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Thread: OTT-CYM-Mission 8 - "Formation Flying!" - 26th August '16 by Vagabond

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    Default OTT-CYM-Mission 8 - "Formation Flying!" - 26th August '16 by Vagabond

    Your Enemies Briefing

    Our Two Seat planes have been taking a bit of a pounding from the enemy when they are conducting bombing missions over the lines and we need to put a stop to it. We can’t cover the raids with our scouts as they don’t have the range and so I want you to think how we can fly in a formation that will provide all round defence to get our planes to the target and back again.
    (Your enemy are the two seat formation.)

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    Planes
    You have 4 two seat light bombers, your choice of plane and in period but I would suggest a forward firing gun as well as a rear facing one. For the Germans that’s easy, Albatros CIII, Roland or Rumpler, for the Brits the 1 ½ Strutter or maybe the FE2b with the rear firing MG giving them all round cover but only firing 1 gun at a time. Substitute as necessary or use differing planes but give some thought as to how you will maintain formation if using differing speeds.

    Dave if it's OK with you I would suggest that we only use named 2 seater crew that we have available, and that the additional ones needed are anonymous, feel free to disagree and we'll go with your recommendation.

    Formation
    You will chose a formation to fly in, this can be anything you like, historical or not, you will chose the distance between the planes but I think ½ a ruler should be the minimum, but do what you think is appropriate. The planes will be placed centrally on the long edge of one mat facing the opposite long edge. The rearmost plane of the formation will be placed with its rear edge on the edge of the mat and the rest of the formation will be placed according to the formation you have chosen to fly in.

    Movement
    Your objective is to fly in a straight line and exit the far side of the mat. You will use 1 set of movement cards 2 straights and 1 short straight to simulate the fact that you are carrying a full load of fuel and bombs. Take the 3 cards and shuffle them and place them in order with out seeing which is which. Alternatively use a dice or some other method to suit you to give a randomness as to when the short straight is played. Do this after determining the attacking scouts movements. Use the same card to move all 4 planes each phase, this will ensure that they stay in formation.
    The Bombers will remain in formation at all times, the only exception is that if on fire use sideslips instead of straights use 1 right and 1 left sideslip and for the 3rd card use a short straight. A plane that is on fire will use the sideslips independently of what the rest of the formation is doing.

    EG the formation may play long straight, short straight, long straight but the plane on fire may because of the random nature of their choice play a right slip, a left slip and then a short. At the end of the turn they will be still in position.

    If a plane has to return to base because of damage or wounds etc, turn them out of the formation in the safest direction and then make normal independent moves back home.

    The aim of the game is to see if a formation of two seat planes can defend itself against a scout attack.

    I don’t use altitude for my games but I think this is one where having planes at slightly different altitudes will help in the all round defence, especially making it harder to creep up behind them without getting shot at, it will also give more options in the attack as well.

    OK I hope that’s not too controversial and now for the scouts that you will be flying.

    Scout Briefing
    The enemy seem to have put some thought into using formations and arcs of fire to defend their planes on bombing missions, we know they are coming over in, (whatever Formation you have decided) your task is to devise an attack strategy that will defeat their formation defence.

    This is the clever part, when I played out my trial game I just used an ill thought out attacking position and got shot to pieces.

    Planes
    4 scouts of your choice and in period.

    Scout Starting Position
    You know they have been coming over regularly in formation and beating off the disjointed attacks made on them so you are waiting in the air at the right altitude. You will see them coming and can position your planes where ever you like but not closer than 2 ½ rulers from the nearest enemy plane. If you are using altitude and want to start higher that’s fine.

    Control in the air
    You have a plan (I hope) and all 4 scout pilots know what it is but once in the air there is no communication as per the normal rules.

    Your plan could be A1 and A2 will attack the rearmost enemy and A3 and A4 will attack the Northernmost enemy, once they are shot down it’s a free for all.
    It may be that your plan is more specific, or less so, it could be as simple as Come in from the flank and shoot from the hip.

    So when using the protractor to decide the quadrant the enemy is in, you take it to your pre determined target rather than the nearest plane and that should take you in the right direction. All targets of opportunity will be fired on as per normal and there may be a situation that you feel your pilot would attack the nearest plane rather than the planned target, if so just do it, but you should endeavour to engage the enemy designated in the plan.

