Which planes should I get?

[CanonFodder]

At the moment, I have just six planes, which I feel is not enough to wage a serious war with. So which planes should I get next?

At my aerodrome, there are:

Allied
Sopwith Camel (Elwood)
Sopwith Camel (Stackard)
Spad XIII (Madon)

German
Aviatik DJ (Linke-Crawford)
Albatros D.VA (Jacobs)
Fokker DR.I (Von Richthofen)

So which planes should I add to this meagre list? And do players like to build up squadrons, say of three Sopwiths or Albatroses?

And is it worth adding in some two-seaters into the mix?

And before I get carried away, how many planes is too many for a dogfight? So far, I've played 2v2 but I'd like to know how playable Wings is with more planes on the table before it gets too unwieldly. For reference, I've played 6v6 in X-Wing, which was much fun.

[gully_raker]

Well your problem is more like "What planes are available?"
If you can grab them then SE 5a's & Fokker D.VII's are a must. Definitely add some 2 seaters to your mix as they add a different dimension to your battles.
As for ideal numbers for a game 4 aircraft per side is a nice number to start with.

Might I suggest you check out the After Action Reports in the OTT section down in WW1 to see the type of missions using 2 seaters & the number of planes in use.

[Dawn Patrol]

1917 scouts are well-populated at the moment. Any other year for Central Powers scouts? Not much to be had (Fokker E.V, which were in the for last weeks of the war, but most of the 1917 continued to fly at least part way through 1918).

Available Central Scouts
Albatros D.III
Albatros D.Va
Pfalz D.IIIa
Aviatik D.I (just Sabeditsch)
Fokker Dr.I
Phönix D.I
Fokker E.V (extremely late 1918)

Fokker E.III, Halberstadt D.III, Albatros D.II, Siemens-Schuckart D.III, and Fokker D.VII are all out of print, so can cost ridiculous amounts of money - if you want to expand your air power quickly, your money is better spent on existing aircraft.

All that said, I’d go with the post Bloody April period, so 2 x Albatros D.Va, 2 x Pfalz D.IIIA, 2 x Fokker Dr.I (or more, because every noob wants to fly a triplane), and Phönix D.I if you want the Italian/Austrian front (though feel free to ignore history for whatever excuse fits your fancy). Against those, 2 x Spad XIII, 2 x Sopwith Camel, 2 x SE5a (be aware that the Billy Bishop SE5 (sans a) has a slightly different - mostly slower - deck), and the 2 Macchi M.5 if you want the Italian half of the Italian/AH front (there’s a captured version - not too hot on captured versions myself, so be aware when choosing). These will get you core mid-to-late 1917 and on into early 1918. One exception would be the Nieuport 28 (2nd quarter 1918, US), which I’d recommend getting because I suspect it is on the verge of selling out (and a fun plane to fly).

Two seaters! Yes, yes, yes! Bristol F2.b - I think only one version is still available - get it while you can! The Halberstadt CL.II is a good counterparts to the Brisfit - aggressive ground attack plane - the Hanover CL.III was 1918, but a good optional choice. Flying target observer/bombers: RAF Re.8 (Brit), Bréguet Br.14 (French - but I think there are US and Brit versions), Rumpler C.IV (German), Ufag C.I (Austria-Hungary). The Ufag is a fair way into 1918, but is AH specific and most of the planes listed here would still be around - just use the Rumpler if you want to save money. Be aware that two-seaters might come in a bewildering array of gun arrangements and usually reflect variations over time: b/b, a/b, b/a, a/a. I basically ignore what is printed for the given version and use what is appropriate to the time frame or scenario (upping the guns seriously ups the power of two seaters). Unlike the scouts, which I usually recommend two of, you can get away with one of these (especially if you use the Bristol or Halberstadt as an escort), at least to start with.

Edit in: Units tended to get one type of plane, rather than a bunch of different models that became logistics nightmares (though plenty of examples otherwise), so 3, 4, 5, 6, more, more, more of a given plane as time and money permit if you want to have larger, homogenous battles. I suggest two simply as a Pilot and his wingman as a solid start. I have at least two of every two seater and 2-6 of each scout, but that took a lot of time to build up.

[zenlizard]

Pfalz D-IIIs and SE 5s were in the most recent release, so they should still be available. Both 1917 single-seaters, so I'd get them if you can. And Bruce's advice on the 2-seaters was spot-on, I'd say.

[Baxter]

Given the rarity of most planes these days just buy what you can get. Bombers are always a good buy especially.

[milcoll73]

basically you want to get any mini you can get your hands on while its available. im still kicking myself for not getting some when they were available. i very much like 2 seaters and they open up a lot of scenario possibilities.

