Blue Max Jasta Heidemann: book movie comparison

[malachi]

I looked for an appropriate thread to post this, but decided I would start this new one as a resource for anyone who, like myself, hopes to do some repaints and create a Jasta Heidemann someday in honor of this fabulous book and movie! Of course, there are a number of disparities between the book (Bantam Books paperback) and the movie -- which can be viewed as maddening variation or a gateway to artistic license. This thread will try to present those differences in order to allow creators to make their own choices. I took notes from the book and screenshots from the movie -- please let me know if I've goofed anywhere!

There are some 7-lozenge decals (movie appropriate) and cards in the Files section. Also, much Internet info, of course, and this was a great read regarding the movie and planes for it:
http://donhollway.com/bluemax/

Jasta Heidemann could creatively be a mix of Albatros (p 9-10 of book), Pfalz, and Fokker Dr.I and D.VII planes. I will probably choose some Albatros D.III and D.Va and the Pfalz D.III (not particularly "out of date" but am unsure what model is best, plus this is suitable for gameplay).

Stachel's planes:

Pfalz: in the movie Stachel begins with his famous "out of date Pfalz." On p. 28 of the book he begins with a Pfalz, designation 4201/17, as a new pilot since the Albatros go to "proven first-class men." In the movie his Pfalz is 7-lozenge camo; in the book p.28 it is a biplane, matte-gray everywhere with black/white Iron Crosses on fuselage, rudder, and wings.

Fokker Dr.I: in the movie there is the famous scene where he and Willi fly under the bridge. It's also 7-lozenge camo. I find no evidence Stachel flew a Dr.I in the book.

Fokker D.VII: In the move Stachel appears to retain his Dr.I until his famous test-flight of the "new monoplane." In the book he is obsessed with getting his hands on one of the 5 D.VIIs coming to the Jasta (p. 130 possible distribution to Heidemann, Braun, Meuller, Heummel, and possibly Willi). After getting his D.VII it is painted jet-black all over. For a brief time it has an expletive in English in large white letters on the top wing in an effort to enrage opponents, supposedly "F**K YOU" from the description (p. 140-41), but since he had pissed off the ground crew and did not know English, it was painted as "**** ME". This is shortly removed (p. 165) when he's taunted as the "Men's Room Ace" by English airmen since the phrase is appropriate for the bathroom wall (p. 158).

Jasta Heidemann roster (book):
The Jasta has a strength of 13, on paper it should be 18 (p. 26).
rookies:
Tallman
Dietrich (Pfalz p 75)
Fritzinger
Bruno Stachel (Pfalz -> D.VII)

vets:
Otto Heidemann (Albatros -> D.VII)
Karl Fabian (green Albatros p 56)
Willi von Klugermann (Albatros p 131)
Braun (Albatros -> D.VII)
Meuller (balloon specialist) (Albatros -> D.VII p 137)
Heummel (Albatros - D.VII)

"so-so"
Ulrich ("only an acting officer")
Kunkel
Schneider

replacements (p.130)
Hochschild
Nagel


Jasta Heidemann roster (movie):
Tim (Flying Helmut) points out the preponderance of Oberleutnants!
Otto Heidemann
Ltn v. Klugermann
OLtn. Heidt.
OLtn Fabian
OLtn Lindorf
Ltn. Schurabe or Schwabe
Ltn. Koch
Ltn. Bauer
Obtn Becker
Ltn Auber
Ltn Kunz
Ltn Fuchs
Ltn Stachel

Supporting pics from the movie. Enjoy!

[Flying Helmut]

Excellent stuff!

Thanks so much for posting it!

One errata point : photo #5 should be captioned "Stachel Pfalz" and not "Fabian D.VII"

Jasta Heidemann could creatively be a mix of Albatros (p 9-10 of book), Pfalz, and Fokker Dr.I and D.VII planes. I will probably choose some Albatros D.III and D.Va and the Pfalz D.III (not particularly "out of date" but am unsure what model is best, plus this is suitable for gameplay).