    At some point you could abandon the plan altogether and go for a free for all if the Flight Leader fires a red Very flare for instance.

    Table size
    I envision this as an initial slug feist that will develop into a running fight once the two seaters are past the scouts and the scouts are playing catch up. I played this on my single mat which is the same as 2 WoW mats side by side joined on their long edges. I found that the 2 seat planes broke through and even allowing for the reduced movement with the short straight the scouts only began to catch up near the end of the table.

    What I propose is using 3 mats joined on the long edges, for some of us it will not be possible to lay out 3 mats, indeed you may not have 3 mats but what I found was that the fight started on one mat and eventually moved to the other one as the bombers made their way into enemy territory. It would then be possible to remove the empty mat, slide the full mat into its position and place the empty mat in front of the full mat for the planes to fly on to. In my case, once the planes are more than half way over the mat I shall move them all back 27” and keep the relationship of one to the other correct and achieve the same result as mat moving.

    Should you find this isn’t a practical proposition for you just assume the enemy came over a little later than usual and you used up too much fuel hanging around waiting and have to return to base sooner and just use the normal 2 mat option.

    This may explain what I mean, or it may not. For the German players you should reverse the table so that the British bombers fly on from the left hand side.

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    Balance
    The game balance depends on the planes you decide to use, I used Albatros CIII’s and Rumplers, flew them close together and in a very cunning formation, they provided a huge amount of mutual support, which was the whole purpose of the exercise.
    I flew Nieuport 11’s against them and they proved too fragile and as I said my attack plan was ill-considered and my scouts arrived piecemeal, the weight of firepower against them was just too much and I lost 2 planes but inflicted a lot of damage, just not enough to down a plane, but having learned from that, I have hopefully a better plan, or I may just use tougher scouts.

    The alternative would be to use some planes with forward and rear firing guns and others with just rear firing ones and this will give different dynamic to take into account when choosing a formation.

    My only advice is try and avoid this situation.
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    It ended very badly.

    Hopefully it's reasonably clear what I would like to include in the game but this is for you to enjoy and so see fit to make any changes you think necessary to ensure it flows well for you.

    As you all have much more experience than I do it will be interesting to see what planes you chose, why you chose the formation you did and what your attack plan will be.

    Victory Points
    +2 pts for each bomber that exits the board in the right direction.
    -2 pts for each bomber shot down or returned to base.

    For E&E, the whole board is ET for Bombers and FT for Scouts

    Any questions feel free to ask and I will answer asap depending on internet.

    Good Luck and all the best
    Cheers
    Last edited by Vagabond; 09-26-2020 at 11:13.

  2. #2

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    Thanks John, this looks like an interesting challenge. I wonder how successful the tandem formations will be ?
    There is something amiss in the movement section though -
    Alternatively and this is against the rules but more in line with the spirit of carrying a full bomb load use 1 right and 1 left sideslip and for the 3rd card use a short straight...
    Actually it's not. A stall is not counted as a straight so this would be the correct way to play it for the machine on fire. You might want to amend the movement section to just retain the relevant parts.

    Two crews is fine with me - saves me digging more up !
    Last edited by flash; 09-26-2020 at 11:29.

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Thanks John, this looks like an interesting challenge. I wonder how successful the tandem formations will be ?
    There is something amiss in the movement section though -
    Actually it's not. A stall is not counted as a straight so this would be the correct way to play it for the machine on fire. You might want to amend the movement section to just retain the relevant parts.
    Thanks Dave, I've amended it.

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    Nice one - in the all scenarios thread now.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Looks interesting, John, and luckily all my RFC 2-Seater crews are back, ready for action*.


    * I will have to use 2 Strutter Comics as pseudo 2-seaters, though, in order to have 4 of one type.

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    Hope it works well
    Cheers

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    From what I've read recently keeping any sort of formation was difficult, especially over distance, due to the idiosyncrasies in performance of the individual machines. I'll look to play the same cards but individually selected for each machine - that should create some interesting movement within the formation.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Looks good, John. ...and a tough job for the Seadogs’ Nieuport 11s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    From what I've read recently keeping any sort of formation was difficult, especially over distance, due to the idiosyncrasies in performance of the individual machines. I'll look to play the same cards but individually selected for each machine - that should create some interesting movement within the formation.
    Hi Dave this sounds like a good idea to improve the realism within the concept of the game and I think I might try it as well. One of the reasons for having 1 card for each of the 4 formation planes was to move the game on a bit faster, but this would be more realistic but still keep the formation together.

