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Thread: Dave's D8 Solo Charts

  1. #1

    Default Dave's D8 Solo Charts

    A few years ago I created a development of the Richard Bradley's solo charts & the advanced solo charts by Blackronin that use a D8 for selection and all the cards that appear in the deck, so, where there are three sideslips, or, three sharp turns in a deck, that will appear as a selection, even if only once.
    I spent a whole winter with all the decks available at the time and a large sheet of paper laboriously mapping out the three card selections for targets in each zone on the template. I really wanted to get them to work for each o'clock but that proved too difficult to achieve with the limited selection of cards, however, the double zone's of the 12 template were achievable and I could get the AI pointed in the general direction required.

    No steep cards are marked but they should be fairly obvious and are mostly taken into account in the move selections but that doesn't mean you won't have to make decisions if there's a conflict, or, one of two of the same card is steep.

    Decks with different speeds but the same manoeuvres are grouped together in one chart, others are individual due to the specific nature of certain aircraft.

    These charts have been developed and tested over the years in the OTT solo campaigns, my thanks to Gullyraker and Stumptonian for their encouragement and feedback in the process.
    I know that other pilots in OTT as well as the wider community here are using them and should there be any further developments then new versions and notifications will be posted.
    In order to facilitate that process I am creating this thread for that purpose.
    If you are using original versions it may be worth checking to see if any have been updated, some are up to v.3.

    The D8 charts are in the files section here in the Scenarios section of the WW1 file:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...p?do=cat&id=63

    Link to Richard's 1-12 Zone template: https://herkybird.tynesidewargames.c...emplateWW2.pdf

    I hope they bring some success to your solo gaming.

    Cheers Dave
    Last edited by flash; 10-22-2023 at 09:58.

    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #2

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    Most Recent Updates:

    Appear from the top.

    Dave's D8 AI Solo Chart E,I v.3 - Added 10th Jan 2023
    I have updated this chart in order to utilise the wide side slip a little more, mostly with closing targets, been meaning to do it for a while & just got round to it after my last OTT match up where being a bit slippier might have helped !
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2443


    Dave's D8 AI Solo Chart D* v.2 - Added 30th Jan 2021
    This one is individual & covers the D* Deck should anyone have need of it. It is not an official deck but a development of the D deck changing one of the sharp right turns to a sharp left in order to provide a deck thought more suitable for the Sopwith Pup than the straight D deck.
    Happily it's been found it would also be suitable for use with the Nieuport 24 & 27 !
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2730

    Dave's D8 AI Solo Chart Fr v.1 - Added 26th June 2020 (Added - 8th July 2020)
    This one is individual & covers the Fr Deck of the RAF SE.5.
    Ares added an adjusted F deck for this early, slower, version of the SE.5 family -
    This deck has so many steep moves it is difficult to cater for them in the selections. It may therefore require some I in the AI at times as many selections start or end on a steep. Not surprising as in addition to the stall cards, the sharp turns, broad side slips, and one sideslip each way are also steep. To avoid consecutive steeps all you can do is either re-roll or replace a steep with whatever is best in the situation.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2696


    Dave's D8 AI Solo Chart R(a) v.1 - Added 25th May 2020
    This one is individual & covers the R(a - for Ares) Deck should anyone have need of it.
    That's the new R deck released with Tripod's Nieuport 16's as opposed to the old Nexus one which is already catered for in the B,J,R chart.
    Ares added a pair of non-steep broad side-slips to this deck, which the original Nexus deck did not have.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2684


    How To Use Dave's D8 AI Solo Charts v.1 - Added 19th March 2020
    I added a page to provide some explanation of how to use the charts, hopefully this brief document will help.
    I have produced it in Word so that you may change font/size/colour as you deem fit for your needs.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2659
    Last edited by flash; 02-01-2023 at 08:41. Reason: Links added

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #3

    Default How To Use Dave's D8 AI Solo Charts:

