Ares Games
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: More Spitballing: Brainstorming Squadron Packs for WGF

  1. #1

    Default More Spitballing: Brainstorming Squadron Packs for WGF

    As with similar recent threads, this is private Advance Research not to be construed as anything official, though if we can come up with some promising ideas I will be forwarding this to Ares as a product proposal--similar work over at the Anchorage led to the fourth wave of Sales.

    In light of Ares serving up apply-your-own-markings Squadron Packs and them apparently becoming the "road forward" (not official declaration but just gut impression) for WGS, it occurred to me that something similar could work for WWI, under a few conditions--I'm not sure what the practical limits are for a plane decal, but here's some standards I would suggest trying to ID potential WGF Squadron Pack candidates:
    1. Must be a squadron/aircraft combination that already has had one release, to fill out a Flight or Kette.
    2. Squadron markings must be highly standardized, only differing between aircraft in easily-decaled ways.
    3. Target goal is five sets of markings per decal sheet; all must have same-period national markings (i.e., not mixing Iron and Balkan Crosses for Germany).
    4. Camo Nieuports and SPADs are problematic because of a wide range of variations in the same basic color patterns; yellow SPADs and silver Nieuports are pretty much "could do most AC of same type w/1 base paint just by changing decals.


    I've started going back through my Osprey library, and come up with a few starts, but would appreciate you guys helping add to it, sort out "in bounds" vs "too far different" and suggest units that might make good "opposing pairs." (I'm toying with another idea here too, leverage the Duel Pack layout but replace the Quick Play rules with a historical booklet about the squadrons in the pack at the time they flew those planes.) I'm describing these by "WGF-C4xx" numbers, derived from WGS's 400-series being its Squadron Packs, "C" meaning Concept to differentiate it from the official SKU's and the last two digits being the same as the WGF100-series sculpt it's based on. Letter suffix matches the squadron of existing Ares releases, except suffixes like "XA, XB, ..." which are Nexus decoes not yet reissued. "DP" suffix refers to Deluxe/Duel Packs. EDIT: At first, I wasn't sure how to tackle the Medium and Large Packs, but ith the slowing of the line I'm thinking to allocate C400-C439 to 100-series scouts, C440-C479 to 200-series tandems and C480-C499 for the heavies.

    Series 1
    WGF101/C401 SPAD XIII:
    • C401A USAAS 94th Aero Sq.
    • C401B French AM, Esc. uncertain (Coadou)
    • C401C French AM, Esc. uncertain (Madon)
    • C401D/C401XB French AM, Esc. SPA103
    • C401E French AM, Esc. uncertain (Chavannes)
    • C401XA Italian RE, 91a Sq.
    • C401DP USAAS 27th Aero Sq.

    NOTE: Camo schemes are problematic, but most "yellow base" SPADs could easily be done as the same unmarked base-deco and just supply decals for national/unit/personal markings, only needing to swap the decal sheet to go from French to Italian to Russian.
    WGF102/C402 Sopwith Camel:
    • C402A UK RFC, No. 66 Sq
    • C402B UK RNAS, No. 3 Naval Sq
    • C402C UK RFC, Sq uncertain (Stackard)
    • C402D - "Null SKU," this is the Kissenberth capture
    • C402E UK RFC, Sq uncertain (MacLaren)
    • C402XA Belgian AM, 9 EC
    • C402DP UK RAF, No. 209 Sq

    NOTE: As with the yellow SPADS, PC10 over CDL is near universal. Same note about how many different nations could be served with the same basic mini and different cockade decals.
    WGF103/C403 Albatros D.Va
    • C403A German LSK, Jasta 37
    • C403B German LSK, Jasta uncertain (von Hippel)
    • C403C German LSK, Jasta uncertain (Jacobs)
    • C403D German LSK, Jasta 84
    • C403E German LSK, Jasta 11 - Red nose spinner-to-cockpit/struts/UC
    • C403XC German LSK, Jasta 61
    • C403DP German LSK, Jasta 5 - Red-edged Green tailgroup
    • No SKU Yet: Jasta 04 - Natural fuse w/black spiral
    • No SKU Yet: Jasta 06 - Black/White stripes, tailplane and lower wing
    • No SKU Yet: Jasta 13 - Green spinner/cowl, Blue fuselage
    • No SKU Yet: Jasta 15 - Red spinner/cowl, Blue fuselage/fin
    WGF104/C404 Fokker Dr.I
    • C404A German LSK, JG nr I - unique to MvR
    • C404B German LSK, Jasta uncertain (von Hippel)
    • C404C German LSK, Jasta uncertain (Jacobs)
    • C404D German LSK, Jasta 84
    • C404E German LSK, Jasta 11
    • C404XC German LSK, Jasta 61
    • C404DP German LSK, Jasta 11 - closer to "base" Jasta markings
    • No SKU Yet: Jasta 04 - Natural fuse w/black spiral
    • No SKU Yet: Jasta 06 - Black/White stripes, tailplane and lower wing
    • No SKU Yet: Jasta 13 - Green spinner/cowl, Blue fuselage

