Flight sizes

[Sam Urai]

I have slowly been reading through a handful of 1st hand books from World War I. I finished "Winged Warfare" by Billy Bishop, I am currently reading "Fighting the Flying Circus" by Eddie Rickenbacker, and i have also finished "The Red Knight of Germany" by Floyd Gibbons. I have noticed that the general practice was that 2-Seater (Observation, Artillery, etc.) flew alone, or in pairs, and not always with fighter escorts. Bombers were a different story, although i am not entirely sure how large their formations were. Pursuit squadrons, i am still unclear about - but i have come to see that "voluntary patrols" were of almost any number, but usually between 1 and 3.

I thought i would ask you all, more seasoned pilots, for any additional insight.

[gully_raker]

I have slowly been reading through a handful of 1st hand books from World War I. I finished "Winged Warfare" by Billy Bishop, I am currently reading "Fighting the Flying Circus" by Eddie Rickenbacker, and i have also finished "The Red Knight of Germany" by Floyd Gibbons. I have noticed that the general practice was that 2-Seater (Observation, Artillery, etc.) flew alone, or in pairs, and not always with fighter escorts. Bombers were a different story, although i am not entirely sure how large their formations were. Pursuit squadrons, i am still unclear about - but i have come to see that "voluntary patrols" were of almost any number, but usually between 1 and 3.

I thought i would ask you all, more seasoned pilots, for any additional insight.

John as the war progressed the numbers in flights/ patrols/bombing missions increased reaching the largest numbers in 1918. Both British Squadron Flights & Jasta patrols could number from 4 to 8 in mid '18 with the Germans often combining Jastas to combat British Bombing & Strafing missions. One book I would recommend that is not extra expensive is "Aces Falling" by Peter Hart which covers the 1918 period very well.

[malachi]

John, a lot to delve into there, but generally for western front the number of planes in flights increased as the war progressed, production ramped up, and more pilots were trained. Tactics changed quite a bit for scouts -- early on the lone wolf pilot could go hunting and it was sometimes even an advantage, but later on was very risky. Since the Germans could fight a defensive war their tactics were necessarily different while Entente observation, scouts, and bombers ranged further beyond the trenches. Bombers: depends how you define them I think. The giants still were in small numbers and flights as far as I know near the end of the war but if referring to DH.4s and DH.9s for example, near the end of the war there were commonly flights of 30 or more doing long-range bombing.

If you enjoyed those books I think you'd like Wings of War, Rudolf Stark. Also for general history I'd recommend The Friendless Sky, McKee and/or the trilogy by Peter Hart: Somme Success, Bloody April, and Aces Falling.

[Flying Helmut]

RFC Squadrons were initially comprised of three Flights of 6 machines each.

Mechanical reliability allowing, all 6 planes from a Flight could, and did, fly sorties together.
In one infamous example, a Flight of 6 RE8 two-seaters were wiped out in a single sortie during "Bloody April" of 1917, Jasta 11 dropping 5 of them, with the only survivor being shot down by Jasta 4.

Jastas in 1916/1917 could often only send 5 - 6 planes aloft in a single patrol.
When more planes were available, 2 Kettes of 4 or 5 planes each were deployed.

[RJG173]

Early in the war German seaplanes flew single patrols, but the German Navy soon followed the Army Air Force and used patrols of three, five or seven airplanes. I have photographs showing three and five aircraft formations, but none for seven.

[Sam Urai]

One book I would recommend that is not extra expensive is "Aces Falling" by Peter Hart which covers the 1918 period very well.

...early on the lone wolf pilot could go hunting and it was sometimes even an advantage, but later on was very risky. ...Bombers: depends how you define them I think. The giants still were in small numbers and flights as far as I know near the end of the war but if referring to DH.4s and DH.9s for example, near the end of the war there were commonly flights of 30 or more doing long-range bombing.

If you enjoyed those books I think you'd like Wings of War, Rudolf Stark. Also for general history I'd recommend The Friendless Sky, McKee and/or the trilogy by Peter Hart: Somme Success, Bloody April, and Aces Falling.

RFC Squadrons were initially comprised of three Flights of 6 machines each. Mechanical reliability allowing, all 6 planes from a Flight could, and did, fly sorties together.

In one infamous example, a Flight of 6 RE8 two-seaters were wiped out in a single sortie during "Bloody April" of 1917, Jasta 11 dropping 5 of them, with the only survivor being shot down by Jasta 4.

