Surprise Attack

**VieuxCharles** · 12-29-2020 06:53

Hi everyone, I have a question has anybody got any ideas for a situation in which:
- An aircraft attacks another out of the sun without being spotted.
- And the attacking aircraft remains unspotted even after it's initial attack, for a time.

The idea came to me after watching a digital recreation of Eddie Rickenbackers attack on a formation of 7 aircraft (2 two-seaters+5 fokker DVII) on the 25.9.1918.

here's the link: ACE of ACES America s Greatest Dogfights 720p b57d9e8c 1e36 4972 bcfd 1a8766345649

Any thoughts

Cheers Alex

**flash** · 12-29-2020 07:37

Yes - I use it as a standard intro to WoG at game shows.
The basic game uses a recon flying stall/straight/stall - the gunner is busy with the camera - the scouts unseen are in position just out of range.
The stalls flown by the recon ensure there is a chance of the scouts getting into range & opening fire with a free shot (as the gunner is on the camera) - they may get a second shot (+1) that move, though the gunner will return fire. In the next turn the recon will run for home - off to the right or left - depending on set up but when it turns (ie the phase) is not known. I use scouts and recons of the same speed so if the recon gives them the slip the scouts will not catch up. It's designed to give noobs a chance to win as well as a challenge...

Though the recon does win on occasion...

https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...019-At-Newbury

I have done the same recently bouncing scouts but it is all reliant on the scenario set up, relative speeds of the models involved. This is one of the examples I posted in the AAR sub-forum:

https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-Lothar-Again-!

**VieuxCharles** · 12-29-2020 08:36

Ok so it basically gives the scout a free shot before the gunner realises he's there and starts shooting in his direction.

Does the same apply for fighters or do you just use 3 straights seeing as a scout (as far as I know) can't take pictures?

**VieuxCharles** · 12-29-2020 08:37

NIce planes by the way

**flash** · 12-29-2020 10:19

Thanks Alexander; you can make things work however you like if you write the scenario !
For instance when bouncing scouts you can have the targets randomly plot straights /sideslips for the first turn & give your attackers free reign, or, you can give the targets reaction times based on how you like or pilot experience if in a campaign situation - eg -
A rookie pilot may have to fly three cards before he reacts next turn
An experienced pilot has to fly one straight/sideslip first move (with the expectation of him getting shot up that phase) but can then break whichever way he likes the next two moves so he may avoid a second helping.
A veteran/ace pilot may react immediately in the hope of avoiding the contact.
The key is that the models must be in range after the first move - so you have to work that out - using stalls can help with that.

Scouts did sometimes take pics / make recce observations / direct artillery so you can factor that in.

**VieuxCharles** · 12-30-2020 09:21

I'll try it out at my next game, thanks for the advice.
Cheers Alex

**fox** · 12-30-2020 11:55

hello
this is a game we played during our campaign.

Duel in the sun:

Your patrol has been surprised by the enemy hunt. They hit you in the sun.
X hunters in the middle of the table. X enemy fighters one strip behind (out of range).
The pursued planes take damage A before the start of the game, can immediately make an immelman
If an attacker's target is between him and the sun (draw a straight line between the attacker and the target up to the sun) and is shot at, the attacked pilot can then draw one more cards than normally and choose one that he puts back in the damage deck and shuffles this one.

**VieuxCharles** · 12-30-2020 13:37

Thanks for the input Fox. I'll try this one out as well!!

**fox** · 12-31-2020 08:12

I forget the second part

Advantage for the target

If an attacker's target is between him and the sun (draw a straight line between the attacker and the target up to the sun) and is shot at, the target pilot can then draw one more cards than normally and choose one that he puts back in the damage deck and shuffles this one.

Advantage for the attacker
If an attacker is between the sun and his target( advantage for attacker) ,the attacker draw two or three cards ( depending on the distance) and give to the defenser the worst card(s)

**VieuxCharles** · 01-01-2021 06:44

Oh okay, so not only does the sun "blind" the attacker (in one case), but also the target (in another)!!
That's also a good one.
Thanks again Alex

PS: Just checking "cible" means target in french right?

**hokusai** · 01-01-2021 07:42

Originally Posted by fox

I forget the second part

Advantage for the target

If an attacker's target is between him and the sun (draw a straight line between the attacker and the target up to the sun) and is shot at, the target pilot can then draw one more cards than normally and choose one that he puts back in the damage deck and shuffles this one.

Advantage for the attacker
If an attacker is between the sun and his target( advantage for attacker) ,the attacker draw two or three cards ( depending on the distance) and give to the defenser the worst card(s)

How does this work out in practice?

1) Draw a line between attacker peg and target peg and extend it to the border of the table where the sun mini is placed. If the line is inside the sun disk then blinding rule applies.

or

2) Extend the firing arc to the border of the table where the sun mini is placed. If the sun is inside the arc then blinding rule applies. The sun size can be a dot here.

**fox** · 01-01-2021 09:24

For Alex :
yes "cible" mean target.
the rules applied also for rear gunner of course if there's one in your scenario

For Fabrizio:
we played with the first one ( peg to peg to the sun mini)
You can see the AAR here
It was fun and added "reality" flavor to the game
https://lesnerviens.1fr1.net/t558-ca...au-soleil#4836

**KentuckyBristle** · 08-18-2021 16:20

Originally Posted by fox

I forget the second part

Advantage for the target

If an attacker's target is between him and the sun (draw a straight line between the attacker and the target up to the sun) and is shot at, the target pilot can then draw one more cards than normally and choose one that he puts back in the damage deck and shuffles this one.

Advantage for the attacker
If an attacker is between the sun and his target( advantage for attacker) ,the attacker draw two or three cards ( depending on the distance) and give to the defenser the worst card(s)

I really like the card advantage/disadvantage idea. I think the only thing I'd do differently is make "sunward" a direction. Instead of drawing a line to a single point representing the sun, I'd just make one whole edge of the game mat the sun-side. If you can draw a right angle (90 degree) from that side and it passes through one plane base to a second plane base, the second plane would have a pilot and crew who are sun-dazzled.

**Vagabond** · 08-19-2021 00:42

Fox nice idea for the sun in the game, I read your game report using google translate, it was most amusing. Very nice red and yellow albatros, was that a particular pilots colour scheme?

**fox** · 08-23-2021 11:34

hello
Mark: not a bad idea , easy way to play.
John:
The red and yellow albatros was my plane for the campaign
Otto Von Fuchs ( Fuchs mean Fox in German.)
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...Otto-Von-Fuchs