    Series 2
    WGF115/C415 Fokker D.VII
    • 415A - "Null SKU" - unique to Goering
    • 415B German MFT, MJG I
    • 415C German LSK, Jasta 35
    • 415XB German LSK, Jasta 15
    • 415XC German LSK, Jasta 4 - major redesign, old WOW115C zebra-stripes unique to Kirschstein/Udet
    WGF116/C416 Sopwith Snipe
    • 416A UK RAF, No. 201 Sq
    • 416B UK/Rus. Joint Forces - "Null SKU," unique to Kazakov
    • 416C Soviet VVS - "Null SKU," unique to Sapozhnikov
    • 416XB and 416XC Australian FC, No. 4 Sq
    WGF203/C443 LFG Roland C.II
    • 443A German LSK, Kampfstaffel 8
    • 443B German LSK, unit uncertain
    • 443C German LSK, FFA 292b
    • 443XB German LSK, FFA 5b
    • 443XC German LSK, unit uncertain (generic?)
    WGF204/C444 AIRCO DH4
    • 444A USAAS 50th Obs. Sq.
    • 444B UK RNAS, unit uncertain (Cotton/Betts)
    • 444C UK RNAS, No. 5 Naval Sq
    • 444XA UK RFC, No 18 Sq
    • 444XB USMC, unit uncertain
    • 444XC UK RAF, No 212 Sq

    Series 3
    WGF117/C417 Nieuport 17
    • 417A Italian RE, 70a Sq.
    • 417B/XB French AM, Esc. N65
    • 417C & 417XA French AM, Esc. N124 Lafayette
    • 417XC Russian IVF, 22 KAO
    WGF118/C418 Albatros D.III (early squaretail)
    • 418A German LSK, Jasta 2/Boelcke - "Null SKU", overall blue is unique to Frommherz
    • 418B A-H LFT, Flik 41J
    • 418C German LSK, Jasta 11 - "Null SKU," overall red unique to MvR
    • 418XA A-H LFT, Flik 41J - "Null SKU," overall red unique to Brumowski
    • 418XB A-H LFT, Flik 61J
    • 418XC German LSK, Jasta 2/Boelcke
    WGF205/C445 UFAG C.I
    • 445A A-H LFT, unit unk (w/n 161-37)
    • 445B A-H LFT, Flik 62S
    • 445C A-H LFT, unit unknown (w/n 161-138)
    • 445XA A-H LFT, Flik 23D
    • 445XB A-H LFT, unit unknown (lozenge)
    • 445XC A-H LFT, unit unknown (camo)
    WGF206/C446 RAF RE.8
    • 446A UK RFC, No. 30 Sq
    • 446B UK RFC, No. 52 Sq
    • 446C UK RFC, No. 59 Sq
    • 446XA UK RFC, No. 4 Sq
    • 446XB UK RFC, No. 16 Sq
    • 446XC Belgian AM, unit unknown