[flash]

... So which planes should I get next?
So which planes should I add to this meagre list? And do players like to build up squadrons, say of three Sopwiths or Albatroses?
And is it worth adding in some two-seaters into the mix?
And before I get carried away, how many planes is too many for a dogfight? So far, I've played 2v2 but I'd like to know how playable Wings is with more planes on the table before it gets too unwieldly. For reference, I've played 6v6 in X-Wing, which was much fun.

Look out for the SE5(Bishop), SE5a's & the Pfalz D.III/a's you might still find them.
Certainly get the tandems - some are very quick but scenarios work better if you can catch them so look for the RE8 for the Brits & the Albatros C.III for the Germans before picking up faster models like DH.4, Bristol fighter; The Hannover is a decent plane for the Germans.
I don't find the games bog down, depends on player numbers; one player per model works best, most can handle two but beyond that it can become hard work for many.
We've played 1 hour dog fights with up to 14 players before the pandemic shut us down as well as scenario driven games of a couple of hours.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ntoyment-Poole
See links too.

Take a look at this Jon it may help:
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...Aircraft-lt-lt

[Flying Helmut]

All excellent advice above

And do players like to build up squadrons, say of three Sopwiths or Albatroses?

Have a look here
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ad-(-Entente-)

and here
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ainting-Thread

but beware! Repainting is addictive, and, if you don't keep tight control, expensive!

[camel crew]

BUY THEN ALL - EVERYONE OF THEM - TWICE apologies, don't know what came over me EVERY ONE I SAY

[Von Scharf]

The chaps here on the forum are correct. Buy what you can find. They aren't really getting any cheaper.

Check out the files section of the forum. There are some guides on which planes match up well in terms of maneuverability/firewpower/sturdiness. There are a few guides on which planes matched up historically at any time during the war.

If you want to repaint your own squadrons, buy the least expensive planes and paint them up. For example, Kissenberth Camels and Richthofen Albatros D.V are about as cheap as you can find these days. An excellent place to start painting your own. Check miscmini.com or the Aerodrome Store here for decals. And check the aircraft painting threads here - you won't believe what these gents have painted. Stunning.

[CanonFodder]

Thank you for all the tips.

Certainly, I think I'm going to expanded on the planes I have and add in a couple of two-seaters (one on either side).

I like the idea of the bombers, but they are a bit pricey and I seem to recall reading an article a while ago that they are beasts to shoot down.

[Dawn Patrol]

Thank you for all the tips.

Certainly, I think I'm going to expanded on the planes I have and add in a couple of two-seaters (one on either side).

I like the idea of the bombers, but they are a bit pricey and I seem to recall reading an article a while ago that they are beasts to shoot down.

Two seat fighters (Sopwith 1.5 Strutter and Bristol F2.b) and German CL ground attack planes are pretty aggressive, since they have the Immelmann turn, and the Hanover has sharp left and right turns. But the planes often referred to as “flying targets” are not incapable - they just tend to be slow and not particularly maneuverable - but they have that gunner with a wide angle of fire. And God forbid that you are up against an Dh.4 one on one with two guns up front, and two with the gunner. They are just mission based planes (photograph area Y, bomb area Z). They need to accomplish their mission to win, while the other side needs to shoot them down to stop them from fulfilling their mission (hence, “flying targets”). Slow is good from a gaming standpoint, since the fighters can actually catch back up to them and keep a game of it. Mission based scenarios add depth to the game - I love Flying, Fickle, Furballs of Fate (Cue the Rowan and Martin Laugh-In-Track), but these give some variety.

[zenlizard]

I like the idea of the bombers, but they are a bit pricey and I seem to recall reading an article a while ago that they are beasts to shoot down.

They are, on the whole, more expensive than the single-engine aircraft, but the difference *usually* isn't a matter of desirability. It's more that the single-engine single-seaters, the single-engine tandems, and the larger bombers each follow their own price line, with the rule being that the more spectacular or longer out-of-print aircraft in each price line being the more expensive.

As far as the bigger bombers being more difficult to shoot down, that's yes, and artifact of them being generally built more robustly: but unless you modify the rules (and I would say, the majority of us here on the forums do modify the rules in some way for the big bombers), the boom card always lurks...

[Naharaht]

If you expand your air fleet and hold larger combats, you may find that you need more damage decks, Jon. One damage deck is generally considered to be enough for four machines firing that class of guns. If you need extra control panels, there are a number of good designs in the Files section, which you could download and print off.

