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Thread: Phoenix D. I / X-Deck short dive in Overdives?

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    Default Phoenix D. I / X-Deck short dive in Overdives?

    Can the Phoenix D. I resp. any plane with the X-Deck execute an Overdive with the short dive as the second maneuver in the sequence?

  2. #2

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    Hm, good question. When the rules were originally written, the X-Deck and the concept of a short dive weren't envisioned. Personally, I would take the concept of diving to put out the flames to its logical conclusion, and say yes. But that's just one lizard's opinion.
    Last edited by zenlizard; 03-08-2021 at 04:49.

  3. #3

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    Overdive is a stall & a dive followed by a straight so I'd have said a Phoenix's shorter dive card followed by a straight achieves the objective.

    "He is wise who watches"

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  5. #5

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    What about using the short straight after the short dive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauerkraut View Post
    What about using the short straight after the short dive?
    Of course this have to be clarified, too.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauerkraut View Post
    What about using the short straight after the short dive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Karo7 View Post
    Of course this have to be clarified, too.
    I would think no but defer to the grognards. The #10 card does not have an up arrow in the lower right corner of the card as the #1 - 3 straights do. It has no symbol at all.

  8. #8

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    It has come up before:
    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Couple of things come to mind David -

    If you use the shorter 'drop like a stone' for an overdive and follow that with the normal dive card you'd end on a steep manoeuvre and that may compromise your options for the next move compared to a standard overdive.

    If you allow an overdive using a double 'drop like a stone' dive, then using the 'non-steep stall' as the last card would make sense as it ends the manoeuvre on a non-steep like the straight on a standard overdive.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-a-Phoenix-D-I

    Don't think anyone ran this past Andrea but this would give you overdive options in the Phoenix.

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #9

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    Might need to have Andrea weigh in on this.

    I agree with Chris that maybe the non-steep stall shouldn't be used at the end of an over-dive as it is not technically a straight.

    The two dive cards I don't see being used back to back in WGF. WGS has dive bombers that can play more than one dive in a row but there is no option in WGF rules for this. The Phoenix should have had a special rule when it was released if this is allowed.

  10. #10

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    Can the non-steep straight (10 card) of the x deck be used as the first straight in an Immelmann move?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Can the non-steep straight (10 card) of the x deck be used as the first straight in an Immelmann move?
    No it cannot. It must be a normal straight (marked) or a stall(steep) for a Split-S.

    "He is wise who watches"

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    No it cannot. It must be a normal straight (marked) or a stall(steep) for a Split-S.
    Ok thanks

  13. #13

  14. #14

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    Already linked Dave

    "He is wise who watches"

  15. #15

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    Can the non-steep stall be used for the engine-damage rule?

  16. #16

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    I would say no - it's not a "stall".

    The Fokker D.VII has the same < one "stall" one "short ahead" > card pair in its deck - it must play the "stall" (with the steep symbol) if it has engine damage.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I would say no - it's not a "stall".

    The Fokker D.VII has the same < one "stall" one "short ahead" > card pair in its deck - it must play the "stall" (with the steep symbol) if it has engine damage.
    Thx for your reply. Out of curiosity, what is the technical/historical explanation for the "short ahead" and "drop-dive" ?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokusai View Post
    Thx for your reply. Out of curiosity, what is the technical/historical explanation for the "short ahead" and "drop-dive" ?
    For the Fokker D.VII it's the "hang on the prop" ability.

    With no "steep" symbol on the "short ahead" card, you can play "steep Short Turn Right", then "short ahead", then "steep Short Turn Left" as a three card sequence.
    The D.VII will move a very short distance compared to all other planes, and can pour bullets into a target as that plane passes it.

    D.VIIs were reported by their opponents to be able to "hang on the prop", nose upward, firing streams of bullets into target planes without stalling and falling away. I don't know of any other aircraft reported to have been able to do this.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    For the Fokker D.VII it's the "hang on the prop" ability.

    With no "steep" symbol on the "short ahead" card, you can play "steep Short Turn Right", then "short ahead", then "steep Short Turn Left" as a three card sequence.
    The D.VII will move a very short distance compared to all other planes, and can pour bullets into a target as that plane passes it.

    D.VIIs were reported by their opponents to be able to "hang on the prop", nose upward, firing streams of bullets into target planes without stalling and falling away. I don't know of any other aircraft reported to have been able to do this.
    Well there's always Chris Hedebys Bristols


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