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Thread: Arado Ar 234 bomber

  1. #1

    Default Arado Ar 234 bomber

    Couple of clips i came across about Germany's and the worlds jet bomber.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7MgMbZYpy0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5665Vb8-6Q


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  2. #2

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    Fascinating, thanks Paul

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  3. #3

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    Funny you posted this. I just ordered an Ar 234 from AIM. Not sure how it would be used but something different to have in the force.
    Last edited by BobP; 10-18-2020 at 10:40.

  4. #4

    Thumbs up

    Very interesting Paul!

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  5. #5

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  6. #6

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    Thank you for sharing those interesting video clips, Paul.

  7. #7

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    Don’t know what’s faster the jet or Mike’s card production.....

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    Don’t know what’s faster the jet or Mike’s card production.....
    I wish! The Ar.234 card is still a work in progress. The Unofficial Stats Committee hasn't put the stamp of approval on the above draft.

    Original Thread: Arado Ar.234 -The One-Man Plane
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    Don’t know what’s faster the jet or Mike’s card production.....


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  10. #10

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    Mikes card give me an idea on how to paint it. Thanks for that.

  11. #11

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    I have some AiM's Ar.234s on the painting plates; all now stalled due to......well life.
    I posted on Mike's Original Thread: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...l=1#post486002
    for the movement deck. Also see my jet rules:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...rojects-hanger

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedeby View Post
    Don’t know what’s faster the jet or Mike’s card production.....


    why not both lol?

  13. #13

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    First attempt at a Jet card. Card size is 64mm wide by 102mm high.

    Three speeds, with the slow speed arrows being 30mm long, the middle speed arrows at 58mm, and the fast speed being 92mm long.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    PS: For the 30 degree turns, I have excentuated the fast speed turn by adding a 20mm straight length to the base of a borrwed slower deck arrow, rather than making a shallow curve. I borrowed from other decks to get the middle and slow speed turns, so no 'delay' in the turn.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  14. #14

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    WWII Jet speeds. How to get all the jets into the game?

    With the fastest jet in combat at the end of WWII, the Me.163 Komet was it. Too fast for a decent game. However, there were Me.262s, and a few members of the forum are attempting to fly them in games. What would that look like, and how would it compare with the Ar.234? Something like this?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS JetA.jpg  Views: 65  Size: 34.2 KB  ID: 293777" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    I stayed with the official Fast Maneuver size cards, and put the longest arrow on it. Karl [Jager] suggested that the Me.262 should have an arrow 126mm long. Doable on a card that would be too long to conveniently handle. So, the above graphic is a rough idea of the O deck 30 degree turns, with an Me.262 30 degree turn placed on the card(s). I have added a Red overlay sized to a Fast card. Using an extender for the base movement, almost all the Jet maneuvers could be placed on MATES WWII cards for the individual maneuvers. I could do a single Jet Extender (straights and turns), and perhaps individual Jet Maneuver decks for slower and faster jets.

    Might work? Thoughts?

    PS: Gathering other threads and trying to keep them in mind, I'm putting links here:
    262's Movement Rules
    Opole Jetfighter Testcenter
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 10-27-2020 at 16:02.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    WWII Jet speeds.

    I stayed with the official Fast Maneuver size cards, and put the longest arrow on it. Karl [Jager] suggested that the Me.262 should have an arrow 126mm long. Doable on a card that would be too long to conveniently handle. So, the above graphic is a rough idea of the O deck 30 degree turns, with an Me.262 30 degree turn placed on the card(s). I have added a Red overlay sized to a Fast card. Using an extender for the base movement, almost all the Jet maneuvers could be placed on MATES WWII cards for the individual maneuvers. I could do a single Jet Extender (straights and turns), and perhaps individual Jet Maneuver decks for slower and faster jets.

    Might work? Thoughts?
    So the "card" represented by the red outline is the extender. Elegant. I like that.
    My question is will the existing MATES cards need to be modified to show the splitoff for the turns of the Max speed arrow?
    As for the question of a single extender, on individual ones by the jet (as per my suggested rules), I think we would need a extender for the declared deck of the jet flying
    e.g. E for the Ar.234 and T for the Me.262.
    Looking good and with interest.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  16. #16

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    Before I get into the extender card, I thought I would see how the maneuvers looked against a standard Fast Maneuver sized card. This would let me see if the 45 degree turns would fit width-wise.