    I tried to find out when formation flying was introduced to give tactical defence improvements rather than just keeping planes roughly together, I suspect it was later in WWl or maybe even WWll, and I think it might be more effective in the game than it was in real life but it's something that I hope will provide some food for thought.

    Thanks for considering the scenario and suggesting alternative improvements.
    Cheers

  10. #10

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    Thanks John, I will try it out, it may go to rats but you never know !

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Looks good, John. ...and a tough job for the Seadogs’ Nieuport 11s.
    I suggest you bolt on some additional armour.. I think I might fly Nieuports and DH2's but in your case with the pretty Nieuports you have, I think the song line, "oh ho you're in trouble" sounds very apposite, can't tell you who the song is by but I'm sure you'll recognise the sentiment.

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    Had a go at this over the last couple of days...
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    The random stall for each target worked out very well and formation was kept overall. As the target was in a formation I played the attackers in formation for the first couple of turns with a one card lag to simulate following my lead and to ensure they turned in at more or less the same mark... after that it was a free for all using the AI charts.
    It went about as expected - my chaps quickly ran out of ammo, picked up jams, shot zeros and got their arses handed to them..!
    From what I've read that was about how it was against larger formations - too many guns and angles !

    "He is wise who watches"

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Had a go at this over the last couple of days...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The random stall for each target worked out very well and formation was kept overall. As the target was in a formation I played the attackers in formation for the first couple of turns with a one card lag to simulate following my lead and to ensure they turned in at more or less the same mark... after that it was a free for all using the AI charts.
    It went about as expected - my chaps quickly ran out of ammo, picked up jams, shot zeros and got their arses handed to them..!
    From what I've read that was about how it was against larger formations - too many guns and angles !
    Great shot of the Mess/Office at night Dave.
    Looks like a super place to play.

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    It's a vast improvement over the garage Baz !
    You may notice I put some slabs down outside the doors, as I was lifting the turf to do that I found this little fella caught in amongst it...
    Obviously a survivor of a previous engagement on the site. He's now in the display case !
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    "He is wise who watches"

  16. #16

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    It's a vast improvement over the garage Baz !
    You may notice I put some slabs down outside the doors, as I was lifting the turf to do that I found this little fella caught in amongst it...
    Obviously a survivor of a previous engagement on the site. He's now in the display case !
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Neat!

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Had a go at this over the last couple of days...
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	293072 (Snr management sneaked a pic to show my daughter)

    The random stall for each target worked out very well and formation was kept overall. As the target was in a formation I played the attackers in formation for the first couple of turns with a one card lag to simulate following my lead and to ensure they turned in at more or less the same mark... after that it was a free for all using the AI charts.
    It went about as expected - my chaps quickly ran out of ammo, picked up jams, shot zeros and got their arses handed to them..!
    From what I've read that was about how it was against larger formations - too many guns and angles !
    It sounds a bit dire, I hope you don't lose any pilots. the Garden Room or shed looks pretty spiffy, do you have a bed in there for late night games?

  18. #18

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    Too many toys in there for a bed John, though I might be able to sling a hammock !
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...for-Hangar-33-!

    "He is wise who watches"

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Too many toys in there for a bed John, though I might be able to sling a hammock !
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...for-Hangar-33-!
    I completely missed your build thread, that looks amazing, OK so just a hammock, that will have to do then. I'm just about to set up Barry's game and hopefully play it through tonight.

    Looking at your boxes you had alot of whiteish buildings in some of them, do you mind me asking what they are?

    I recently kitted out my new room and used large plastic drawer systems, I bought mine from Dunelm Mills but quite a few people sell them. They have the advantage that I don't have to move every box to get to the one I want which is always at the bottom of the pile.

  20. #20

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    The buildings are mostly Hovels resin ones John, some Queens Hussar (now Lancer minis) and a few odd other brands. The whiteish ones, if I'm looking at the correct box, are eastern front cottages by Hovels; in the first pic there's a big whiteish building in the right hand stack - that's a supermarket in plastic by Dapol for modern gaming.. you can see that in my album, though only as a thumbnail.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=285
    Other buildings in the album are home made from foam out of ammo boxes. They are in the Apple box & the plastic box beneath it in my thread.