[Brengun]

You may find this page on Wikipedia gives a glimpse of what was flying at the same time,
‘List of World War I aces credited with 20 or more victories.’
The biogs are interesting in themselves, to me anyway starting from pretty much scratch, giving information on what aircraft was being flown and what type their kills were and even better some of the British pilots have a list of each kill and date what aircraft was involved, ie Mannock, McCudden and Albert Ball to name three.

[Fix]

Thank you for all the tips.
Certainly, I think I'm going to expanded on the planes I have and add in a couple of two-seaters (one on either side).
I like the idea of the bombers, but they are a bit pricey and I seem to recall reading an article a while ago that they are beasts to shoot down.

At first, I went with one plane of each type, my frist 4 planes of WWI were a Dr.I, an Albatros D.II, a Snipe and a Spad. When I expanded my collection, I wanted to have at least two of each type so I could fly more "realistic" battles, like squadron against squadron. I would suggest you keep that in mind. If you like a plane, consider having 2 or even 4 of the same type.
Nowadays, I have over 100 planes and the only solo plane I have is a Staaken... which technically I don't have yet. Two more days I will get it as a birthday present...

[Sam Urai]

I do not have good advice on how you could go about expanding your collection. For me, i am trying to get a broad, historical, representation of planes for both Central and Allied planes. I have recently bought 3 Rumpler 2-Seaters - just so i could have a flight of them... i am interested in painting them up in "unique" colors (as opposed to historical representation).

I also mostly play Central planes - but i am still pretty new to the game - but i am completely hooked.

[OldGuy59]

When I was introduced to this game, it was after Nexus folded, and just as Ares picked it up. There was still a few bits and pieces of the Wings of War game in little shops around the country, but nothing consistent, nor did this allow for picking and choosing.

Also, I had no knowledge of the timeline of aircraft development, and what plane would pair up in combat, relative to what WoW/WoG planes were available. As far as I can figure out, Ares doesn't release planes based on any historical timeline, nor theatre of operation, making choosing combat-opponent planes confusing.

The advice of grabbing anything you can is probably the best, but won't result in historical battles. It will still be a lot of fun.

If you are interested in the historical timeline thing, I came up with this: General Overview of WWI Miniatures - Timeline and Theaters 2017

[Stumptonian]

You may find this page on Wikipedia gives a glimpse of what was flying at the same time,
‘List of World War I aces credited with 20 or more victories.’
The biogs are interesting in themselves, to me anyway starting from pretty much scratch, giving information on what aircraft was being flown and what type their kills were and even better some of the British pilots have a list of each kill and date what aircraft was involved, ie Mannock, McCudden and Albert Ball to name three.

Thanks for that, Brendan.

HERE is the hyperllnk

[Dawn Patrol]

If you are interested in the historical timeline thing, I came up with this: General Overview of WWI Miniatures - Timeline and Theaters 2017

The trouble I have with this (and it might well be just me) is that your times as listed are incomprehensible (well, to me). It’s in one line all smooshed together. If I may suggest, use separate lines. Yes, it takes up more lines, but it would be less challenging visually.

Operational: Name of month, year.
Second Line: Name of month, year.
Retired from active service: Name of month, year.

“1916(02)02-1917(07)10”

I can’t decipher that. Yes, I know the color didn’t come across, but it is still just confusing to me.

[monse]

Concerning the number of miniatures on the playing area, contrary to X-Wing in which spaceships don’t overlap, a large number of planes can lead to more overlapping situations.

I encourage playing different type of planes for each side, to avoid mixing the maneuver cards in case two or more planes of the same type are used (by example two Camels manned by one or two players of the same side).
Indeed, it can be a real mess during the game if two planes with the same maneuvers deck get their cards mixed.
Except if the maneuvers cards have been edited in the Wings of War version and in the Wings of Glory version, as they are graphically different.

Here is a report (translated from French) during a game when a mixing case occurred.
https://ludiquementparlant.wordpress...ings-of-glory/
And it led to the loss of a plane which became difficult to maneuver as some of its cards got in another deck :

Second weapon pass. No sudden explosion in the sky, the first exchanges of fire are from the front. Von Richtoffen is wounded! Hell and damnation! Fate is biting him hard! Lothar by a skillful maneuver of tight turns finds himself well positioned to chase one of the Spads. Feeling the danger, Mr. Kill makes him accelerate towards the edge of the table. He tries to outrun me and then makes an Immelman and comes face to face to open fire with his machine guns. Bad luck, he misses his maneuver and goes out of the game board! The coward, he got scared, he fled the fight !!!! I find myself in numerical superiority and I feel confident.
Problem.... the maneuvers deck of my pilot Lothar doesn’t let me get his plane back to his brother, worse, I get away. The red baron in the meantime takes a fatal machine-gun shot! Riddled with bullets, his plane crashes on the ground. Time out, I check the cards. I have the right number of cards but I have shuffled their maneuver cards...the gag! Huge moment of solitude! So I put all this back on the table with my opponent Mr Kill, who shows himself chivalrous by giving me a hand. Here I go again and this time with the right game and Lothar ends up shooting down the second Spad! Victory for the Kaiser's German Empire!