    If my document seems unclear to you then I have tried to explain the thinking behind what is written as it may not be obvious to all. I have put these in quotes beneath the relevant part of the document.
    That appear like this !
    These are a development of the Richard Bradley's solo charts & the advanced solo charts by 'Blackronin' that use a D8 for selection and all the cards that appear in the deck.
    To use them you will need Richard's 1-12 zone template
    https://herkybird.tynesidewargames.co.uk/wofg.html -
    https://herkybird.tynesidewargames.c...emplateWW2.pdf -
    This is his original 12 zone template, the WW1 rules now has the newer 6 zone template.
    1. Select the movement cards for the aircraft you are flying first.
    To avoid temptation of God like prescience over your AI pilots
    2. Now select the cards for the AI aircraft, starting with those on your side, if any:
    For the same reason as above !
    Determine which aircraft is it's target - ie. the closest target, the biggest threat, the objective of the scenario, the easiest meat... whatever is the most appropriate criteria at the time.
    Criteria may differ for every aircraft in a game and may change as a game develops - a bomber will want to get straight to a target then head home - a fighting scout will want to chase/engage an escort, or, may want to pass an escort and engage a tandem
    Use the zone template with the AI aircraft's base to determine which sector it's target will be in on the first card of the next turn - presuming that card will be a straight.
    If you fly to where it might be, or likely to be heading you stand a better chance of getting a shot than if you fly to where it was before the first manoeuvre. This is predictive play. eg when head to head with the target at close range it is likely that it will be in the AI's six o'clock on the first card of the next turn not the 12-1 as it stands when the cards are selected.
    Top Tip: I often use the template in front of the base of the AI to facilitate the selection so the position of the target is relative to where the AI will be on it's first card - also presumed to be a straight.
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    Here, I've selected my aircraft's cards & am now selecting my AI wingman's cards - the target will be in zone 4-5 and I've rolled a 1 for his chart selection. The result will be the same if you fitted the template around the base. I've found the type of placement shown tends to work better at longer ranges, around the base suits the shorter ranges.
    Decide if the target is closing on, or, moving away from the AI, or, if the AI is over running the target.
    The latter consideration is for AI that are faster than their target & is treated as Closing - after all - we get the chance to select a stall to keep a target under our guns, so why not the AI ?!
    Select the relevant manoeuvre chart for aircraft's deck and roll a D8 - check the chart, selecting the three cards from the deck indicated by the result in the relevant sector.

    As we like to use special damage then make any necessary adjustment to the three cards suggested that is required by such damage the AI aircraft may have received.
    i.e. substitute: stalls when engine damaged; turns/sideslips for straights when on fire; straights for sideslips/turns when rudder damaged.
    This should be fairly straight forward
    No steep cards are marked on the charts but should be fairly obvious and are taken into account where possible in the move selections on the chart. However, should a consecutive steep be selected by the roll for the next planning phase, either roll again, or, replace with whatever is best for the given situation.
    The most obvious steep is the stall of course, though with the L & X decks there are non steep 'stalls' the middle one should be the non steep one in this case of appearance between steeps. Of course there are other steep cards that turn up in certain decks - sharp turns, broad sideslips, sideslips and that dirty little short turn in the L deck so keep an eye out for them !
    One other thing - if you finish a set on an Immelmann and the next selection first card is not a straight you must substitute it with one - I then usually use the first two cards of the selection as the final cards of the set.
    Should you want to be adventurous - If the AI turn finishes on a straight and the next selection is the full three card Immelmann turn and it suits then play the Immelmann card straight off and select a suitable third card. That tends to liven things up a bit !

    Overall advice is:
    Be the I in AI and do whatever is best for the aircraft in the situation.
    'cos it makes for a better game !
    Last edited by flash; 07-28-2020 at 02:20.

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

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    Thanks for the update. I cannot find the Fr file. I have been using these with the solo template available in the aerodrome store. Works well!

  5. #5

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    Dave's D8 AI Solo Chart Fr v.1 - Added 26th June 2020 (Currently in moderation Queue)
    Have to wait for a while Dan.

  6. #6

    Thumbs up

    Thanks Dave! I have been using your D8 charts from their inception in all my OTT games & they work a treat.
    Sure occasionally you need to put the I in AI especially to stop a plane flying off the mat. & keep aware when you need a straight the next turn after an Immleman.

  7. #7

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    many happy hours flying with the solo charts. Every now and then you go "what are you doing?" only for a couple of moves later, it's put the plane in a perfect spot (usually to shoot me down lol) Ta Everso Dave

  8. #8

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    Thanks Iain, it still surprises me sometimes & I've been bested by the AI many times.
    Hopefully the Fr deck will get out of the queue soon.

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #9

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    Your AI decks do a good job! Makes for a challenge!

  10. #10

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    I thought I'd try my hand at a solo game, and Dave kindly answered a couple questions. Took a couple SS D.III vs a pair of SE5a. If this mini-AAR belongs elsewhere, no worries, but I thought it was a comical record of my first battle Rules worked great!