    Series 4
    WGF123/C423 Pfalz D.III
    • 423A German LSK, Jasta uncertain (Berthold)
    • 423B German LSK, Jasta 16b
    • 423C German LSK, Jasta uncertain (Voss)
    • 423XA German LSK, Jasta 21s
    • 423XC German LSK, Jasta 10
    WGF124/C424 RAF SE.5a
    • 424A UK RFC, No. 85 Sq
    • 424B UK RFC, No. 40 Sq
    • 424C UK RFC, sq uncertain (McCudden)
    • 424XC USAAS, 25th Aero Sq.
    WGF211/C451 Rumpler C.IV
    • 451A German LSK, FA 7
    • 451B German LSK, FA(a) 235
    • 451C German LSK, unit uncertain (Ziegert)
    • 451XA German MFT, MFFA 2 (night camo)
    • 451XB German LSK, unit uncertain (lozenge)
    • 451XC German LSK, unit uncertain (camo)
    WGF212/C452 Breguet Br.14A2/B2
    • 452A French AM, Esc. BR111
    • 452B French AM, Esc. uncertain (Audinot)
    • 452C/XC USAAS, 96th Aero Sq.
    • 452XA French AM, Esc. BR107
    • 452XB French AM, Esc. BR129

    Series 5
    WGF105/C405 Fokker E.III WGF106/C406 Halberstadt D.III
    WGF107/C407 Morane-Saulnier N WGF108/C408 AIRCO DH.2

    Series 6
    WGF109/C409 Hanriot HD1 WGF110/C410 Aviatik D.I
    WGF111/C411 Sopwith Triplane WGF112/C412 Siemens-Schuckert D.III

    Series 7
    WGF113/C413 SPAD VII WGF114/C414 Albatros D.II
    WGF201/C441 Bristol F2B WGF202/C442 Halberstadt CL.II

    Series 8
    WGF119/C419 Fokker E.V/D.VIII WGF120/C420 Nieuport 28
    WGF207/C447 Macchi M.5 WGF208/C448 Hannover CL.IIIa

    Series 9
    WGF121/C421 Phoenix D.I WGF122/C422 Nieuport 11
    WGF209/C449 Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter WGF210/C450 Albatros C.III



    I'll finish building this out with the table framework and Series 2-9 later; right now I want to get this up and "safe" so I can take a break, but you can see how I'm starting to think.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 05-27-2020 at 16:56.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  2. #2

    Default

    Awesome work. You could also do the yellow SPAD VII in several schemes. SPA3 Storks or Esc. Lafayette for example. Lots of Fokker VII squadron potential as well. American SE5a 25th squadron would be an easy one as well. But, I am sure we all have our wish lists. You have picked some great planes and have some awesome suggestions.

    I would buy squadron packs of all of them!

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    Awesome work. You could also do the yellow SPAD VII in several schemes. SPA3 Storks or Esc. Lafayette for example. Lots of Fokker VII squadron potential as well. American SE5a 25th squadron would be an easy one as well. But, I am sure we all have our wish lists. You have picked some great planes and have some awesome suggestions.

    I would buy squadron packs of all of them!
    Yup, my note on "yellow SPADs" covers all models. Same is true of silver Nieuports... It's the camouflaged French-made birds that are the real nightmare, for "factory baseline" German camo patterns even the later lozenges were pretty consistent.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  4. #4

    Default

    Great work, DB!

    One small thing - you can remove "No SKU Yet: Jasta 15 - Red spinner/cowl, Blue fuselage/fin" - they never had Dr.1s in this scheme.
    When Berthold swapped Jasta 15 and 18 personnel and numbers, the green Jasta 15 Dr.1s were discarded/rehomed as replacements for other Jastas.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  5. #5

    Default

    As always, if anyone can help with squadron ID's I'd appreciate the help, that was some of the blanks I've never been able to finish filling in on the Checklist. (Speaking of, if you want to help the link's in my signature in red text; I always welcome feedback, suggestions and ideas for improvement.)
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  6. #6

    Default

    French SPAD XIIIs for Escadrille 94 would work. All you need are different numbers. One for top plane surface and a smaller pair for the fuselage sides.

    Name:  94a.jpg
Views: 162
Size:  72.8 KB

  7. #7

    Default

    True, but then you get into that nasty "no two alike" camo.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  8. #8

    Default

    Perhaps Ares could re-issue the Sopwith Triplane models with correct wing spacings and provide decals for 'B' Flight No. 10 Squadron R.N.A.S. - the famous "Black Flight".

    The aircraft of Black Flight were christened with suitable names. Ellis Reid, of Toronto, flew Black Roger; J. E. Sharman, of Winnipeg, flew Black Death; Gerry Nash, of Hamilton, called his machine Black Sheep; and William Melville (Mel) Alexander, of Toronto, christened his plane the Black Prince. The flight commander, Raymond Collishaw, flew a machine which gloried in the name Black Maria.

