Looks like the search continues.....

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonWreckedoften View Post
    Is your avatar of a Bavarian aircraft, given the fuselage colours? Whereabouts are your family from in Bavaria?

    For various reasons, partly the Catholic link, partly because of the nature of the countryside in that part of Germany, I have always found myself drawn to the place for all my mainstream wargaming interests, starting with the 30 Years War, then the wars of Louis XIV, then into the Napoleonic era, and I've recently found myself looking at the late 1860s/1870s. Such a shame they never had a navy.....

    A little boring story for any surviving relatives you might have back in Bavaria. As a young man, I played rugby for the old boys side of my school in Wimbledon (south west London); one day we had a chap turn up with a strong European accent, who wanted to play rugby, but was possibly the weediest guy I have ever seen (we actually had trouble finding kit for him). Unfortunately, his physique meant that - even at our (very) low standard - he was just going to get hurt, but he achieved renown as something of a character at the club. First, we found out that he was a supply teacher (maths and physics) at Eton College, the UK's premier private school - after games, he would supervise the bar and add up the cost of each round of drinks as the (several) bar staff called them out. Then we found out he was an amazing chess player - one night he withdrew from training and retired to the clubhouse, where we later found he had set up six tables with chess boards on them; he then proceeded to play - and beat - six of us (five of them Oxford/Cambridge graduates, and me - the dunce!) whilst watching a nature documentary on the clubhouse TV. Eventually. he announced he was going back to Germany, so we had a going away party for him, at the end of which - quite drunk - he pointed at the photo-portrait of The Queen behind the bar, and said, "Maybe I will come back when you have got rid of that usurper and replaced her with my cousin!" None of us knew what he meant, but he was aware of my historical interests and Irish background, so he said to me: "I'll trust you to find out the significance of that!" A little while later, we found some of his kit left in one of the changing rooms and I 'phoned Eton to get it back to him; during that conversation, I found out that his surname was Wittelsbach! His cousin was (still is, I think) Franz, Grand Duke of Bavaria and the current head of the House of Stuart. As in Bonnie Prince Charlie. Apparently, the Grand Duke has renounced his claim to the British throne, and is childless, but he has a younger brother who has several children, the eldest of whom - a boy - is the first Stuart to be born in the British Isles (London) in over 300 years!

    All the best, and thanks for the welcome!

    i dont know. tried a google search of schafer but couldnt really find much. the d7s paintscheme was schafers variation of the squadron paintsheme. it was the only fokker d7 avatar available to me lol.

    not sure of the precise area, but grandpa always talked about the munich area. he also talked about the schwarzwald area as well. i know we had both high, and low german speakers in the family because of the only 2 german phrases to come down to me through the family "sprechen se de deutch?" and "canz du deutsch sprechen". dont know which is which though.

    ive definitely been drawn to germany as well. grandpa (full german) and grandma (half german/half irish) were proud of their german heritage and i guess they instilled that in me. im also drawn to playing germany in gaming as anyone whos "flown" with me at origins game fair can attest lol. plus the planes are so much more colorful lol.

    as the family name is bauer, im sure ive got many relatives across germany lol. thats quite a story. was he serious or being hyperbolic for humorous effect? certainly illustrates the soap opera antics of the interrelated european royalty lol (no offense intended).

    youre welcome. youll love our lovely little sanctuary!

  28. #28

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    Welcome Brendan from me in Bristol.
    Yes there is something about Bavaria, apart from the beer, which I was lucky to get acquainted with when I got posted to West Germany .
    I have a 15mm Napoleonic Bavarian force as well as a 15mm Seven Years War Bavarian force and just for now


  29. #29

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    I've got these

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    A bit big for the fuselage, but possibly OK for full wing coverage?
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  30. #30

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    My favourite Bavarian

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  31. #31

    Karo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    My favourite Bavarian

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    I think this cake has only its name in common with Bavaria

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boney10 View Post
    Welcome Brendan from me in Bristol.
    OMG - I WANT ONE!!!

    Seriously, where/how did you acquire that?

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    My favourite Bavarian

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    The "Bavarois" is a form of cream invented in the early 19th Century, possibly to honour some high-ranking Bavarian (presumably one of the Wittelsbachs who was sufficiently sane to be allowed out in public). One of the earliest recipes is found in - I kid you not - a tome entitled The Fannie Farmer Cookbook. Not quite sure what type of farming that is - a cash crop springs instantly to mind.....

  34. #34

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    One thing that has been suggested to me - not just on here but on other wargaming websites - is to cannibalise some 15mm Napoleonic Bavarian flags and make my own decals. The only problem with that is the "tapering" effect needed for a wrap-around decal that covers all the way down to the tail where the fuselage cross-section becomes progressively narrower.