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  11. #11

  12. #12

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    Not entirely sure which side you were on Chris but looks like a lot of damage was handed out so it seems to have worked well for you, or, not as the case may be ! Glad you had fun with it though.

    "He is wise who watches"

  13. #13

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    Unfortunately SkyNet won, I was in the SS D.IIIs. I attempted revenge with Camels vs. Dr.Is, may try to post that later lol.

  14. #14

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    Fr deck is out of the mod Q...

    "He is wise who watches"

  15. #15

  16. #16

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    Thanks, Dave, for the How to Use page. I had some of the charts ready to use a while back but wasn't quite sure what to do with the 7 and 8 columns. Now I understand. While I don't have a D8, I have worked out how to use instead my D20 that I bought as a souvenir at CanCon in January.

  17. #17

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    Nice one Doug, hopefully you can pick up a D8 next time !

    "He is wise who watches"

  18. #18

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    I've got a quick question on the "How-to" document. This passage:

    "Use the zone template on the AI aircraft's base to determine which sector it's target will be in on the first card of the next turn - presuming that card will be a straight"

    Who's first card is that referring to? Assume the target's first card is a straight? The AI plane's first card is a straight? Both?

    Thanks!
    Max

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMad17 View Post
    I've got a quick question on the "How-to" document. This passage:

    "Use the zone template on the AI aircraft's base to determine which sector it's target will be in on the first card of the next turn - presuming that card will be a straight"

    Who's first card is that referring to? Assume the target's first card is a straight? The AI plane's first card is a straight? Both?

    Thanks!
    Max
    Max, as I understand it, it's the target's first card, although the target is not obliged to play a straight of course, you're just using it to determine the AI aircraft's actions. You place the template on the AI aircraft and a "hypothetical" straight card in front of its target (presumably a human-controlled plane), determine the sector threat on the template then roll to determine movement cards for the AI aircraft depending on whether they are opening or closing the gap between them.

  20. #20

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    Thanks for all the work on these solo rules, with the current state of the world solo rules for Wings of War are more importantly than ever.

  21. #21

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    Very nicely done!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMad17 View Post
    I've got a quick question on the "How-to" document. This passage:
    "Use the zone template on the AI aircraft's base to determine which sector it's target will be in on the first card of the next turn - presuming that card will be a straight"
    Who's first card is that referring to? Assume the target's first card is a straight? The AI plane's first card is a straight? Both?
    Chris has it right Max, it's the target, whether that be human, or, another AI controlled model.

    "He is wise who watches"

  23. #23

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    Got it, thanks for the clarification gentlemen!

  24. #24

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    I have added my explanation of the How to use doc into post #3 in the hope it clarifies things a bit. If anyone still has any questions PM me.

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #25

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    I've added a new D8 AI Chart to the pile - it's currently in the mod Q - for the D* deck, a modification of the D deck for use specifically with the Sopwith Pup.

    This is nothing new, it has been discussed and implemented by several members over the years.. all work is theirs, I'm just facilitating a solo chart.
    This is one of the best discussions on it - I have linked to the deck page if you want to give it a run:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...l=1#post254394

    And another one:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...37-Sopwith-Pup

    Details in Recent Updates - post #2. Fly Happy !
    Last edited by flash; 01-31-2021 at 03:54.

    "He is wise who watches"

  26. #26

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    Dave's D8 AI Solo Chart D* v.2 is up and out of the mod Q for those interested.

    "He is wise who watches"

  27. #27

  28. #28

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Fly Happy
    ICWUDT

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I spent a whole winter with all the decks available at the time and a large sheet of paper laboriously mapping out the three card selections for targets in each zone on the template.
    Huge work, I admire your patience, Dave.
    I have just started playing solo WGF and I'm having fun experimenting with the various variants produced over the years. Need some tips about your D8 charts.

    Compared to the Blackronin charts you dropped the near/far condition. I noticed that in mode "closing" some selections deliver an Immelmann (e.g. N-deck 12/1). This does not seem appropriate when the target is far away as this may place the target in the AI's back . Am I missing some unwritten recommendation, such as "do straights/use opening as long as distance is more than x rulers"?

    Being used to the WGS App where heading is set with two clock wheels, in some situations I struggle to judge if the target is closing or moving away. Also I'm not sure if closing/opening refers to the current or to the predictive position.

    2 examples:

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    Statically, the situation suggests that T1 is about to pass AI, would mean "moving away", on the other hand, AI and T1 are converging to a cross-point, would "closing" be better?
    Opposite situation for T2.

    Thanks for any advice

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokusai View Post
    ... I noticed that in mode "closing" some selections deliver an Immelmann (e.g. N-deck 12/1). This does not seem appropriate when the target is far away as this may place the target in the AI's back..
    Even when your planes start at opposite ends of a mat they are usually 'closing' but I wouldn't expect anyone to select that option in this case. Closing, to me, is the target potentially closing to within shooting range and sometimes, where necessary, the AI closing on a target (especially if it is faster than the target).
    Obviously this can vary depending on the speed of each of the planes involved as a slow machine might not get within range, whereas, the fastest types certainly will. However, with the closing speeds involved the immels work more often than not but it's down to your judgement - as always, being the I in AI & doing what's best for the AI is what makes it work best.

    In your superb diagram - use it predictively.
    AI and T1 are converging so "closing" would be better.
    AI & T2 will be passing so "opening" fits the bill.

    "He is wise who watches"

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Closing, to me, is the target potentially closing to within shooting range and sometimes, where necessary, the AI closing on a target (especially if it is faster than the target).
    Thanks for the explanation, that was my misunderstanding. I interpreted "closing" as moving towards AI, regardless of the distance.
    I tried it out today, works fine.

  33. #33

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    not sure if this is WW1 or 2 but here goes. Dave's d8 charts are brilliant and I use them regularly. Having dipped my toes (ankles, lower calves, knees) into WW2, I'm looking for a WW2 equivalent. Somewhere on here is a U shaped template, which I assume you could use with dice to plot your AI course. Is that an in house development or where? Just trying to figure out solo WW2 play.

    Ta Iain

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by camel crew View Post
    not sure if this is WW1 or 2 but here goes. Dave's d8 charts are brilliant and I use them regularly. Having dipped my toes (ankles, lower calves, knees) into WW2, I'm looking for a WW2 equivalent. Somewhere on here is a U shaped template, which I assume you could use with dice to plot your AI course. Is that an in house development or where? Just trying to figure out solo WW2 play.Ta Iain
    Richard Bradley (Herkbird) produced solo rules for WW2, Iain, take a look at his blog - https://herkybird.tynesidewargames.co.uk/wofg.html - it uses the same template.
    Alternately have a look at Joaquim's Universal Solo Diceless WW2 Chart - I don't know where it's kept but I'm sure one of the WW2 wallah's can point you in the right direction. Here's the link to the thread about it. He did one for WW1 too & Teaticket even worked out a dice version for it.
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...19679-Epiphany!!!

    "He is wise who watches"

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by camel crew View Post
    not sure if this is WW1 or 2 but here goes. Dave's d8 charts are brilliant and I use them regularly. Having dipped my toes (ankles, lower calves, knees) into WW2, I'm looking for a WW2 equivalent. Somewhere on here is a U shaped template, which I assume you could use with dice to plot your AI course. Is that an in house development or where? Just trying to figure out solo WW2 play.

    Ta Iain
    Joaquim's Universal Solo Diceless can be found here
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2032

    The dice version
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...o=file&id=2656

    Btw, have you tried out the App? I found it really speeds up operations. On the negative side, however, it is less flexible and makes it harder to use own rules.
    I wonder on which charts the App is based on.

  36. #36

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    Thanks Fabrizio. All downloaded, now to print them off. I've got an old phone that doesn't take kindly to all these new fangled App thingies

  37. #37

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    Links to the 'recent updates' page in post #2 added.

    "He is wise who watches"

  38. #38

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    Link to the 'recent updates' page in post #2 added for Dave's D8 AI Solo Chart E,I v.3 - Added 10th Jan 2023.
    Happy hunting !

    "He is wise who watches"

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokusai View Post
    ..Btw, have you tried out the App? ... I wonder on which charts the App is based on.
    I believe it uses both Richard's and Joaquim's basic rules charts, iirc. Personally I find charts much quicker and, as you say, more flexible.

    "He is wise who watches"

  40. #40

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    Following Teaticket's recent experience it would appear that the D* deck used for the Sopwith Pup would be appropriate for both the Nieuport 24 and Nieuport 27 aircraft which were given the F deck in the unofficial stats but belong in the slower average speed bracket (3.5cm) rather than the fast speed bracket (4.7cm) of the F deck.
    Last edited by flash; 02-02-2023 at 09:24.

    "He is wise who watches"



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