Addressing this, it all depends how historically accurate you want to be.

There should be no Fokker D.VIIs in the unit until around the time of Willi's death!
When the 'Kaiserschlact' offensive begins, in late March 1918, no D.VIIs had yet reached the Front, and wouldn't do so for another 2 months!
Having the unit consist of Albatros D.Va planes, with the odd left over Albatros D.III included and a couple of Pfalz would be my choice for "historical accuracy", just the same as you!
The "out of date Pfalz" for Stachel could be a Pfalz D.III, like the one I have painted; the other one, seen in the movie and flown by an unrecorded Staffel pilot, could be the more advanced Pfalz D.IIIa (requires a Shapeways model).

No Triplanes appear in the movie until the Germans are in retreat, and they are treated with a curious mix of Hollywood fiction and unintended fact............

They appear to be standing in for the historical Fokker D.VIIs (in the same way that the Fokker D.VII reproductions are standing in for Albatros D.Vas!); they arrive on the scene after the Offensive stalls, they are regarded as the best planes the Germans have, or could have, and are they very precious:-
Heidemann says to Willi and Stachel - "You'll fly the two Triplanes - look after them, they are the last ones we are likely to get."
Since the Dr.1 was long out of production at this point in the War, Hollywood accidentally got this right!
It is a long-held Hollywood myth, and, indeed, a generally-accepted "fact" amongst the Public, that the Fokker Dr.1 was the best German plane; it must have been, right? It's the one the Red Baron flew!
I suppose that the film-makers thought that replacing the iconic Triplanes with the more accurate D.VIIs later in the film would go against the Public's expectations and beliefs..................

If any Triplanes were in the line-up before the 'Kaiserschlacht' Offensive, then by Heidemann's own rules they would be allocated to himself and Willi before Stachel's arrival. Thus they should be excluded from any "accurate" pre-Stachel line-up.

Following the "historical accuracy" path, I would then add Fokker D.VIIs in April/May, allocating them to Heidemann and Stachel, plus probably one or two others.


As for Stachel's D.VII, the book description of an all-black machine would make it too similar to the D.VIIs of Jasta 7 flown by Josef Jacobs and his wingmen, so I personally wouldn't paint one up like this for Stachel.
As for the wing-top "message", my reading of the book was that Stachel intended for it to read "F**k You", but having pi55ed off the mechanics and ground crew, they actually painted "F**k Me" on the plane as a revenge joke: Stachel flew the plane so-marked, because he didn't speak or read English; when he discovered the "joke", he angrily had the whole message painted out! That is where the "Men's Room Ace" nickname came from.




Following the "Movie Accuracy" pathway, two-seaters-standing-in-for-single-seaters notwithstanding, I intend my "Jasta Heidemann" to consist of

1 x Pfalz D.III (Stachel), already completed


1 x Pfalz D.IIIa

2 x Fokker Dr.I (Stachel and von Klugermann)

3 x Fokker D.VII (Heidemann, von Klugermann, Fabian)

I might add a couple more D.VIIs, and/or possibly Albatros DVas, time and models permitting.

[flash]

Inaccuracies aside Blue Max is still one of my favourite films of the genre.

Weirdly I only picked up the book two or three years ago.

Flight of SE5a, or a brace of Slingsby T.56 (R.A.F. S.E.5 replica) and three DH.82 Tiger Moths ?! Real planes - still better than CGI !
Have a squint at this chaps: http://www.impdb.org/index.php?title=The_Blue_Max

[Flying Helmut]

It's my outright favourite Air War movie, just pipping "Aces High" to the winning post!

Thanks for the impdb link Dave!

[camel crew]

great thread Chris.

[Hedeby]

Great discussion. Flash raises an interesting point about CGI vs. Use of Tiger Moths. Would be interesting to see folks views, I feel a survey coming on...

[Von Scharf]

... Addressing this, it all depends how historically accurate you want to be.

That was an enjoyable story, Mr. Flying Helmut. Love the mechanics' trick. And now I shall have to purchase the book.