    Do you envisage the decals going as far as providing the different serial numbers?

  9. #9

    Default

    Boney, are you sockpuppeting? Like I said, if they won't fix badly undersize ships in Sails it's a safe bet a Tripe rework is not happening unless you have enough in your back pocket to pony up the entire retool cost; their new engineer seems rather obstinate about being unwilling or unable to either fix things or admit mistakes.

    Bear in mind, I haven't gotten the existing catalog fed in entirely yet, but Black Flight is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was thinking of, and yes I do envision different serials where possible--I'm thinking of a clear-background decal to cover the entire aircraft side, wing or fin/rudder for ease of alignment.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 05-25-2020 at 21:37.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  10. #10

    Default

    Do to the fact I just saw a Wings of Glory WWII P-51 Mustang sell for $189.50 on Ebay over the weekend tells me that there is still a very hungry market for planes out there. There are a lot of people like Diamondback putting a lot of good work that Ares should be doing themselves. It completely stuns me that Ares isn't willing to get it into gear and keeps some product rolling consistently.

  11. #11

    Default

    wow camelbeagle, that's a lot of money for one plane

  12. #12

    Default

    That is kinda of what I thought. If people are willing to pay $100 plus for a plane there is a strong market out there. Been seeing a lot of Fokker sell for some major dollars as well.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    Do to the fact I just saw a Wings of Glory WWII P-51 Mustang sell for $189.50 on Ebay over the weekend tells me that there is still a very hungry market for planes out there. There are a lot of people like Diamondback putting a lot of good work that Ares should be doing themselves. It completely stuns me that Ares isn't willing to get it into gear and keeps some product rolling consistently.
    Dan, it's not so much WILLING as ABLE--Ares is a VERY small company in both head-count and financial capital, take a look at the main office on Google Maps/Street View.
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ar...05!4d10.265054

    Getting ANYTHING made takes capital to fund it, and at any given time they have WGF, WGS, Sails, BSG, War of the Ring and a crapload of board games all competing for the same very limited bucket of funding to get made with. Unfortunately, shows like Essen Spiel the buyers don't care so much about your existing lines as your Next Big Thing... which means boardgames drive the bus there, and if Ares wants to keep the monkeys at Universal Licensing off their backs that means BSG has to be their flagship product on minis. (Never mind that Universal's licensing division is run by people who lack the competence to wipe their own arses...)
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  14. #14

    Default

    Diamondback. I completely understand. I think I am venting off a bit. It frustrates me when a game still has this much support from the gamers, and not so much from the producers.

  15. #15

    Default

    I feel your pain, brother. Believe me, we all do... Frankly, had they asked me I would have advised they *not* pursue the BSG license--Galactica is kind of a niche/cult fandom, and both the 800# gorillas of sci-fi have 800# gorillas of gaming behind them (Star Wars/FFG, Star Trek/NECA Wizkids) so it doesn't make a lot of sense going toe-to-toe in that arena, plus they're never gonna be big enough to give FFG the punch in the nose it deserves for screwing Andrea over on the X-Wing development deal and other dirty dealings around the collapse of Nexus.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    Do to the fact I just saw a Wings of Glory WWII P-51 Mustang sell for $189.50 on Ebay over the weekend tells me that there is still a very hungry market for planes out there. There are a lot of people like Diamondback putting a lot of good work that Ares should be doing themselves. It completely stuns me that Ares isn't willing to get it into gear and keeps some product rolling consistently.


    i cant figure the wings of glory market. some desirable minis sit around until they get put on clearance (including the fokker d7 and eindecher among others) and then they sell out, become unobtainium and go for crazy prices.



Similar Missions

  1. Dornier 17 & Ju 88 Listed in Squadron Packs on Ares Website
    By Redhugh in forum WGS: General Discussions
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 07-25-2020, 15:19
  2. New Squadron Packs
    By PKHansma in forum Officer's Club
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-25-2019, 00:06
  3. WWI Squadron packs?
    By Baxter in forum WGF: General Discussions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-14-2017, 15:09
  4. National: BoB Squadron Packs
    By Setarius in forum US Wing
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-21-2017, 11:21
  5. Wish list - squadron packs
    By bgeipel in forum WGF: General Discussions
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 08-24-2016, 07:45

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •