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Thread: Very Important Announcement about International orders.

  1. #1

    Default Very Important Announcement about International orders.

    I wanted to give all of my international customers some information on some major changes coming to the Aerodrome Store. Since different countries are effected differently, I will break this post down into country groups to hopefully make it easier for everyone to understand how they are impacted by it.

    United Kingdom
    On January 1st, 2021 the portion of the Brexit concerning VAT applied to orders place from companies outside the UK goes into effect. These new changes would require me to create an account with HM Revenue and Customs and collect the VAT taxes on all orders and remit them to the HMRC every three months along with all kinds of paperwork supporting those sales. As such, effective immediately, I will no longer shipping orders to the UK. It is simply too much administrative effort for me to deal with on the very slim margins I have on my products. I am very sorry to my loyal UK customers for the sudden change, but I just became aware of it myself this morning.

    I want to thank each and every one of you for all of the support over the years. This is a sad day for us both


    EU Countries
    The same writing is on the wall for all of the countries in the EU, except the VAT changes do not take place until July 1st 2021. I will continue to except and process orders to you guys and gals until the end of June. After that I will no longer be excepting orders from EU countries.


    Canada, Australia, and all other countries
    It is business as usual for you guys for the foreseeable future. I believe that at some point in the future all other countries will follow the lead of the UK and EU and make a grab for additional taxes as well.



    If you have any questions, please post them here and I will try and answer them the best that I can.

  2. #2

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    Ouch on many ends! Sounds like a massive headache.

  3. #3

    Boney10's Avatar South Western Command Squadron Leader.
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    Damn shame, thanks for all the past orders Keith

  4. #4

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    Oh. no!

    I always looked forward eagerly to receiving Aerodrome Accessories orders!

    Bugger.

    Well, so long, Keith, and thanks for all the fish.
    I'll have to treat my existing AA products with a bit more care in future.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  5. #5

    Guntruck's Avatar Central England Command Squadron Leader & Librarian
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    Keith, you are not the first to stop trading with the U.K. because of this. I'm guessing that AIM might do the same which, with both of you gone (to us Brits anyway), will be a major tragedy.

    OK, business as usual for Canada?. Hmm, might need to talk to my cousin in Ottawa, prime her to expect some unexpected parcels. It's crazy, but it might just work.

    If it doesn't, then whenever Tim goes over to Origins, he'd better take several empty suitcases with him.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  6. #6

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    What a shame. But I am sure that our friends across the pond will help out their fellow flyers if they need some of the excellent Aerodrome Accessories products.

  7. #7

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    That doesn't sound right Keith, you should check that out.
    We pay applicable local taxes to you when we buy then our VAT & Customs duty when ordered goods arrive in the UK.
    Think you might be confusing posting goods with importing goods & the new UK Global Tariff (UKGT) which is a whole different thing.

    HMRC page: Tax and customs for goods sent from abroad - Overview -
    Anything posted or couriered to you goes through customs to check it isn’t banned or restricted and you pay the right tax and ‘duty’ (customs charges) on it.
    This includes anything new or used that you:
    buy online
    buy abroad and send back to the UK
    receive as a gift

    - Your responsibilities -
    You may have to pay VAT, Customs Duty or Excise Duty on goods sent from outside the European Union (EU) before you can collect them.

    You’ll be contacted by Royal Mail, Parcelforce or the courier company explaining how to pay any VAT, duty and fees for dealing with customs.
    You pay VAT on goods sent from non-European Union (EU) countries and EU special territories (eg the Canary Islands) if they’re:

    gifts worth more than £39
    other goods worth more than £15
    alcohol, tobacco products and fragrances (eg perfume, eau de toilette and cologne) of any value
    You’ll be charged at the VAT rate that applies to your goods. VAT is charged on the total value, including:
    the price paid for the goods / postage, packaging and insurance / any duty you owe. (no custom duty under £135)

    So pretty much the same as before.