[malachi]

Thanks for the comments, folks!

Tim: gorgeous Stachel Pfalz! Image #5 has been corrected, thanks for catching that mislabel. Surprising number of details to track in even a cursory view of the book/movie. I agree with your assessment regarding the Dr.I as stand-in for D.VII in the movie and the Hollywood assumptions of course -- it's quite apparent but you articulated it very well. Many thanks for the historical context as well. And thanks for the "Men's Room Ace" clarification. I'd read that passage three times and somehow still missed the ground crew needle -- it's so funny I breezed right past it (edited the OP). What maneuver deck will you use with your Stachel Pfalz D.III?

Dave: your link would have saved me a lot of work lol. Thank you! Yes, the SE5a pic was merely to represent the enemy in movies... I knew many were Tiger Moths and could not recall the others. Great info.

From my perspective in creating Jasta Heidemann I will probably choose planes based on what comes to my mind when I think of certain characters rather than period of the war, which also means I'll probably stick to one plane type per character. I'll likely do 5 or 6 as:

Stachel: "movie" Pfalz D.III or D.IIIa (lozenge camo)
Heidemann: "movie" Fokker D.VII
Willi: "movie" Fokker Dr.I
Fabian: "book" green Albatros D.Va
Mueller: "book" Albatros D.Va

Other possibles: Braun D.VII (Mueller's quiet fornlorn friend and chess companion from the book), Dietrich Pfalz (rookie and another Pfalz in the mix).

Chris: CGI vs real-life fleets, for me there's not much comparison. I watched Flyboys last night, and while there are some neat effects with CGI imo it's often over-done. It's like "we have this Ferrari so we must do something over the top" resulting in maneuvers or effects that sometimes defy reality. It was an ok movie but so far I've not found any WWI movie to knock the Blue Max off the pedestal.

Our little game has prompted me to go on a tear lately of acquiring about 40 WWI books (many Osprey) and watching a number of documentaries. I've finished Somme Success, Bloody April, The Friendless Sky, Stark's Wings of War, and am starting Sagittarius Rising. So much to learn

[Stumptonian]

Great thread.

I remember seeing the movie in the theatre in 1967 - amazing in Cinemascope
(I think this must be where Nexus got their Richthofen Dr.1 scheme)

Real planes over CGI every time.
At least until the CGI ones quit flying like X-Wings ...

[Flying Helmut]

What maneuver deck will you use with your Stachel Pfalz D.III?

I've finished Somme Success, Bloody April, The Friendless Sky, Stark's Wings of War, and am starting Sagittarius Rising. So much to learn

I'll use the standard 'J' deck, unless I get tempted to drop it back to the 'G' -

<<Stachel>> "The oil pressure's still too low!"
<<Ziegel>> "Well, that's all you'll get out of her - she wasn't made yesterday!"
<<Stachel>> "Oh, is that what it is?"

Your Jasta choices make perfect sense - I look forward to seeing photos of your results!
Personally, I like a squadron to look like a squadron; well, to be an obvious group of related aircraft.
I have avoided repainting certain of the Jastas I could have tried, simply because the planes look TOO individual to my eyes (Jasta 5 for one!)
I have seen a picture somewhere of a group of beautifully painted British planes, but they look like a pack of individuals, not a Squadron - they don't share a single common appearance except for their tail stripes (no common symbol, no common colour, no common plane type, not even common roundels).
They look superb, but they don't look like a Squadron.

As for those books, I have purchased them all, but have only read Stark's "Wings of War" out of that 5-pack!
Must make more time...................................

[camelbeagle]

Chris, extremely interesting. I have only seen the movie and I loved it. I like a lot of George Peppard's work. Especially the A-Team!!!! I have never read the book. I will have to get a copy and add it to my book hoard. I think the japanese word is tsundoku. Anyways, great thread. Looks of good insight and discussion. My take is that this has some of the best WWI plane action scenes I have seen that were not CGI. The SE5a in the movie are beautiful. The markings on the German planes look awesome!