    I think I am messing this up. The example below is for the Arado Ar.234, with the straights indicated. Note that the Fast maneuvers will not fit on a 88.8 mm (3.5") card. However, if I am calculating the turns correctly (not a good assumption), they will all fit width-wise. The problem is that I think the slow speed turns for 30 and 45 degrees are too slow compared to the straight slow speed. Also, I don't have the 45 degree Medium turn indicated in the card, yet.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS JetA2.jpg  Views: 52  Size: 39.2 KB  ID: 293791" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    Am I getting this right for length of arrows and direction of turn?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  17. #17

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    PM sent
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  18. #18

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    Attempting to confirm the slow speeds. I have pasted in the slow turns from the W deck, which I think are the same as the E deck. They are the fucia colored 30 and 45 degree turns added into this image:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS JetA3.jpg  Views: 44  Size: 41.1 KB  ID: 293916" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    The 30 degree arrow is the same length, the 45 degree is a bit slower. I am hoping I am not missing something in this. My intent with this image is to produce the length of arrows for all speeds without extentsion. This will give me the base speeds, and if they don't need extensions, then they will go on one card. For the fast speeds, I would like to have the extra card(s). But I want the turns to be properly represented. If there is an extension in the Fast speeds, turns will reflect a full coordinated turn, not a straight extension with a turn at the end.

    I am thinking along the line of Battlestar Galactica maneuver cards, with the first maneuver step using either a slow speed maneuver (slow or mid-speed) and an add-on second step maneuver (Overboost) within a turn. For Wings of Glory, there won't be a division of the steps, the player just lays down the maneuver card and the extender, as required. The player will need chits for slow, fast (representing the Jet mid-speed), and an Overboost(Jet fast?) speed chits, and can place one card on the console. When revealing the speed chit, that is when the two cards come out. This way, the opponent doesn't know what the jet player is planning.

    The cards should represent the moves in an unambigous way.

    PS: The fucia arrows added above are wrong, and not E Maneuver Deck Slow Speed arrows. Update to follow...
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 11-04-2020 at 22:27.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  19. #19

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    Math isn't one of my strong suits. The below is my latest attempt to get something that will work for Jets.

    This image shows the J Extension card and the Jet1 Right Turns card:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS JetA4.jpg  Views: 39  Size: 47.9 KB  ID: 294131" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    All the Right Turns for all speeds fit on the main card, except the Fast 30 degree turn. For that turn, it would be necessary to use the Jext card first, and match up the gold/yellow indicators, placing the plane on the medium blue arrow marked 3,4F. Note that the Fast 45 degree turn is almost the same length as the medium 30 degree turn, so it fits on the same card.

    I have actually matched the 3,4F arc for the Jet1 deck for the Arado Ar.234 and the Messerschmitt Me.262. The plan is that only one Jext card is needed for all the Jet Maneuver decks. The Left and Straight maneuvers will all be represented on a single Jext card, usable for all Jet decks (and yes, I am nibbling away at the Me.262 Jet2 deck as this one is produced).

    PS: Working on this project has necessitated digging out my "Fire from the Skys" boxed set and checking cards. I have corrected two sets of MATES WWII cards because I messed them up. Both E and G decks have been updated in my MATES WWII album.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  20. #20

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    Back to playing with the Jet Maneuver decks.

    Silly question? Can a jet do an Immelmann turn at medium and fast speeds?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  21. #21

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    There is an interesting 9-page article on the Ar 234 in December's Flypast magazine, including half a dozen colour profiles.
    Last edited by Guntruck; 11-25-2020 at 02:59.
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Back to playing with the Jet Maneuver decks.

    Silly question? Can a jet do an Immelmann turn at medium and fast speeds?
    From what I have read, yes. Slow speeds, no.
    The tricky question for the Ar.234 specifically, is whether it could with a bombload, and that I don't know for sure, though I would venture, not.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus



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