    "He is wise who watches"

  8. #8

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    This something we all should have seen coming. Mail order businesses and the people using them have been shopping online and dodging taxes that brick and mortar stores cannot.

    It has been a hot button topic in Canada for those paying attention, but Amazon and others are not paying any taxes in Canada, despite having a huge economic footprint. This is mitigated somewhat by Canada Border Services applying fondling fees at the border, but it really doesn't provide any corporate tax income from online service providers.

    This doesn't help us in any way, and as this thread shows, the tax burden is not just money, but the tracking and collection of taxes is expensive, too.

    Darn.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  9. #9

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    There's even more sad news coming today - BSG is being discontinued
    Last edited by David Manley; 12-30-2020 at 00:23.

  10. #10

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    I can see a new "black market" in Aerodrome goods springing up once air travel kicks in again and visitorsto the US can bring stuff back - for their own use, of course

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    There's even more sad news coming today - BSG us being discontinued
    WHAT ??? I haven’t even started on it yet... that’s dreadful news. I assume you have this from a reliable source.

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  12. #12

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    It is posted on Ares website.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    WHAT ??? I haven’t even started on it yet... that’s dreadful news. I assume you have this from a reliable source.
    Oh hang on, just read the story on the ARES website, that’s really crap news.

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    WHAT ??? I haven’t even started on it yet... that’s dreadful news. I assume you have this from a reliable source.
    Of course, I don't just make this **** up you know

  15. #15

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    Lol never suggested you did sir, was thinking you had an inside track on the latest news.....

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    Lol never suggested you did sir, was thinking you had an inside track on the latest news.....
    Facebook Intelligence Agency

  17. #17

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    I know nothing of this Facebook of which you speak, mayhaps it is some wizardry...

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  18. #18

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    Nice one Brexit !!!!!


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  19. #19

  20. #20

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    So we will need bigger suitcases then, and what about us who are addicted, are there allowances for medicinal uses? Three to four minis a day sez my prescription - I will need to bring many on any over the boarder trips . . . 2021 will be even more interesting than 2020 then . . . I may need to retire to keep up as well!

  21. #21

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    Sorry to hear that Keith but thanks for past orders.
    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. Winston S. Churchill

  22. #22

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    Default

    Keith, thank you for the heads up. Since I noticed your post, I've been trying to find additional information. This is the the most definitive information I could find.


    For orders under GBP135 - In order to do business with customers in the UK, the UK requires me (business in the US) to register w/the UK, collect the UK VAT (point of sale VAT collection), and submit the VAT to the UK.

    I believe I am in the same boat. Kevin

  23. #23

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    Australia already does the same thing. It has done for a while.
    However, overseas businesses doing less than $20,000 of orders to Australia annually are exempt, due to the prohibitive overheads involved.

  24. #24

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    Herr Oberst,

    especially in my early years here the AA was my first adress for orders, especially for the new upcoming models. I get the new releases often weeks & month before they hit the shelves in the stores in Germany. Meanwhilte the different publishing dates in the US & the EU do not differ so much, so it is a sad but not too sad news that the AA will not ship to the EU in mid 2021 anymore.

    I fully understand if this procedure is to complicated & time consuming to handle by the way, especially if we know that you run the forum and the store in your spare time between a demanding job and a beloved family with all the daily challenges.

    So it's definitely the right decision.

    Thank you very much for all the work and great service to Germany, so far.
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Nice one Brexit !!!!!
    Not a Brexit thing if the EU is doing the same, apart from the UK being affected 6 months earlier
    Last edited by David Manley; 12-30-2020 at 00:24.

  26. #26

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    This year just gets better and better, If I move to the Moon will that make a difference?

  27. #27

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    Found it - the other bit I found must be going ood on 31st.