The German made The Red Baron movie from 2008 is pretty good as well. The plot is very loosely based on real life. Lot of movie liberties. If you haven't seen it I would recommend it.

[flash]

Read The Friendless Sky Tim

[malachi]

I'll use the standard 'J' deck, unless I get tempted to drop it back to the 'G' -

<<Stachel>> "The oil pressure's still too low!"
<<Ziegel>> "Well, that's all you'll get out of her - she wasn't made yesterday!"
<<Stachel>> "Oh, is that what it is?"

Your Jasta choices make perfect sense - I look forward to seeing photos of your results!
Personally, I like a squadron to look like a squadron; well, to be an obvious group of related aircraft.
I have avoided repainting certain of the Jastas I could have tried, simply because the planes look TOO individual to my eyes (Jasta 5 for one!)
I have seen a picture somewhere of a group of beautifully painted British planes, but they look like a pack of individuals, not a Squadron - they don't share a single common appearance except for their tail stripes (no common symbol, no common colour, no common plane type, not even common roundels).
They look superb, but they don't look like a Squadron.

As for those books, I have purchased them all, but have only read Stark's "Wings of War" out of that 5-pack!
Must make more time...................................

J deck it is. I will probably use an extra Ares Pfalz D.IIIa model (Voss or Hotlzem). I've yet to tackle lozenge decals but I've read a bunch of the tips here. Let's not allow technical difficulties to get in the way lol.

That scene in the movie gives me a chuckle every time. One of the few where Stachel seems to almost be a nice fellow

I enjoyed all of those books as recommended by members here, particularly The Friendless Sky, so informative and well-written. Stark's book was great. Sometimes the sensibilities of time and culture are lost on this Yank but that's part of what I like about it. Really takes you inside the daily (and sometimes inner) life of the German effort.

[malachi]

Chris, extremely interesting. I have only seen the movie and I loved it. I like a lot of George Peppard's work. Especially the A-Team!!!! I have never read the book. I will have to get a copy and add it to my book hoard. I think the japanese word is tsundoku. Anyways, great thread. Looks of good insight and discussion. My take is that this has some of the best WWI plane action scenes I have seen that were not CGI. The SE5a in the movie are beautiful. The markings on the German planes look awesome!

The German made The Red Baron movie from 2008 is pretty good as well. The plot is very loosely based on real life. Lot of movie liberties. If you haven't seen it I would recommend it.

Dan, I was seconds from calling an audible to that Red Baron movie last night... will watch soon. If you loved the Blue Max movie, I highly rec the book. It's very different in terms of plot and character development but both are very well done. I know it's the typical cop-out to not be able to choose between them but it's a close call. For me I'd give the nod to the movie but that's probably because I knew it first. And the movie cast put in some great performances, magic towel scene notwithstanding.

[camelbeagle]

Dan, I was seconds from calling an audible to that Red Baron movie last night... will watch soon. If you loved the Blue Max movie, I highly rec the book. It's very different in terms of plot and character development but both are very well done. I know it's the typical cop-out to not be able to choose between them but it's a close call. For me I'd give the nod to the movie but that's probably because I knew it first. And the movie cast put in some great performances, magic towel scene notwithstanding.

Where did you get Rudolph Stark's book at. Been trying to find that one and Willy Coppens book as well. See copies in UK, but shipping is a bit more than I would like right now.

[malachi]

Where did you get Rudolph Stark's book at. Been trying to find that one and Willy Coppens book as well. See copies in UK, but shipping is a bit more than I would like right now.

Dan, many of the bio's I read on amazon kindle to save a few bucks, but there's a hardcover one for $19, which beats the ebay prices by quite a bit at the moment: Wings of War

Or maybe you should get this signed copy of Coppens Days On the Wing

[Stumptonian]

... but there's a hardcover one for $19, which beats the ebay prices by quite a bit at the moment: Wings of War

Thanks for that link, Chris.
One more for the "to be read" pile.

[camelbeagle]

I saw the autographed Coppens. Wow! Out of my price range. Thanks for the Amazon Link!