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Thread: Multiple Machine Guns

  1. #1

    Default Multiple Machine Guns

    Dumb question but I just bought a Do17z KG76 model for my Christmas present. Am I right in thinking that if 1 gunner is responsible for firing 3 guns at the rear then only 1 of those guns can fire at a time?

  2. #2

    Default

    That would seem logical... however games don't always have the strongest relationship with logic. LOL
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    .. Am I right in thinking that if 1 gunner is responsible for firing 3 guns at the rear then only 1 of those guns can fire at a time?
    Indeed Gary, not just logic but fact.

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

    Default

    There should be an insert in the box that explains the rules for multi-engined, multi-crewed aircraft. It should also come with some counters and chits.

    There will be an extra card, a 'Crew Management' card like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WGS-Luft-Do17Z-KG76-MgmtCard_Off.jpg 
Views:	50 
Size:	105.7 KB 
ID:	295448

    Using the Green counters with the faces (Presence markers), you place one on one of the positions that are "joined" by arrows, but with the same crew number (III or IV, in the case above). The Green counter indicates which arc is manned for the current turn. Normally, if you want to change arcs, the Green counter moves to the intermediate position between the two positions for one turn, and then occupies the desired position in the next turn, ready to shoot.

    Personal opinion, and subject to agreement by players before the game: For the Do.17 Rear arcs, I would say that the swap would be one turn only, as the crew member is not physically moving, only changing from one MG to another, and re-acquiring the aim point. Following fire rules (Aiming) would not apply, as the crew member is physically changing weapons and re-acquiring the target. So, no additional A Damage chits for being shot at in consecutive turns by the same gunner, if he has to swap guns/arcs.

    PS: The insert refers the reader to the Full Rulebook for the game, either the Rules and Accessories Pack or the Battle of Britain Starter Set will have the appropriate rules. But, essentially, I have paraphrased them above.

    If the plane suffers crew damage, and one of the gunners is incapacitated, you may have to fudge using Grey counters (Casualty marker) and Green (Presence) counters to cover gun arcs. I.E.: If you want to move a gunner from another arc to the Grey counter location, you move the Grey counter to an intermediate position, and then to the previously unwounded position. This represents the unwounded gunner changing positions, and leaving his previous position unmanned. Depending on the plane type, changing positions is not possible. There is also the problem of where to put the injured crewman in a very cramped cockpit, and how you climb over the poor fellow to get into his position.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 12-22-2020 at 10:35.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  5. #5

    Default

    Thank you for that complete explanation Mike. I was trying to work things out using my old Fire from the Sky rules and they did not cover this topic. I can see my new plane getting a run next Tuesday night.

  6. #6
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    There should be an insert in the box that explains the rules for multi-engined, multi-crewed aircraft. It should also come with some counters and chits.

    There will be an extra card, a 'Crew Management' card like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WGS-Luft-Do17Z-KG76-MgmtCard_Off.jpg 
Views:	50 
Size:	105.7 KB 
ID:	295448

    Using the Green counters with the faces (Presence markers), you place one on one of the positions that are "joined" by arrows, but with the same crew number (III or IV, in the case above). The Green counter indicates which arc is manned for the current turn. Normally, if you want to change arcs, the Green counter moves to the intermediate position between the two positions for one turn, and then occupies the desired position in the next turn, ready to shoot.

    Personal opinion, and subject to agreement by players before the game: For the Do.17 Rear arcs, I would say that the swap would be one turn only, as the crew member is not physically moving, only changing from one MG to another, and re-acquiring the aim point. Following fire rules (Aiming) would not apply, as the crew member is physically changing weapons and re-acquiring the target. So, no additional A Damage chits for being shot at in consecutive turns by the same gunner, if he has to swap guns/arcs.

    PS: The insert refers the reader to the Full Rulebook for the game, either the Rules and Accessories Pack or the Battle of Britain Starter Set will have the appropriate rules. But, essentially, I have paraphrased them above.

    If the plane suffers crew damage, and one of the gunners is incapacitated, you may have to fudge using Grey counters (Casualty marker) and Green (Presence) counters to cover gun arcs. I.E.: If you want to move a gunner from another arc to the Grey counter location, you move the Grey counter to an intermediate position, and then to the previously unwounded position. This represents the unwounded gunner changing positions, and leaving his previous position unmanned. Depending on the plane type, changing positions is not possible. There is also the problem of where to put the injured crewman in a very cramped cockpit, and how you climb over the poor fellow to get into his position.
    Hi Mike, any chance of you posting the crew management card for the Ju88 here as well. I would not mind seeing how the game treats the gunners in that bird too.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    Hi Mike, any chance of you posting the crew management card for the Ju88 here as well. I would not mind seeing how the game treats the gunners in that bird too.
    Initial discussions on the Ju.88 occurred here: WGSF Official Junkers Ju-88 Painting Thread

    Some of the unofficial plane cards ended up here: OldGuy59's WWII Axis Bombers & Heavy Fighters Album

    The above were before the official release of the Ares Ju.88 Special Packs. I haven't uploaded the corrected versions, as I recently upgraded to Windows 10, and a few things have gone awry, including uploading images.

    This is one of the corrected cards (I think):

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WGS-Ju88A4_102GruppoV3PlaneOfficial.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	115.3 KB 
ID:	295546
    Original 'Unofficial' Plane card can be seen here: Photo 3 from OldGuy59's WWII Italian Bombers Album
    The original 'Unofficial' Management card was not fixed, since the release, it appears.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  9. #9

    Default

    Thank you for that. Much appreciated. I have a Svezda model so was not sure about this.



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