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Thread: American Camels?

  1. #1

    Default American Camels?

    Guys were American squadrons supplied by Camels? Could there have been something like a flight of American Camels in WWI?

  2. #2

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    Matt56 did some here - https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ntente-)/page2

    17th Aero Squadron - it served as part of the RFC

    Personally I don't know of any Camels carrying American roundels.

  3. #3

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    Thanks Tim!

  4. #4

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    There were two squadrons of the Americans with the RFC. The 17th and I believe the 148th. The US had two squadrons forming at the end of the war that did not see much action. The 41st and the 185th. The 185th was an experimental Night Fighter group.

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  6. #6

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    Thank you guys, i am in a testing team for one WW1 air combat game that is being released. Each nation has 3 machines they historically used as the war progressed. Americans have N. 17 > Camel > Spad 13.
    I'd say N. 28 may be probably better choice than Camel, but anyway, it looks like at least one AEF squadron would use Camels.

  7. #7

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    Though a couple of units had the Camel the primary aircraft used by the AEF at the front as 'pursuit' aircraft were the SPAD VII (103), Nieuport 28 (181), and SPAD XIII (877) - though some started briefly with N.27 rather than the N.17 mentioned I'd have said the three primary types would be the ones to use.
    http://www.theaerodrome.com/services/usa/index.php

    "He is wise who watches"

  8. #8

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    Not sure how accurate but when I saw that the US had Camels I did 2 like this.

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  9. #9

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    The Americans did have some S.E.5a's. represented by the old Nexus model of the aircraft flown by Boudwin. This came with two aeroplane cards, an A gun version and a B gun version, the latter to represent the period when the U.S. forces were short of Lewis guns.

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  10. #10

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    Wouldn't count on the SE - 25th Aero Squadron got their first SE5a on Nov 1st 1918... on the 10th they made their first flight over the lines, many without a Lewis gun, no EA were seen, they dropped bombs (carried on their laps) on Metz.
    The morning of the 11th saw another patrol being made over the front, being in the air at the time of the Armistice with Germany. However, again no enemy aircraft were seen, no bombs dropped and no rounds were fired by the squadron.
    Boudwin (formerly of 84sqn RAF) was on both these missions - here he is with crew Sgt. F.C. Melby (left) and Pvt. C.L. Gilbert (right)) in front of Boudwin's Austin Motor Car Company-produced S.E. 5a #19


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_Aero_Squadron

    The SE-5 operated as the main trainer for the Air Service - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...my_Air_Service

    "He is wise who watches"

  11. #11

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    Interesting stuff, Dave - I didn't know any of that!

    Guess I'll have to repaint my stack of "Boudwin"s into something RAF-ish.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    ...Guess I'll have to repaint my stack of "Boudwin"s into something RAF-ish.
    I'm sure there are a few candidates for that honour Tim, which do you think you're likely to choose ?

    "He is wise who watches"

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I'm sure there are a few candidates for that honour Tim, which do you think you're likely to choose ?
    Not sure yet - I already have a six-plane Flight from 85 Squadron, with 6 more 'Nexus' "Bishops" ready to form a second Flight.
    I've enough 'Ares' "McCudden"s for a six-plane Flight from 56 Squadron, too.

    I'll need to give it a lot more thought, but right now I'm swamped by Early/Mid War Germans and Belgians, with the British and French demanding their "place in the Sun", too; it'll be quite a while yet!

  14. #14

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    SE5 repaint list:

    Captain Albert Ball, 56 squadron. - because it is basically a "Bishop" in red - though I don't know how to make a fern decal (yet)...
    Captain Duncan Grinell Milne, 56 squadron - because it had a flamboyant all red fuselage with Schweinhund on the side. What's not to like?
    K.L. Caldwell, 60 squadron - because it is a "Bishop" in yellow and would look great on the board together. Again with the fern decal, sigh...

    Even though these are a mix of 56 and 60 squadron, add the ARES Bishop and you would have 4 really nice, complimenting SE5/5a's on the board.

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    “Fly fast - take chances!”

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Scharf View Post
    ... Captain Duncan Grinell Milne, 56 squadron - because it had a flamboyant all red fuselage with Schweinhund on the side. What's not to like?
    Well, it was a post war paintjob for a start... And aren't two of the paint jobs on the same plane in different squadrons - check the tail numbers - and they were only on the planes for a very short time Aug/Sep '17. Pretty though - I did Soden's SE5 to run alongside Bishop's, very similar schemes.

    "He is wise who watches"

  16. #16

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    Tim; you could keep it the way it is, for a Plan 1919 game
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  17. #17

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Not sure yet - I already have a six-plane Flight from 85 Squadron, with 6 more 'Nexus' "Bishops" ready to form a second Flight.
    I've enough 'Ares' "McCudden"s for a six-plane Flight from 56 Squadron, too.

    I'll need to give it a lot more thought, but right now I'm swamped by Early/Mid War Germans and Belgians, with the British and French demanding their "place in the Sun", too; it'll be quite a while yet!
    Mick Mannock's A Se 5a might be a nice choice!

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Well, it was a post war paintjob for a start... And aren't two of the paint jobs on the same plane in different squadrons - check the tail numbers - and they were only on the planes for a very short time Aug/Sep '17. Pretty though - I did Soden's SE5 to run alongside Bishop's, very similar schemes.

    You had me at pretty!

    I'm new to the game and just learning that researching RAF aircraft color schemes and pilot attribution is exhausting. So much suppression of individual expression to begin with ... throw in the constant rotation of pilots into whatever machine was airworthy for the mission and the frequent movement of aircraft between squadrons... exhausting to research. Probably a superior way to prosecute a war, but so much less interesting than the German's flair.

    I still consider my planes to be more game pieces than anything else, so I value something that looks good on the table. Thanks for the Frank Soden tip! I'm adding his scheme to my repaint list because it does pair very well with Bishop (sounded like a wine snob there for a bit!) I had not run across the "Mongoose" yet.

    Did you hand paint your Soden from a Bishop then? That little complex white line that outlines the color near the cowling (on the Bishop, Ball, Caldwell, etc) absolutely terrifies me to the point of paralysis.
    “Fly fast - take chances!”

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Scharf View Post
    ...Did you hand paint your Soden from a Bishop then? That little complex white line that outlines the color near the cowling (on the Bishop, Ball, Caldwell, etc) absolutely terrifies me to the point of paralysis...
    I had to repaint one as the finish/decals were so bad on the original - I picked Soden's as a running mate for Bishop. Truly horrible fiddly hand painting even over Bishop's markings - it doesn't bear too close inspection but at table distances it just passes scrutiny:

    Here he is passing Lothar's D.III - more action to be seen here:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...to-und-Lothar-!
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-Lothar-Again-!

    "He is wise who watches"

  20. #20

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    The 185th flew Camel's over the front for about a month starting on 5 October
    They flew 126 sorties with only one probable kill, a Gotha GV on 22 October.
    They were a night fighter squadron assigned to the 1st Pursuit Group if the link
    below works their is some footage of them on YouTube


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ_9MrSNR5Q

  21. #21

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    Looks like I put the stripe in the wrong direction. Didn't check close to see how it shoul have been but then they are my Camel's and that makes them different.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I had to repaint one as the finish/decals were so bad on the original - I picked Soden's as a running mate for Bishop. Truly horrible fiddly hand painting even over Bishop's markings - it doesn't bear too close inspection but at table distances it just passes scrutiny:
    Thanks for the tips on Soden. Have a shot of rep for helping a NOOB.
    “Fly fast - take chances!”



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