    VAT and overseas goods sold to customers in the UK using online marketplaces from 1 January 2021
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-...1-january-2021

    VAT and overseas goods sold directly to customers in the UK from 1 January 2021
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-...1-january-2021

    This will put a crimp in things

    "He is wise who watches"

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I want to thank each and every one of you for all of the support over the years. This is a sad day for us both
    EU Countries
    The same writing is on the wall for all of the countries in the EU, except the VAT changes do not take place until July 1st 2021. I will continue to except and process orders to you guys and gals until the end of June. After that I will no longer be excepting orders from EU countries.
    Wow, as if 2020 couldn't get any worse... but the reasons should be clear to us.
    I will definitely order some more stuff before June, 30th to avoid beeing thirsty on dry land...

  29. #29

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    That's one hell of a shame Keith. So sad to hear this news. Like everyone else here, I looked forward to any shipments from you. Thanks a bundle for all your past help and I sincerely hope it doesn't impact adversely on your own future.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    Australia already does the same thing. It has done for a while.
    However, overseas businesses doing less than $20,000 of orders to Australia annually are exempt, due to the prohibitive overheads involved.
    I can envision the UK waking up some day and realizing they need the same type of threshold to avoid their own administrative complexities. Though having worked as a contractor for the US government for multiple decades, governments rarely move quickly.

    Even though this is technically a 2021 effectivity, I'm still going to allocate it to 2020 as yet another reason to despise this year. Oh, and yesterday the first COVID variant was confirmed in the US. Right here in my home state of Colorado. Sigh...
    “Fly fast - take chances!”

  31. #31

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    I'm sure we can, to some degree, work around this. I'll bet there are a few of us more than willing to send, (ahem), 'gifts' to our British allies when needed.

  32. #32

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    Offers may have been received already.................
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  33. #33

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    I offer to help get any wanted items to those in need.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    This something we all should have seen coming. Mail order businesses and the people using them have been shopping online and dodging taxes that brick and mortar stores cannot.

    It has been a hot button topic in Canada for those paying attention, but Amazon and others are not paying any taxes in Canada, despite having a huge economic footprint. This is mitigated somewhat by Canada Border Services applying fondling fees at the border, but it really doesn't provide any corporate tax income from online service providers.

    This doesn't help us in any way, and as this thread shows, the tax burden is not just money, but the tracking and collection of taxes is expensive, too.

    Darn.
    The discussion here is about new rules for VAT / sales taxes; income tax is a separate issue. Based on my orders Amazon (Canada) does indeed collect and pay sales tax and Amazon (US) collects an 'import' fee. With 3rd party sellers, Amazon collects sales tax for the seller but does not submit the tax to the government that is the responsibility of the 3rd party seller.

    As for Amazon not paying income tax or specifically income tax in Canada, that's false information. Amazon (Canada) is registered to do business in Canada which they must do as they have facilities in Canada and employ workers in Canada. The have a huge facility here in Ottawa.

    From the Amazon annual statement:

    "Income tax expense includes U.S. (federal and state) and foreign income taxes." For their year ending 31 January 2020, they paid income tax of $2.4 billion. They only break it down by US and international. About half was international. Specifically what the paid in Canada would depend on whether or not Canadian operations had positive or negative net income; regardless they do have a tax obligation. It used to be that Amazon didn't pay income tax because Amazon's net income was negative due to the operating expenses it incurred as it grew its operations.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I offer to help get any wanted items to those in need.
    Thank you Peter

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Found it - the other bit I found must be going ood on 31st.

    VAT and overseas goods sold to customers in the UK using online marketplaces from 1 January 2021
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-...1-january-2021

    VAT and overseas goods sold directly to customers in the UK from 1 January 2021
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-...1-january-2021

    This will put a crimp in things
    On that link, Dave, I noticed this:

    "HMRC’s definition of an online marketplace is a business using a website or mobile phone app (such as a marketplace, platform or portal) to handle the sale of goods to customers which meets all of the following conditions:

    in any way sets the terms and conditions on how goods are supplied to the customer
    is involved in any way in authorising or facilitating customers’ payments
    is involved in the ordering or delivery of the goods"

    It's worth inquiring about the last item when postal / courier services deliver the goods to see if a company that sends goods by such a service is "involved in the...delivery of the goods".