Jastas in 1916/1917 could often only send 5 - 6 planes aloft in a single patrol.
When more planes were available, 2 Kettes of 4 or 5 planes each were deployed.

Early in the war German seaplanes flew single patrols, but the German Navy soon followed the Army Air Force and used patrols of three, five or seven airplanes. I have photographs showing three and five aircraft formations, but none for seven.

[Furiously scribbling] Thank you all for the replies.

I had thoughts about the reasons of why so many, if not all, of the early aces, not surviving the war was the lack of adjusting to the changing aerial tactics as they evolved. I am not certain about that. It's just a thought.

I have written down ALL of the book referrals. I do not sit to read as often as i really want to.

[zenlizard]

It must also be remembered that in several national organizations, "Flight" is an administrative unit, whereas in others it is a mission organization, and frequently, the idea of "flight" was both.
A mission might be performed by one or more aircraft flying the main mission, e. g. photographic reconnaissance, with perhaps a supporting flight, e. g. escorting fighters, with possibly other individual aircraft, flights, or squadrons offering more indirect support, e. g. offensive patrols to try and intercept the other side's interceptors before the latter can even get to the main mission bodies. As has been pointed out, the planning and execution of such missions tended to get larger and more elaborate later in the war.

[camel crew]

I came into this game thinking a flight of 3 aircraft of the ones I wanted would be nice - which has now increased to flights of 5 now also includes planes I didn't know I wanted Looking in the history books, I'm seeing rows of 10-12+ aircraft preparing to take off. I think trying to be historically accurate would cost a fortune and would result in me having to find a new squadron mrs cc would not be happy

[Sam Urai]

It must also be remembered that in several national organizations, "Flight" is an administrative unit, whereas in others it is a mission organization, and frequently, the idea of "flight" was both.
A mission might be performed by one or more aircraft flying the main mission, e. g. photographic reconnaissance, with perhaps a supporting flight, e. g. escorting fighters, with possibly other individual aircraft, flights, or squadrons offering more indirect support, e. g. offensive patrols to try and intercept the other side's interceptors before the latter can even get to the main mission bodies. As has been pointed out, the planning and execution of such missions tended to get larger and more elaborate later in the war.

That is the "trouble" with language. Especially English (i think)... multiple uses and definitions for words.

It is quite evident that the later in the war, the larger the "flights" were , and more complex in their planning and execution.

[Sam Urai]

I came into this game thinking a flight of 3 aircraft of the ones I wanted would be nice - which has now increased to flights of 5 now also includes planes I didn't know I wanted Looking in the history books, I'm seeing rows of 10-12+ aircraft preparing to take off. I think trying to be historically accurate would cost a fortune and would result in me having to find a new squadron mrs cc would not be happy

Yeah... um... my Flight "Commander" has similar concerns.

I am just, you know... thinking... yeah... (putting the credit card away... for now)

[malachi]

I came into this game thinking a flight of 3 aircraft of the ones I wanted would be nice - which has now increased to flights of 5 now also includes planes I didn't know I wanted Looking in the history books, I'm seeing rows of 10-12+ aircraft preparing to take off. I think trying to be historically accurate would cost a fortune and would result in me having to find a new squadron mrs cc would not be happy

I hear ya, Iain Although it's cool when entire squadrons/Jastas are completed, a few representative planes from a unit I think are also great since thankfully we can only handle a certain number of planes on the table at any given time anyway.

[camel crew]

I've done a few 3 v 3. I did a 3 v 4 and was praying that someone got shot down quickly or flew off the board so I think a 5 v 5 solo may remain in the back of my mind for a while

[Sam Urai]

I've done a few 3 v 3. I did a 3 v 4 and was praying that someone got shot down quickly or flew off the board so I think a 5 v 5 solo may remain in the back of my mind for a while

Expecting a detailed AAR.

[VonWreckedoften]

Taking the tactics thing a stage further, how did each nation "bed in" new pilots? You read all sorts of horror stories about the life expectancy of, say, a new RFC pilot, but did the French and Germans have the same problems. How did they "blood" new....errr.....blood?

[Baxter]

The Germans used newly trained pilots too later in the war and they did not usually last long because they lacked situational awareness and marksmanship. The best replacements for the Jastas were deemed to be 2 seater pilots who transferred to fighters. I read somewhere that in the RFC the new pilots were told to dive and stay underneath the rest of the flight in a dogfight.

Not sure about the French or Russians.