For a graphic WW1 timeline that can be checked in a few seconds, you can use this one (made by a member of the Aerodrome, Sir_erickson)
High definition on this link : http://merlindex.free.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/chronologie.pdf

[Vagabond]

I encourage playing different type of planes for each side, to avoid mixing the maneuver cards in case two or more planes of the same type are used (by example two Camels manned by one or two players of the same side).
Indeed, it can be a real mess during the game if two planes with the same maneuvers deck get their cards mixed.
Except if the maneuvers cards have been edited in the Wings of War version and in the Wings of Glory version, as they are graphically different.

For a graphic WW1 timeline that can be checked in a few seconds, you can use this one (made by a member of the Aerodrome, Sir_erickson)
High definition on this link : http://merlindex.free.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/chronologie.pdf

Monse, that is excellent
Thanks

[Spad VII]

Nice Time Line WW1
Thanks monse

[CanonFodder]

Thank you monse, this is very helpful for me.

When I first bought the game, the shop was doing a 3 for 2, so I grabbed those planes that I liked the look of, making sure that I had 3 allied and 3 central. Luckily, I managed to pick planes that are fairly balanced, so I've not experienced any one-sided games. So I think I may stick with this 1917-1918 time period for my next purchases.

[CanonFodder]

It is a worry that cards and decks become mixed in a game with a lot of planes. In X-Wing, it's not sure a problem due to the movement dialls. Occasionally, someone uses the wrong dial for a ship but it's usually spotted and rectified quickly. In the last game I played before lockdown, against just a single oppoent with two planes each, trying to keep track of the cards was a problem. But I still crave a massed battle so will have to work out a system that would allow this to happen. Still, first things first, I have to fully equip my squadrons

[monse]

If you are used to the practical X-Wing maneuvers dial, the management of the WOG maneuvers cards can become a burden.
A card holder helps viewing the available cards of each deck, before planning.
It is easier for newcommers, but I also use it for myself and my game partners as we find them more practical in order to find easily the cards needed during the game.
At the end of the game, the cards are already classified, for the next game.

More information about it in this album : https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/al...p?albumid=4166

[Von Scharf]

I agree with you, Monse... I prefer card holders for keeping things organized and helping me string together a good 3 card move. I've finally found a model I really like: Maddak 15-inch Playing Card Holder. It's transparent acrylic so I can see all of the card. Damn near tip proof, as I'm also rather clumsy. Two rows of them will hold 20 maneuver cards. Here is a pic of an 18 card Halberstadt deck in the holders.



Excuse the zombies on the workbench. There are ALWAYS zombies on my workbench! I've got 35 more to paint. I swear I'm just throwing paint and wash on them willy nilly at this point as I just want this slog of painting 380 zombies TO BE OVER. Sorry... I feel better now.

[monse]

Great Maddak Card Holder.
If you don’t have enough cards holders, cards of same types can be grouped together (straight, turn, sideslip).
Is the Maddak Card Holder large enough to hold two or three cards behind each other ?

[Von Scharf]

Great Maddak Card Holder.
If you don’t have enough cards holders, cards of same types can be grouped together (straight, turn, sideslip).
Is the Maddak Card Holder large enough to hold two or three cards behind each other ?

3 cards behind each other was no problem for the Maddak Card Holder. The opening is definitely wide enough and is flared out at the top so it is almost impossible to miss when you are inserting cards. The base has a storage area in the front. It has a lip on it to keep things in place. I believe it is intended for a pencil, but it holds tokens, smoke and flame makers just fine too.

I ordered mine from Amazon (what doesn't come from Amazon now?) as a 4 pack.

[malachi]

I like the display and readability of the card holders but the poker player in me can't abide them I don't want my opponent glancing over to see what cards are missing and therefore planned, even if inadvertent. And if I'm playing across the table from you even with the card backs facing me, I may deduce that you like to organize your straights on the upper left and your sideslips on the bottom row, for example.

[Flying Helmut]

I like the display and readability of the card holders but the poker player in me can't abide them I don't want my opponent glancing over to see what cards are missing and therefore planned, even if inadvertent. And if I'm playing across the table from you even with the card backs facing me, I may deduce that you like to organize your straights on the upper left and your sideslips on the bottom row, for example.

