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Thread: ION Radio - Ken vs AI

  1. #1

    Default ION Radio - Ken vs AI

    In this report, Ken pilots 2 Colonial Vipers using the complete rules against a pair of Cylon Raiders being flown using an AI created by Adam Kuzick.

    https://youtu.be/NoSn2P4LMi0

  2. #2

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    Thanks for the BSG video Ken. Good to see the solo AI in action. Your Colonials had a bad start with poor shooting but turned it around to convert the Cylons into space debris.

  3. #3

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    Very cool, Ken! I think this game is in my future.

  4. #4

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    Chris, if you haven't played it yet....I feel sorry for you. It is fantastic. I'll probably run one as one of our on line games with Mike.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Chris, if you haven't played it yet....I feel sorry for you. It is fantastic. I'll probably run one as one of our on line games with Mike.
    lol I'm already researching what I need.

  6. #6

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    Sure ... tempt me ....


    So far I have saved my wallet from BSG.

    I would like to know more about the solo app used.
    Is it similar to those we have for WGF and WGS?
    The Cylons did not do well in this demo.

    With Ares Summer Sale this month I might have to take the plunge.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Sure ... tempt me ....


    So far I have saved my wallet from BSG.

    I would like to know more about the solo app used.
    Is it similar to those we have for WGF and WGS?
    The Cylons did not do well in this demo.

    With Ares Summer Sale this month I might have to take the plunge.
    The AI seems to have been designed specifically for the Battlestar Game. I have not yet actually played against the WGF or WGS AI, so I am not able to compare it. There is a 1.5 version that is available, so I may try my hands at that for future videos.

    This game definitely needs an AI that can evolve over time though given the current state of minimal (if any) PvP.

    It is an excellent game though with more options for each fighter than I recall having for Wings of War.
    Last edited by ca1701; 08-14-2020 at 19:43. Reason: extra information.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ca1701 View Post
    The AI seems to have been designed specifically for the Battlestar Game. I have not yet actually played against the WGF or WGS AI, so I am not able to compare it. There is a 1.5 version that is available, so I may try my hands at that for future videos.

    This game definitely needs an AI that can evolve over time though given the current state of minimal (if any) PvP.

    It is an excellent game though with more options for each fighter than I recall having for Wings of War.
    If you read through this thread on BGG, you'll see some of the development of the Cylon AI: BoardGameGeek.com - Solo Cylon AI Posted

    Yes, it was specifically designed using Battlestar Galactica - Spaceship Battles, and more specifically, for use with only the parts and accessories included in a Starter Set.

    I have been trying to develop an AI that I can program into an Android App, but I need to play a lot more games to get the decision process refined. There are so many options available in BSG, that don't occur in an aerial dogfight in an atmosphere, using planes that can't stop, back up, or pivot as they travel across the mat. Also, given that BSG Cylon Raiders can change speeds from -1 to 6 KE (over two turns), and can FTL jump (if it wasn't complicated enough), it is much more complex than WGF (one speed only) or WGS (two speeds).

    I have a two page chart covering approach speeds, answering maneuvers, rotation possibilities, FTL options, and 'joker' moves (to keep Humans from anticipating every move, or memorizing the decision trees).

    There are things I'm anticipating for the App, including Talents, Special Damage results, and different ships (Like having an AI Viper Wingman, or playing Cylons against Viper AIs). Now, if only I could actually program in Android/Kotlin.

    PS: I got as far as this, before realizing it wasn't inclusive enough for the options available for a Cylon pilot:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ManeuversMod3RotationsV1Raider.jpg 
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    Note: I'm indicating G ratings on some moves (as that can limit options, especially with damage), and Difficult Maneuvers, as that affects choices on the next turn.

    PPS: The above chart is not the two-page process (reducing speed as separation reduces) I'm now working on. Even with the current two-page option, that doesn't cover all the speed changes available (IE: Increasing speed as separation reduces, or speed remaining the same as separation reduces).
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 08-14-2020 at 23:15.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  9. #9

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    OldGuy59; I wanted to get the first version on film before I venture out a little more. I've seen the updates made to Adam's system on BGG, and was looking at those as well. For the next series, my hope is to write up a program that will make all decisions for the cylons. I also want it to learn, and have decided to use Menace (Matchbox AI) to implement that feature.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ca1701 View Post
    OldGuy59; I wanted to get the first version on film before I venture out a little more. I've seen the updates made to Adam's system on BGG, and was looking at those as well. For the next series, my hope is to write up a program that will make all decisions for the cylons. I also want it to learn, and have decided to use Menace (Matchbox AI) to implement that feature.
    If you can come up with a simlpe AI, that is adaptable to different ships, that would be awesome.