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The buildings are mostly Hovels resin ones John, some Queens Hussar (now Lancer minis) and a few odd other brands. The whiteish ones, if I'm looking at the correct box, are eastern front cottages by Hovels; in the first pic there's a big whiteish building in the right hand stack - that's a supermarket in plastic by Dapol for modern gaming.. you can see that in my album, though only as a thumbnail.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=285
    Other buildings in the album are home made from foam out of ammo boxes. They are in the Apple box & the plastic box beneath it in my thread.
    It's a bit late but I had a quick look at your album, you are playing Ambush Alley, I've been reading a couple of blogs recently where they are playing Force on Force and whilst I have a lot of reservations about gaming anything in the last 50 years I am really drawn to this. I don't know if it's the rules that give a game that people write entertaining stories about or if it's just the people would write entertaining stories anyway, but the rules seem to give entertaining games.
    I downloaded the FonF rules but am having a hard time making head nor tails of them. I thought I was reading about the rules and after 40 pages I thought I would page forward and find the rules , then realised the novel I was reading was the rules. I'd be interested in your take on them.
    Your Eastern Front buildings sound a bit esoteric, I have thought of similar buildings but for horror/vampire type games, set in eastern Europe. Interesting that you make your own buildings, I'm in the process of building an Anglo Saxon Church circa 800, ripe for being raided and burnt by my Vikings, just struggling a bit with the colour for the daub, I tried a rose pink that was supposed to be on a royal hall in Cheddar and a monastery somewhere in Northumberland but it looked crap. I'm going to revert to my normal mud colour.

    Re my game scenario, I played it tonight, I was sure I had a plan that would cope with the excellent bomber formation I had chosen, if only I could fly the blasted scouts to my plan I'm sure it would have worked. My flying was abysmal, it didn't lead to disaster but it certainly didn't lead to victory. I'm sure I can achieve success and may have another go but will post the original game as soon as I've posted Barry's game..
    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ..I downloaded the FonF rules but am having a hard time making head nor tails of them. I thought I was reading about the rules and after 40 pages I thought I would page forward and find the rules , then realised the novel I was reading was the rules. I'd be interested in your take on them...
    It is indeed AA/FoF that I play. They are not straight forward rules but I like the abstract action and the mechanics of them. I have tweaked mine too but they still hang together reasonably well. I find they work best for asymmetric games and don't believe the blurb about less dice throwing !
    Nice thing is you can do it in 15 or 20mm (as mine is) and can use a 2- 4 foot square battle space.
    I stopped watching demos on the 'Tube' of basic rules as most are not being played correctly.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Just finished my game. It ended a tie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Just finished my game. It ended a tie.
    Just finished mine as well.
    Cards were like a pendulum.

    Will post tomorrow if I can.

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    Looking forward to reading your games and Daves, just need to post and read Barry's games first.

    Playing my game the trial was a bit of a disaster, playing it for the campaign, not good, still not thrown the dice to see how the downed pilots fared.

    Having learned a bit from these 2 games I played it again, and you could say I won (if you were being charitable) but it was one of those stonking games that you shout "yea take that you bstard" and "oh good grief you couldn't hit a barn, from inside the barn", to "why is this deck full of zeros"

    Anyway hope the C&W dice are kind to you.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Looking forward to reading your games and Daves, just need to post and read Barry's games first.

    Playing my game the trial was a bit of a disaster, playing it for the campaign, not good, still not thrown the dice to see how the downed pilots fared.

    Having learned a bit from these 2 games I played it again, and you could say I won (if you were being charitable) but it was one of those stonking games that you shout "yea take that you bstard" and "oh good grief you couldn't hit a barn, from inside the barn", to "why is this deck full of zeros"

    Anyway hope the C&W dice are kind to you.
    I'm afraid the grim reaper continues to roll my C&W dice - more bleeding red on my rosters.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    I'm afraid the grim reaper continues to roll my C&W dice - more bleeding red on my rosters.
    Oh no, I hope the Shiraz Winery is still operative.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Oh no, I hope the Shiraz Winery is still operative.
    You will find out before too long. I've finished the pics and just starting to write the storyline.



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