"You don't play the cards in your hand, you play the guy opposite you".

[Von Scharf]

Pre-COVID, I used to play cards... Bridge, Euchre, Texas Hold "Em, even Spades and Hearts. Sometimes (OK, almost always) a friendly stake might be in play. When I pick up my dealt cards, I glance at the second hand of my watch. It tells me how to group my suits. Whether it is approaching 15, 30, 45 or 60 seconds dictates which suit goes on the left of my hand. Then I alternate colors from there. I don't group by rank within the suit at all. Precisely to keep tricky people like YOU from inferring anything when I play a card from either end of my hand!

You are correct though. I am familiar with a player who I KNOW FOR A FACT organizes their cards from high card on the left to low card on the right, with diamonds on the left, then spades, then hearts, then clubs. Every time. A weirdo friend of mine doesn't group his cards at all, and he's a wickedly good card player.

To bring this back to Wings... I'm very much a novice player. In fact, I only picked this game up in January 2020. So I got a grand total of 3 games in before we went all lockdown. I have yet to even shoot down an opponent. Basically, I'm terrible. Mostly because Oberst Hajj was at the table flaming me with disturbing regularity. (He once shot me down piloting an SE5a that had a stuck rudder and could only turn right. Embarrassing...) My secondary problem seems to be grabbing a card that turns me in the wrong direction from what I intended. I seem to be spatially challenged! In fact, I'm no longer sure why I enjoy this game!

So a card holder really helps me pick the intended series of moves. But I'm definitely going to be mixing up my WoG card organization now!

[malachi]

Fair. I hope we can play in person one day, Jeff, the meta-game will be hilarious.

[Von Scharf]

Fair. I hope we can play in person one day, Jeff, the meta-game will be hilarious.

OH, Princess Bride battle of the wits reference! Well played sir. well played.

I won't be able to attend Origins this year, as it occurs during some of my pent up international travel plans. But I can damn near guarantee Origins 2022 and perhaps some of the other 2022 main events out East! Our flight paths may well cross.

[milcoll73]

Pre-COVID, I used to play cards... Bridge, Euchre, Texas Hold "Em, even Spades and Hearts. Sometimes (OK, almost always) a friendly stake might be in play. When I pick up my dealt cards, I glance at the second hand of my watch. It tells me how to group my suits. Whether it is approaching 15, 30, 45 or 60 seconds dictates which suit goes on the left of my hand. Then I alternate colors from there. I don't group by rank within the suit at all. Precisely to keep tricky people like YOU from inferring anything when I play a card from either end of my hand!

You are correct though. I am familiar with a player who I KNOW FOR A FACT organizes their cards from high card on the left to low card on the right, with diamonds on the left, then spades, then hearts, then clubs. Every time. A weirdo friend of mine doesn't group his cards at all, and he's a wickedly good card player.

To bring this back to Wings... I'm very much a novice player. In fact, I only picked this game up in January 2020. So I got a grand total of 3 games in before we went all lockdown. I have yet to even shoot down an opponent. Basically, I'm terrible. Mostly because Oberst Hajj was at the table flaming me with disturbing regularity. (He once shot me down piloting an SE5a that had a stuck rudder and could only turn right. Embarrassing...) My secondary problem seems to be grabbing a card that turns me in the wrong direction from what I intended. I seem to be spatially challenged! In fact, I'm no longer sure why I enjoy this game!

So a card holder really helps me pick the intended series of moves. But I'm definitely going to be mixing up my WoG card organization now!

i always mix my completed maneuvers back in my deck lest close observers see my playing a maneuver i just played.

im slightly dyslexic so i have a similar problem with mixing up turns with the other direction. this has gone so far as me double checking my plot, seeing that i apparently messed up and switching out a turn in the other direction before i commit to a plot only to find out that it is the wrong turn and id plotted the correct turn 1st only to "see" that it was the wrong turn when i checked. this has led to collisions with wingmen (and we both drew boom cards from the C deck [shocker, right?]). it can be frustrating, but i still love the game none the less. guess im a glutton for punishment lol.

[john snelling]

I would go with a SPAD XIII, slightly disappointing game wise, and Fokker E.V. Also a SE5a (the best allied plane game wise) and the Pfalz D.IIIa (not a great game piece but, historical). Good luck with your gaming!! If you lived in the US I would hook you up but, customs and shipping are way to high. Ares has some aircraft in stock.

[camel crew]

have a quick look at Zaty Games. They still have some planes that are worth looking at