    In Canada if you're importing by mail or courier for you're supposed to pay sales tax if the value is greater than $20. Duty has a higher threshold but it depends on legislation / trade agreements. This is collected and submitted by the postal / courier service. This is assessed by customs and collected by the postal/courier agent. In practice the limit is much higher as it costs more to collect than the value collected but that's at the discretion of the customs service.

    If the UK and the EU don't do something similar I can see some some push back by other countries. It was an issue in the recent US-Canada-Mexico trade discussions. The US wanted much higher minimum thresholds.

  37. #37

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    This is why companies like Shopify are doing well. A Shopify article:

    https://www.shopify.ca/enterprise/wh...-for-ecommerce

    It does appear like the business and not the postal / courier service is responsible but who knows....$101 billion is a fair bit of money.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix View Post
    Wow, as if 2020 couldn't get any worse... but the reasons should be clear to us.
    I will definitely order some more stuff before June, 30th to avoid beeing thirsty on dry land...
    On a positive side, EU in its official documents promises some special scheme for sales under 150 EUR, so in the end it might not be as bad as it looks now.
    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custom...r-ecommerce_en

  39. #39

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    Easy, men...I understand Keith fully. Now the time will come to test our overseas friendship. Our pilots from U.S.A may place orders there for us. Then we will PayPal them. After all they will be sending us "gifts" in parcels.
    No problem.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    On that link, Dave, I noticed this....
    Second link covers direct sales not through online market place, so they have you either way Paul.

    "He is wise who watches"

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I'm sure we can, to some degree, work around this. I'll bet there are a few of us more than willing to send, (ahem), 'gifts' to our British allies when needed.
    I put down my recipe before reading yours, Peter. But I am afraid you forgot about minor Allies.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Not a Brexit thing if the EU is doing the same, apart from the UK being affected 6 months earlier
    But it triggered the effect.
    This is how international western cooperation is crumbling in the interest of you-know-whom.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Rolf View Post
    Thank you Peter
    That is very magnanimous of you Peter.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  44. #44

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    I offer to help get any wanted items to those in need.
    Peter, you're a star

  45. #45

  46. #46

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    Thanks Pete. Will keep you in mind if I need any "presents"

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Second link covers direct sales not through online market place, so they have you either way Paul.
    So it does, Dave. The strange thing is that it seems to me that Amazon and other online market places are the motivation for these changes but the rules actually strengthen the competitive position of those companies as they have the resources to accommodate the rules. Small companies that have always (I.e., pre-internet) sold directly and sent goods by post will either not sell or be forced into the arms of the big online market places. So bad for small companies and bad for customer choice. Only bureaucrats could dream this up.

  48. #48

  49. #49

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    I am sorry for the unfortunate change of circumstances for our friends and allies across the pond. Another gut punch from this horrible year of 2020.

    I also am saddened about the cancellation of BSG. It sounds like Ares is losing a good chunk of money they already invested on the next expansions. Hopefully, this doesn’t pull too many resources from the other game lines or scuttle the company’s ability to conduct business.

    As newer releases for our Wings games become reality, I would consider helping a friend or two across the pond get their stuff from Keith. I would not have the Miniature collection I do without the generous help of friends both here in the States and internationally over the years. I mostly lurk these days on these forums, as life is generally so busy I don’t have time to post often. However, my obsession for both versions of Wings, the history, the planes, and the pilots remains as strong as ever. Fair skies and stay safe! I will revisit this topic about helping out friends across the pond later in 2021 when new product becomes available.

  50. #50

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    Many thanks for everything you have done thus far Keith, it’s a real but understandable shame that you can’t continue. I’m sure Peter will have lots of takers.

    As an aside, has anyone got any GOOD NEWS because, god knows we would all love to share that?

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

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