    PS: Some notes that could be helpful:

    Maneuver Measurements (Cylon Maneuver Deck Only):
    Reverse: 2 cms
    Straight + OB: 13 cms
    OB: 6 cms
    Str High(3): 7 cms
    Str Medium(2): 3.5 cms
    Str Low(1): 1 cm

    Target Distance:
    1-10cm - Low
    11-15cm - Medium
    16-20cm – High

    If over 20 cms, can close to 10 cms in one move.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 08-14-2020 at 23:16.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    If you can come up with a simlpe AI, that is adaptable to different ships, that would be awesome.

    PS: Some notes that could be helpful:

    Maneuver Measurements (Cylon Maneuver Deck Only):
    Reverse: 2 cms
    Straight + OB: 13 cms
    OB: 6 cms
    Str High(3): 7 cms
    Str Medium(2): 3.5 cms
    Str Low(1): 1 cm

    Target Distance:
    1-10cm - Low
    11-15cm - Medium
    16-20cm – High

    If over 20 cms, can close to 10 cms in one move.
    Part of what I want to do is to re-watch the first season battles and come up with a "flavor" of AI that works similar to that. I then want to watch subsequent battles and see how they change / improve.

    For Cylon "Aces" like Scar, I'm interested in coming up with a slightly different AI that is more ruthless and has extra talents if you will. I think a great scenario would include a number of "unknown" DRADIS contacts in which only one was the enemy force. I have an idea that I want to run in subsequent videos, so we'll see how they turn out. It may be a while though before those are ready as I'm currently looking to include voice overs for radio chatter in the next series.

  12. #12

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    If you get the expansion packs, especially Scar and the Raptors, you will see the Talents and Equipment cards that might help with your plans. Scar is lethal. There are Scanner and Jammer cards in the Raptors.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    If you get the expansion packs, especially Scar and the Raptors, you will see the Talents and Equipment cards that might help with your plans. Scar is lethal. There are Scanner and Jammer cards in the Raptors.
    I really need to open Scar up and get him on the table. The raptors had some interesting ideas for rockets, however I really want to know more about missiles now...

  14. #14

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    Really enjoyed that video - thanks for posting!
    Did the Cylon AI really only manage to generate one single shot during the entire scenario?
    Kudos to you Ken - you really outflew those toasters!

    Quote Originally Posted by ca1701 View Post
    Part of what I want to do is to re-watch the first season battles and come up with a "flavor" of AI that works similar to that. I then want to watch subsequent battles and see how they change / improve.
    I think a great scenario would include a number of "unknown" DRADIS contacts in which only one was the enemy force. I have an idea that I want to run in subsequent videos, so we'll see how they turn out.
    IIRC the Pilot episode has a large DRADIS contact detected at distance, which is then gradually whittled down to just 2 Cylon Raiders by the time the Viper squadron approaches.
    That sort of thing would be useful.

    In my "Full Thrust" days, I used Jon Tuffley's 'Bogey' contact idea, with a table tennis ball on a stand, sprayed overall black, flying as an unconfirmed 'Bogey'.
    A half dozen 'Bogeys', all flying as Raiders, could conceal the real ship until such time as each one is "scanned", forcing it to reveal its true nature..............
    Worked quite well back in the day.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Really enjoyed that video - thanks for posting!
    Did the Cylon AI really only manage to generate one single shot during the entire scenario?
    Kudos to you Ken - you really outflew those toasters!
    Cylon AI only got 1 shot off. I was outflying them the whole game. I have found that certain ranges or directions, the AI does not make the best decisions. I have been providing Adam with as much information as I can to help him out for AI version 2. Having said that, I have played against nearly 500 AI raiders... I get decimated by it when the AI outnumbers me about 2:1. I am looking at possibly modifying the AI a little with some different ideas I have come up with to have a better way of reacting to my ships (as well as add some randomness).

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    In my "Full Thrust" days, I used Jon Tuffley's 'Bogey' contact idea, with a table tennis ball on a stand, sprayed overall black, flying as an unconfirmed 'Bogey'.
    A half dozen 'Bogeys', all flying as Raiders, could conceal the real ship until such time as each one is "scanned", forcing it to reveal its true nature..............
    Worked quite well back in the day.
    I have played Full Thrust with a Colonial Battlestar vs Cylon Basestar using wings of vipers and raiders. Tons of fun, but really required a lot of floor space. I have an idea to mimic the unconfirmed fighters akin to DRADIS static using the general idea from Two Hour Wargames' 5150: Fighter Command. I think it will be enjoyable given I won't actually know which "DRADIS contacts" will be live or just a sensor echo.

    Honestly, my only regret is that John and I don't have the time to film Battlestar together as human opponents are always more unpredictable.



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