  35. #35

    Karo7's Avatar
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    Ah, "Bayrisch' Creme", thank you for the info - I knew only the white variant. You live and learn. I will definitely try the "Charlotte russe" receipt

    Concerning the decals: I take a thin piece of paper, wrap it around the fuselage (or other wanted part) and carefully cut off overlapping parts, until I get the right shape. Sometimes you have to make cuts right in the piece, to allow the paper follow round shapes. I scan the finished piece of paper, and convert it into a vector object. Than I can put a texture on it and print it.

  36. #36

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    Thanks, Florian. I don't know that my modelling skills are that good any more, but I might give that a go.

    Also, when I said "the tapering effect" I meant on the size of the individual rhomboids, not the actual decal as a whole - sorry, I should have made that clearer.

  37. #37

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    Do you have original photos?

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    If so, I'll see what I can do.

  38. #38

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    Zoe - No, unfortunately I don't; however, I can provide colour artwork that you could work from (unfortunately, nobody makes the right decals in 1/144 at the moment). I see you come from a land Down Under (in the words of the song), so depending on price/P&P costs, I might order several aircraft from you with Bavarian patterns. Do you want to PM me and we can discuss further?

  39. #39

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    Hi Brendan, sorry taken a while to answer you.
    This started out as a Von Hipple DVa model, I then found the Bavarian aircraft I wanted and made a reduced copy and made my own decal.
    To get the shape I had to overlap towards the tail but before wetting decal dry fit it and cutto shape.
    Ill see if I still got the template.
    I also tried to use the Revo 15 mm Napoleonic flag but found they did not stick properly.
    Give me a couple of days and Ill check my decal files

    You may see the join of the decal

  40. #40

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    Hi Chris

    If you still have the template I'd be interested in a decal...
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  41. #41

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    No worries about the delay - I've been off-line helping my son move flat, so not monitoring my mail anyway!

    Yes please - I would love to see this! I've just been talking to a graphic artists friend (who is also into WoW/WoG) who has explained to me why it's not simply a case of getting a 1/72 version and just down-sizing it (drat and triple drat, as **** Dastardly used to say). Is it possible to have the "join" on the underneath of the fuselage where it won't be seen (quite so much) and do you need to remove the landing gear?

    If I send you the wool....errrr.....artwork, would you be interested in making other Bavarian decals for me (which I'd be quite happy for you to sell to any other interested parties)? I've got two more versions of Wolff (the design you've posted), an abbreviated one (the engine section of the fuselage was a "natural" colour) for Walter Bohning of 76b, two "stripe" designs (one vertical rings, one longitudinal stripes) for Hans Bohning of 32b, as well as a few "rhomboid patch" aircraft where they just put a small(ish) square of it around the cockpit area. Interested?
    Last edited by VonWreckedoften; 03-24-2021 at 03:57.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Hi Chris

    If you still have the template I'd be interested in a decal...
    No probs Tim if I still got

  43. #43

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    Is it possible to have the "join" on the underneath of the fuselage where it won't be seen (quite so much) and do you need to remove the landing gear?

    If I send you the wool....errrr.....artwork, would you be interested in making other Bavarian decals for me (which I'd be quite happy for you to sell to any other interested parties)? I've got two more versions of Wolff (the design you've posted), an abbreviated one (the engine section of the fuselage was a "natural" colour) for Walter Bohning of 76b, two "stripe" designs (one vertical rings, one longitudinal stripes) for Hans Bohning of 32b, as well as a few "rhomboid patch" aircraft where they just put a small(ish) square of it around the cockpit area. Interested?
    No I didnt remove the under carriage, although this is relatively easy using the freezer method, the decal I did was in two halves and I joined together top and underneath so hopefully that answers that one for you.
    The Hans B with verticle stripes should be relatively easy to do , just make a sheet of striped decal.
    I take it you have a printer and have sealant ?
    The one with the horizontal looks nice, I did try to make this one but came out a dismal failure I am afraid, I am a gamer with a bit of modelling not a designer Unfortunately, by trade was a telecomms eng

  44. #44

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    A big "thank you" to everyone who helped (especially Wg Cmdr Hedeby!) to sort out the avatar that I wanted.

    I shall be quiet for a wee while now, and try to be a less demanding member.
    Last edited by VonWreckedoften; 03-27-2021 at 12:26.

  45. #45

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    Hello Brendan
    How's it going? Wondering if you've been keeping an eye on a new arrival at this front?
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    (FB and look for NZ-Warbirds-Association-Inc)
    Other pix can be found by looking for aircraft registration ZK-ARS

  46. #46

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    Another nice looking bird, Terry

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonWreckedoften View Post
    4

    I shall be quiet for a wee while now, and try to be a less demanding member.
    Do please keep your posts flowing Brendan. Members comments are what keeps the site so vibrant.

    For instanceI had not heard reference to the wool joke for many a year.

    I hope your modelling and especially your decal application continues to go well and look forwaed to seeing the results.

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."



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