Anyone know the Jasta 8 markings in 1916/17?

[Scacco 1]

Hi mates!

In the last weeks I'm becoming mad trying to find images or sources about the markings of Jasta 8 Albatros from very late 1916 (at the establishment the assigned aircrafts were Halberstadt D.II) when Albatros D.II could be assigned until the mid/late 1917 for the D.V....

I'm looking at this particular unit because was the first of the 2 almost resident Jasta on Flanders (the latter from late 1917 was Jasta 7 of which we are planty of sources)....

Any help from sources....links....images....pictures and so on 'll be really appreciated!

Cheers

W

[Flying Helmut]

You've picked one of the rarest ones there, Walter! Off the top of my head I only recall a single photograph.

I'll have a dig through my references when I get home from work.

[Scacco 1]

Thanks for your help!

It will be really appreciated!

Yes....this is perhaps the Jasta with less images of all....
....sig....

[Flying Helmut]

Right, first trawl........

"JASTA 8
Albatros scouts carried narrow stripes on rudder, fin and tailplane surfaces across the span and vertically up the rudder. This appears to be black on white, the white extending to cover the tail skid support."

The Jasta Pilots, 'Jasta Colours' section page 325
by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven

I seem to recall coming across a photograph of a line-up of Jasta 8 Albatros scouts, notable for the inclusion of a D.I with the expansion tank mounted ahead of the cylinders, instead of above them (this was thought to have only been tried in a single D.I , D.384/16 of the prototype batch, but that machine was supposed to have been allocated to Jasta 2, where it was frequently photographed, not Jasta 8, so there may have been more than one example).
I've had a quick skim, but can't find the photo as yet. I'll try again when I have a bit more time.

[Flying Helmut]

2nd trawl, later in the War, but possibly related.........



"Unit markings" in black and white on the tail would match the Albatros description in my "Jasta Pilots" post; it just doesn't make clear the DATE of the markings, or which Mark of Albatros.

[flash]

Leutnant Walter Göttsch was assigned to Royal Prussian Jagdstaffel 8 on 10 September 1916. This is a colourised pic of him & presumably his machine




Have a look at the link - Greg-van gives some info on his paint scheme - Göttsch used white as his kette marking - he also comments on the tail markings, suggesting if they were used they may have come later.
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=53537

[Flying Helmut]

My research into Jasta 2 leads me to believe that unit markings would not have been used in 1916, and, by extension, not on Albatros D.IIs in 1917.

Jasta 2 only started to apply its white tail markings to its Albatros D.IIIs, the first of which arrived on January 7th 1917.
Before that date, the mixed establishment of D.Is and D.IIs had no universal colour scheme or marking protocol, the machines carrying factory finish colours (for certain) possibly with some fuselage staining (unproven). The common practice of displaying the pilot's surname initial was eschewed by Boelcke, von Richthofen, Kirmaier, von Tutschek and Voss, among others, and when the letter was applied it was usually in black, thinly bordered in white, or without the white border, or (Buttner) solidly in white, and it was sometimes augmented by the second letter of the surname!

If a premier Jasta like 2 didn't apply a "squadron scheme" then it is reasonable to assume that later, non-elite Jastas didn't either.

With the ongoing programme of replacing the D.IIs with new production D.IIIs in early 1917, it is unlikely that the outgoing D.IIs would receive unit markings (since they were to be transferred out).
The D.IIIs are therefore the first reasonable candidates for the Jasta 8 black/white span-wise stripes on the tail, extending up the fin and rudder.
Unfortunately, I still haven't found any photographs of Albatros scouts displaying these markings, nor can I find any evidence for dates of application.

If I come across any further information, I'll post it here.

[Scacco 1]

Apologize for my delayed thanks for the great value of your replies and thought about!

I agree at all your consideration about the introduction of more permanent and organized markings with D.III variant from early 1917....and the speculative/undocumented reference about the tail stripes....

Well....for sure I'm thinking to be more conservative and plan about an unmarked plain aircraft....I'm not sure to be able to replicate a good washed white over wood as good to avoid a complete repainting....and since wood is time consuming....i prefere to avoid....

Thanks again for your great help and the great information you put in my brain!

[Flying Helmut]

I seem to recall coming across a photograph of a line-up of Jasta 8 Albatros scouts, notable for the inclusion of a D.I with the expansion tank mounted ahead of the cylinders, instead of above them (this was thought to have only been tried in a single D.I , D.384/16 of the prototype batch, but that machine was supposed to have been allocated to Jasta 2, where it was frequently photographed, not Jasta 8, so there may have been more than one example).
I've had a quick skim, but can't find the photo as yet. I'll try again when I have a bit more time.

I've found it! - Osprey Duel No.42 'DH2 vs Albatros D.I-D.II' page 73; the expansion tank is clearly visible, mounted between the spinner and the cylinder block.

[Gangleader147]

Some great info guys, thanks

[Flying Helmut]

Update!

Photograph of two Jasta 8 Albatros D.V machines, one clearly showing the tail empennage...multiple stripes, probably black/white, vertical on the fin and rudder, extending laterally across the horizontal stabilizer.

'The Jasta Pilots', by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven, Grub Street Press

Photo plate section mid-book, 24th photo page, top row Left.
Adjacent to the Right is a Pfalz D.IIIa ascribed to Jasta 8 in 1918 - it has a striped fuselage, but appears to have a single-colour tail.

I haven't been able to find this photo on line, so I'll try to scan the book photo & see whether I can post it here.

[Guntruck]

Here's one of Bob Pearson's profiles, the only one he has for Jasta 8

[Flying Helmut]

[Flying Helmut]

Update!

Photograph of two Jasta 8 Albatros D.V machines, one clearly showing the tail empennage...multiple stripes, probably black/white, vertical on the fin and rudder, extending laterally across the horizontal stabilizer.

'The Jasta Pilots', by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven, Grub Street Press

Photo plate section mid-book, 24th photo page, top row Left.
Adjacent to the Right is a Pfalz D.IIIa ascribed to Jasta 8 in 1918 - it has a striped fuselage, but appears to have a single-colour tail.

I haven't been able to find this photo on line, so I'll try to scan the book photo & see whether I can post it here.

Found the same photo in a digital copy of Squadron Signal Aircraft No.46 'Albatros Fighters In Action' page 4

Attachment 296378

The caption (on page 3) reads "A flight of Albatros D.Vas of Jasta 8 with black and white tail stripes. By this time, in late 1917,......"

[Scacco 1]

Hi to all!

Thanks for the really useful information gathered here!

A very peculiar markings for their crates indeed!

Planning to skin some of them in the next future!

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